Why take such a stand against homosexuality?

Chazemataz · Mar 22, 2009

psalm1:3 said:
to lighthorseman: you say gays don't go about defining themselves by their sexuality, yet i don't ever hear about heterosexuality parades

I never heard of a parade for old white guys either. Why? because they're not a minority. There are good and bad gay people, just like there are good and bad everyone else. one is not being mislead by satan when they think this.

But still, if I lived with gays, I wouldn't mind. I would state my feelings to them, and then leave it be. Same as when my friend told me that she was going to become a witch. I told her how I felt with love, but i respected her enough to leave it at that. Not once since, have I brought up the subject again. We are still great friends. Also, I have had gay friends, and I NEVER treated them any different. They were my friends before they came out, why wouldn't they be after? They are still spirits of God. His children.

I commend you on this attitude. i wish more conservatives would learn from your example. i see you are new, so welcome to the forums, we could use more people with this positive attitude to debate with instead of "BURN IN HELLROAR!"

psalm1:3 · Mar 22, 2009

Chazemataz said:
I commend you on this attitude. i wish more conservatives would learn from your example. i see you are new, so welcome to the forums, we could use more people with this positive attitude to debate with instead of "BURN IN HELLROAR!"

Believe me, I am tired of these people too. This is not how God intended to get his message out to it. It gives a bad name to Christians world 'round who understand God's true means of proclaiming his message - Love first.

BigBadWlf · Mar 22, 2009

LightHorseman said:
I'm always faintly amused that the people who not only justify, but somehow revel in God's destruction of children in the old testament because those children get to be with God all the sooner, are invariably the same people who decry abortion as abhorrent. I realise this is off topic, but it is one of those doublethink cases that always strikes me particularly hard.

Of course the real problem with all this is that no one, much less the children got to go to heaven. Heaven only got opened up because of Jesus. Prior to Jesus the dead all went to Sheol (Hebrew for grave or pit) and it didnt matter if one was a good person or a bad one Ps 9:17, Ps 31:17, Ps 49:14, Isa 5:14, Gen 37:35, Job 14:13, Ps 6:5 and a half dozen more.

Shoel is hades or hell. And at the resurrection the faithful occupants of hell got an upgrade to first class and were able to move up. So those kids didnt get to be with God sooner they just got sent to hell.

psalm1:3 · Mar 22, 2009

UncleHermit said:
Wait a minute, it's evil to feel shame? Why does Jesus remove it, then? Is He making us evil?

It is good for your own understanding to feel shame. It is the first step in realizing that you need God's forgivness. It then becomes evil if, even after you He has forgiven you, that it controls your life and becomes a wedge that separates you from God and the relationship He wants with you.

psalm1:3 · Mar 22, 2009

BigBadWlf said:
Of course the real problem with all this is that no one, much less the children got to go to heaven. Heaven only got opened up because of Jesus. Prior to Jesus the dead all went to Sheol (Hebrew for grave or pit) and it didnt matter if one was a good person or a bad one Ps 9:17, Ps 31:17, Ps 49:14, Isa 5:14, Gen 37:35, Job 14:13, Ps 6:5 and a half dozen more.

Shoel is hades or hell. And at the resurrection the faithful occupants of hell got an upgrade to first class and were able to move up. So those kids didnt get to be with God sooner they just got sent to hell.

Well i honestly don't know much about that. I have heard of Sheol, but I do not understand much of that. Yet, I would follow God to the ends of the earth. I accept that whatever happens to me is for the greater good of fulfilling his mission in our lives on earth.

psalm1:3 · Mar 22, 2009

but, I am tired. I need to sleep. I have enjoyed the conversations with you dear brothers and sisters. I hope and pray for your deliverance. That you would see that the God you deny is waiting for you to turn from your hard-heatedness and understand that you need him. That he loves you and you need his love to live in this world of pain and torment, ect. No one should go through their lives with out him. We cannot simply neglect the fact that we are supposed to live on our own until we die. And then what? What was the meaning to our lives? To live and then to die? Completely non-existent after that point? I will leave you with this.

Imagine yourself as non-existent. You are no where. Nothing.

Think about it for a moment more.

Can you comprehend it?

Seems to me, you are more important and valuable than you think.

LightHorseman · Mar 22, 2009

psalm1:3 said:
we do not completely understand what happens to these souls after they were destroyed, but understand this. they were wicked people. not only were they disobeying god, but they were having intimate relationships with angels of god. and giving birth to giants. not only this but they were doing all manner of evil continually. they didn't feel shame. but this happened before christ came. today no matter how evil someone is, as long as they come to christ, they will not be destroyed.

That doesn't really address the case of Job's children, does it?

But anyway, it was a minor aside.

UncleHermit · Mar 22, 2009

psalm1:3 said:
It is good for your own understanding to feel shame. It is the first step in realizing that you need God's forgivness. It then becomes evil if, even after you He has forgiven you, that it controls your life and becomes a wedge that separates you from God and the relationship He wants with you.

I meant, and have since edited my comment accordingly, that you seemed to suggest that it is evil to not feel shame. Sorry . Anyway, you have apparently understood what I meant

Having said that, I don't really understand your response. Why should justified shame ever be evil? Why should I stop feeling shame just because I believe in God? What kind of wedge would that be - because it sounds to me, like the sort of wedge that could separate oneself from one's own horrible actions. Would I be forgiven from them for no good reason, without even including the other people involved?

UncleHermit · Mar 22, 2009

psalm1:3 said:
but, I am tired. I need to sleep.

Goodnight (I hope I haven't sounded like a jerk...)

