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Why the Apocryphal Books Rejected as Scripture.

ozso

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You can always start over and PROVE my initial comment is wrong.
Those who initially said the 27 books of the NT are inspired text and gave us 46 books of the OT, are not the only Christians over the centuries who have determined what's inspired and what's not. In the case of Catholocism there's a system of government to make such decisions, and unless an elaborate council is held that position won't change. What Catholics conclude individually doesn't count for anything. Even what a Pope concludes doesn't matter if it's ex cathedra. There's probably been many Catholic scholars who have concluded that Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, I and II Maccabees are apocrypha, but that doesn't matter because an official council wasn't held.
 
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ozso

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Catholics are taught that Tobit, Judith, Baruch, Wisdom, Sirach (Ecclesiasticus), first and second Maccabees, complete Esther, and complete Daniel are inspired scripture, which does make them special.
I said extra special.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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I said extra special.
Yes, is sacred scripture not extra special to you also? I am sure that it is. What God has given and made holy is special to all who love and serve him. It is our food for life, the table of the word. And with the table of the Holy Eucharist we, all his children, are nourished and satisfied until he comes again. It is advent season, a season when we look back towards the nativity of our Lord, Jesus Christ, and we look forward to his second coming, when all our hopes and all his promises will be fulfilled. This is the faith of the Church.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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There's probably been many Catholic scholars who have concluded that Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, I and II Maccabees are apocrypha, but that doesn't matter because an official council wasn't held.
It was six councils and possibly as many as eight; there was the council of Hippo, and of Rome, and the first in Carthage, and the second in Carthage, and the council of Flornce, and the council of Trent, the first Vatican council (by affirming the council of Trent), and the Second Vatican council.
 
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ozso

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It was six councils and possibly as many as eight; there was the council of Hippo, and or Rome, and the first in Carthage, and the second in Carthage, and the council of Flornce, and the council of Trent, the first Vatican council (by affirming the council of Trent), and the Second Vatican council.
In dialing though that a little this tidbit from Britanica popped up for some reason:

401 the fifth Council of Carthage decreed excommunication for anyone who attended performances on holy days. Actors were forbidden the sacraments unless they gave up their profession, a decree not rescinded in many places until the 18th century.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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Oh my such clever repartee.
Christ, our Lord, advised his servants, "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."*, one must follow the Lord and be wise. Besides, God is good and worthy of all praise. And his praise is not like the wisdom of man, not clever words and philosophies. He is our God and let us with sincerity of heart walk with him and praise him and everything.

* Matthew 10:16
 
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ozso

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Christ, our Lord, advised his servants, "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."*, one must follow the Lord and be wise. Besides, God is good and worthy of all praise. And his praise is not like the wisdom of man, not clever words and philosophies. He is our God and let us with sincerity of heart walk with him and praise him and everything.

* Matthew 10:16
That post was mistakenly placed which is why I deleted it.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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In dialing though that a little this tidbit from Britanica popped up for some reason:

401 the fifth Council of Carthage decreed excommunication for anyone who attended performances on holy days. Actors were forbidden the sacraments unless they gave up their profession, a decree not rescinded in many places until the 18th century.
Could you provide the link for this quote?
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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I mean treated as extra special within the scope of OT books.
But these books, Tobit, Judith, Baruch, 1 & 2 Maccabees, Wisdom, Ecclesiastes, Esther, and Daniel, are part of the Old Testament and as such are special because they are inspired. That is their proper place. That is the extent of their "specialness".
 
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ozso

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ozso

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But these books, Tobit, Judith, Baruch, 1 & 2 Maccabees, Wisdom, Ecclesiastes, Esther, and Daniel, are part of the Old Testament and as such are special because they are inspired. That is their proper place. That is the extent of their "specialness".
I'm referring to how often I've read Catholics emphasizing that those particular seven books are in their bible. They make quite a big deal out of it pretty frequently in my experience.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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I'm referring to how often I've read Catholics emphasizing that those particular seven books are in their bible. They make quite a big deal out of it pretty frequently in my experience.
That is more "hearsay" of a sort, unless you care to link to the places you say exist.
 
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Always in His Presence

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Don Stewart does a masterful job in describing why the Apocryphal books were rejected.

There are doctrines and practices contained in the Apocrypha that are contrary to what the Scripture teaches. They include the following.​
They Teach A Person Is Saved By Works​
In the Apocrypha proof texts can be found to support the Roman Catholic doctrine of justification by human works and not faith alone. The Apocrypha contains the following verses.​
For almsgiving saves from death and purges away every sin. Those who give alms will enjoy a full life (Tobit 12:9).​
In another place in Tobit it says.​
So now, my children see what almsgiving accomplishes, and what injustice does it brings death! (Tobit 14:11).​
In the Book of First Maccabees it says.​
Was not Abraham found faithful when tested, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness (First Maccabees 2:52).​
The Bible, on the other hand, says that a person is saved by grace through faith. It is not based upon our good works.​
For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God - not the result of works, so that no one may boast (Ephesians 2:8,9).​
The Non-biblical Doctrine Of Purgatory Is Taught In The Apocrypha​
The doctrine of purgatory - a place of purging between heaven and hell - is taught in the Apocrypha. It says.​
So they all blessed the ways of the Lord, the righteous judge, who reveals the things that are hidden; and they turned to supplication, praying that the sin that had been committed might be wholly blotted out. The noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened as the result of the sin of those who had fallen. He also took up a collection, man by man, to the amount of two thousand drachmas of silver, and sent it to Jerusalem to provide for a sin offering. In doing this he acted very well and honorably, taking account of the resurrection. For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, so that they might be delivered from their sin (Second Maccabees 12:41-45).​
The Bible teaches that, upon death, one either goes to be with the Lord or is sent away from Him - there is no middle place. The writer to the Hebrews stated.​
Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment (Hebrews 9:27).​
According To The Apocrypha God Hears The Prayers Of The Dead​
We find the Book of Baruch teaching that God hears the prayers of those who have died.​
O Lord Almighty, God of Israel, hear now the prayer of the dead of Israel, the children of those who sinned before you, who did not heed the voice of the Lord their God, so that calamities have clung to us (Baruch 3:4).​
The dead do not pray for the living. Only the living upon the earth pray for the other living ones on the earth.​
The Apocrypha Teaches The Pre-existence Of Souls​
The doctrine of the pre-existence of souls is found in the Apocrypha.​
As a child I was naturally gifted, and a good soul fell to my lot; or rather, being good, I entered an undefiled body (Wisdom 8:19,20).​
Scripture does not teach that souls have any existence before they are united into a body.​
It Teaches Creation Out Of Pre-Existent Matter​
The doctrine of creation out of pre-existent matter is taught in the Apocrypha.​
For your all-powerful hand, which created the world out of formless matter, did not lack the means to send upon them a multitude of bears, or bold lions (Wisdom 11:17).​
The Bible says that God's creation was out of nothing.​
By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible (Hebrews 11:3).​
The Apocrypha Say The Body Weighs Down The Soul​
The idea of the body as a weight upon the soul is found in the Apocrypha.​
For a perishable body weighs down the soul, and this earthy tent burdens the thoughtful mind (Wisdom 9:15).​
The idea that the body weighs down the soul is not biblical - the body is not evil.​
All of these doctrines are contrary to the teaching of Holy Scripture.​
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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Dei Verbum,

CHAPTER IV
THE OLD TESTAMENT


14. In carefully planning and preparing the salvation of the whole human race the God of infinite love, by a special dispensation, chose for Himself a people to whom He would entrust His promises. First He entered into a covenant with Abraham (see Gen. 15:18) and, through Moses, with the people of Israel (see Ex. 24:8). To this people which He had acquired for Himself, He so manifested Himself through words and deeds as the one true and living God that Israel came to know by experience the ways of God with men. Then too, when God Himself spoke to them through the mouth of the prophets, Israel daily gained a deeper and clearer understanding of His ways and made them more widely known among the nations (see Ps. 21:29; 95:1-3; Is. 2:1-5; Jer. 3:17). The plan of salvation foretold by the sacred authors, recounted and explained by them, is found as the true word of God in the books of the Old Testament: these books, therefore, written under divine inspiration, remain permanently valuable. "For all that was written for our instruction, so that by steadfastness and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope" (Rom. 15:4).

15. The principal purpose to which the plan of the old covenant was directed was to prepare for the coming of Christ, the redeemer of all and of the messianic kingdom, to announce this coming by prophecy (see Luke 24:44; John 5:39; 1 Peter 1:10), and to indicate its meaning through various types (see 1 Cor. 10:12). Now the books of the Old Testament, in accordance with the state of mankind before the time of salvation established by Christ, reveal to all men the knowledge of God and of man and the ways in which God, just and merciful, deals with men. These books, though they also contain some things which are incomplete and temporary, nevertheless show us true divine pedagogy. (1) These same books, then, give expression to a lively sense of God, contain a store of sublime teachings about God, sound wisdom about human life, and a wonderful treasury of prayers, and in them the mystery of our salvation is present in a hidden way. Christians should receive them with reverence.

16. God, the inspirer and author of both Testaments, wisely arranged that the New Testament be hidden in the Old and the Old be made manifest in the New. (2) For, though Christ established the new covenant in His blood (see Luke 22:20; 1 Cor. 11:25), still the books of the Old Testament with all their parts, caught up into the proclamation of the Gospel, (3) acquire and show forth their full meaning in the New Testament (see Matt. 5:17; Luke 24:27; Rom. 16:25-26; 2 Cor. 14:16) and in turn shed light on it and explain it.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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Excellent, all your sources are my posts and not one of them refers to any "extra special" quality in the books of Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, 1 & 2 Maccabees, Baruch, Ecclesiastes, Daniel, and Esther.

Besides isn't this thread one that you started with the topic being the books mentioned above?
 
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ozso

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Excellent, all your sources are my posts
It's against the rules for me to "call out" other members. However you yourself can easily perform the same search on other members for your own perusal.
Besides isn't this thread one that you started with the topic being the books mentioned above?
Someone else started this thread.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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It's against the rules for me to "call out" other members. However you yourself can easily perform the same search on other members for your own perusal.
No thank you, I am not looking for anything in particular regarding other people's posts. I do not quite understand why you did a search on my posts.

So I say once more.

All your sources that you used are my posts and not one of them refers to any "extra special" quality in the books of Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, 1 & 2 Maccabees, Baruch, Ecclesiastes, Daniel, and Esther.

Besides isn't this thread one that you started with the topic being the books of Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, 1 & 2 Maccabees, Baruch, Ecclesiastes, Daniel, and Esther?
 
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ozso

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No thank you, I am not looking for anything in particular regarding other people's posts. I do not quite understand why you did a search on my posts.

So I say once more.

All your sources that you used are my posts and not one of them refers to any "extra special" quality in the books of Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, 1 & 2 Maccabees, Baruch, Ecclesiastes, Daniel, and Esther.
You and other Catholics mention it very frequently. I see "we have 73 books in our bible" is constantly repeated.
Besides isn't this thread one that you started with the topic being the books of Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, 1 & 2 Maccabees, Baruch, Ecclesiastes, Daniel, and Esther?
For the second time, no. If you can't tell who started this thread by going to page 1, then maybe you need to take a break.
 
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