I have enjoyed the conversations with you dear brothers and sisters. I hope and pray for your deliverance. That you would see that the God you deny is waiting for you to turn from your hard-heatedness and understand that you need him. That he loves you and you need his love to live in this world of pain and torment, ect. No one should go through their lives with out him.

Well, you can't really say that without knowing me, can you?

What, exactly, have I denied, and how?

We cannot simply neglect the fact that we are supposed to live on our own until we die. And then what? What was the meaning to our lives? To live and then to die? Completely non-existent after that point? I will leave you with this.

Well, I for one can't neglect the fact that our lives have no ultimate meaning.

Imagine yourself as non-existent. You are no where. Nothing.

Think about it for a moment more.

Can you comprehend it?

Sure. Just imagine how it was before you were born.

Seems to me, you are more important and valuable than you think.

Really? I already think I'm really important and valuable...

Criada · Mar 22, 2009

If homosexuality is a choice, where does it leave those of us who have chosen against it, despite our nature, and end up living a lie? I used to think that was what God wanted... but if He really dislikes homosexuals so much, why does He not change those who beg Him to do so daily?
I have always believed that it was 'wrong', but I am finding that position increasingly untenable. The God I know is loving and compassionate... why would He leave someone who wanted to serve Him in a condition which He and they are both unhappy with?

Andreusz · Mar 23, 2009

psalm1:3 said:
we do not completely understand what happens to these souls after they were destroyed, but understand this. they were wicked people. not only were they disobeying god, but they were having intimate relationships with angels of god. and giving birth to giants. not only this but they were doing all manner of evil continually. they didn't feel shame. but this happened before christ came. today no matter how evil someone is, as long as they come to christ, they will not be destroyed.

Some of them were little children. EVIL little children?

psalm1:3 · Mar 23, 2009

Andreusz said:
Some of them were little children. EVIL little children?

the children would have unfortunately grew up and became just as corrupt as their parents

b&wpac4 · Mar 23, 2009

psalm1:3 said:
the children would have unfortunately grew up and became just as corrupt as their parents

How do you know this?

BigBadWlf · Mar 23, 2009

psalm1:3 said:
the children would have unfortunately grew up and became just as corrupt as their parents

Oh dont go there. Doing so steps into the tar pit of pre-destination.

Pre-destination means that humans lack free will including the free will to choose to be heterosexual. Meaning God does make homosexuals homosexual and then punishes said individuals for the way HE made them.

andross77 · Mar 23, 2009

dogar said:
I used to be very religious, charismatic church bah blah blah, but I was having feelings towards members of the same sex, not to women. I was becoming more and more religious and church involved and as this happened so did the feelings of self loathing, which ultimately led to what nearly was my suicide. I couldn't stand it any longer and left the church and 'came out'. Since then I have felt much better about myself and my life and no longer feel 'the unnatural one'.

Surely, if after much prayer and so on I still have these feelings towards members of the same sex, then God must have intended to be gay. However if this is true why does the church take such a stand against homosexuality and not do what all Christians should - judge. (and the hate the sin, love the sinner isn't appropriate, because if it were a sin, surely prayer would remove it).

So my question is this: Why take such a stand against homosexuality?

when Christians are asking for an approval for a lifestyle of sin, God-fearers should take a stand. When non-Christians want to live a lifestyle of sin, it can only be expected.

b&wpac4 · Mar 23, 2009

andross77 said:
when Christians are asking for an approval for a lifestyle of sin, God-fearers should take a stand. When non-Christians want to live a lifestyle of sin, it can only be expected.

Here we are again, equating allowing someone the legal right to do something and approving it. I'm going to call you again on the fact that I am not a Christian, and you aren't marching in the streets trying to stop me from my "lifestyle of sin".

andross77 · Mar 23, 2009

BigBadWlf said:
Oh dont go there. Doing so steps into the tar pit of pre-destination.

Pre-destination means that humans lack free will including the free will to choose to be heterosexual. Meaning God does make homosexuals homosexual and then punishes said individuals for the way HE made them.

i believe in pre-destination and in free will. The Bible teaches both. You don't understand pre-destination if you think they exclude one another.

You need to read Romans. You are basically blaming the Potter for making the clay (you or another person) a certain way. God's response is to say, "Who are you to call out God for being unfair or unreasonable in His creation?"

andross77 · Mar 23, 2009

b&wpac4 said:
Here we are again, equating allowing someone the legal right to do something and approving it. I'm going to call you again on the fact that I am not a Christian, and you aren't marching in the streets trying to stop me from my "lifestyle of sin".

i don't march on the streets for anything. i believe those that will come to Christ, will come to Christ. I speak out against sin because I believe that's what Jesus did. He loved the sinners but always spoke out against their sin. Whether it was the prostitutes he ate with or the Pharisees he talked with. Sin is sin.

b&wpac4 · Mar 23, 2009

andross77 said:
i don't march on the streets for anything. i believe those that will come to Christ, will come to Christ. I speak out against sin because I believe that's what Jesus did. He loved the sinners but always spoke out against their sin. Whether it was the prostitutes he ate with or the Pharisees he talked with. Sin is sin.

Please, do not deflect the question. Why do you equate allowing homosexuals to be married by the state the same as accepting or embracing that marriage?

andross77 · Mar 23, 2009

b&wpac4 said:
Please, do not deflect the question. Why do you equate allowing homosexuals to be married by the state the same as accepting or embracing that marriage?

because i want my government to as closely resemble heaven and Scripture's teachings as possible. Allowing gay marriage would be huge steps backwards from that vision.

Why take such a stand against homosexuality?

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