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Why Socialism Always Fails

Thursday

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(FTR, my answer: I don't know. I tend to look at it less in terms of "what do we have" and more in terms of "what works". If we can do what we need the government to do with 5%, then let's do that. If we can't do what we want with 30%, then we should look at why that is and consider increasing it further or revising what we want.)

I think we need to make this decision at the beginning rather than during the process. For democrats, we always need the government to do a little more. This inhibits economic growth and hurts people, especially the poor, by reducing the number of economic opportunities.
 
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tatteredsoul

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Communism and/or Socialism categorically needs a perfect leader in order to work. It is actually an idealistic government that is based on incentive of love and gratitude rather than competition and want. It cant work on this planet right now... not ever until a perfect leader is in power.

Capitalism categorically requires corrupt leadership in order maximize profits. Maximization requires a clear [local] minimum - which is "stayed" for the sake of the government of capitalism. In other words, there must be a class of poor to validate the wealth of the rich. All in between are in constant oscillation between poor and rich. Capitalism is ideal for corrupt, secretive governments who use their people as commodities.
 
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J Cord

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You really love the state it appears, is that truly a result of better education or did that government education brainwash you.

If I'm brainwashed, would I be able to tell?
 
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Thursday

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Capitalism categorically requires corrupt leadership in order maximize profits.

Absolute rubbish.

There is nothing corrupt about maximizing profits as long as participants are free to accept or reject any offers.

Capitalism is the only system where all participants, ie. investors, employees, customers, and suppliers are 100% free.

Under any form of socialism people are forced with the threat of violence to comply with mandates they may or may not agree with.
 
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JackRT

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No one is more greedy than a socialist party leader. Socialists never tire of finding new ways to spend other people's earnings.

Totally outrageous claims. If I didn't know that you were actually serious, you would be comical.
 
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tatteredsoul

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Absolute rubbish.

There is nothing corrupt about maximizing profits as long as participants are free to accept or reject any offers.

Capitalism is the only system where all participants, ie. investors, employees, customers, and suppliers are 100% free.

Under any form of socialism people are forced with the threat of violence to comply with mandates they may or may not agree with.

There is nothing evil about maximizing profits... except the fact that profits don't exist in a vacuum, and must come at the expense of someone or something else. Education. Freedom. Safety. Ethnic groups. And so on.

To ignore that would be economically irresponsible.

And, you may still be missing the point. I am not saying g Capitalism can't work. In fact, our ignorance of our own evil makes capitalism so easy to work. I am saying capitalism works, and works best with corrupt leadership. As said before, from a mathematical standpoint capitalism maximizes profits, which means there is a local minimum of profits for someone. Very basic.

The problem with capitalism is that there is no incentive to HELP, especially in such a greed driven type of economy. No one in a capitalist society will, or should make an investment without expecting more of a return than the principle put in - plus dividends. Capitalism is only about CAPITAL. It is as far from social interaction through love and care as possible; capital is the point.

Socialism demands a perfect leader at the very least so as not to corrupt the government with lopsided pleasantries only for the leader. This may be shocking, but HEAVEN will NOT be capitalist; it will be more socialist than anything. That is because the currency in heaven is love, devotion, friendship and gratitude. You won't find heavenly entities trying to sell a piece of their spirit for a few intergalactic coins. You won't find angels complaining that they saved a planet, but only received a macaroni picture in return. Things are done out of love, not profit, in an ideal socialist society.

That is the difference: ideal capitalism needs ideal corruption (like today;) ideal socialism needs an ideal leader.

No one is free in the Ponzi of capitalism. It is based on usury, debt, poverty and economic subjugation in exchange for more monopoly fiat money. Capitalism with or without a perfect leader is an atrocity to the character of humanity (of course, those who profit from capitalism see it as shining and a beacon.)

It isn't rubbish just because you say it is.
 
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Thursday

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There is nothing evil about maximizing profits... except the fact that profits don't exist in a vacuum, and must come at the expense of someone or something else. Education. Freedom. Safety. Ethnic groups. And so on.

More rubbish. You need to take a basic economics class.

Profits exist when one party fulfills the need of another party in an efficient and satisfactory matter.

Unless both parties are satisfied with the transaction it will not happen. I don't buy something unless I choose to do so in a capitalist society.
 
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JackRT

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Socialists don't like confronting reality.

Socialism is driven by the greed of the ruling class.

You are so wrong that you have actually become insulting.
 
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tatteredsoul

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More rubbish. You need to take a basic economics class.

Profits exist when one party fulfills the need of another party in an efficient and satisfactory matter.

Unless both parties are satisfied with the transaction it will not happen. I don't buy something unless I choose to do so in a capitalist society.


OK you are right I am wrong.
 
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Picky Picky

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Other than most democrats, who are socialists in the variety known euphemistically in Europe as "Democratic Socialism".
That seems to me plain wrong. The prevalent economic model on the Left in Europe is not Democratic Socialism but Social Democracy. Would you care to give us your definitions of Socialism, Democratic Socialism, and Social Democracy?
 
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tatteredsoul

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And they aren't already?

Exactly. The illusion is there is a separation of more than two classes when, history has repeatedly taught us there are only two classes no matter the politico-economic: rich and poor. Some nations had bougeroise and proletariat. Same stuff.

Capitalism will always be categorically flawed by its ideaology: getting profits. The goal of capitalism is not to live in a socially accepting, free and fair society. It is about gaining max profit. The winners win big, and the losers never played - although they think they have a real hand in the game.
 
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Nithavela

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I am writing this to you from the hell hole that is... was democratic socialist germany. I don't know how much time I'll have, so I'll keep it brief.

We don't know where it started. Maybe at some political rally, or at a union strike, or at a garden party where someone shared the last sausage. But suddenly, they were everywhere. True socialist, casting of their guise and striking at everyone close to them.

It's not like in the movies. They are FAST, and they won't stop following you even if you blow their brains out with cleverly worded arguments for capitalism. They hunt you down, and they take all of your stuff.

Our bankers had some success in containing them in the big cities for a few weeks, but when they started showing up in the countryside, we knew that it was all over. There are only a few pockets of resistance left that are actually working instead of lazing around and complaining about other people having more.

They are banging on my door now. They want me to share my computer so that they can check their facebook page. But they'll never take my harddrive unformated!
 
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Thursday

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That seems to me plain wrong. The prevalent economic model on the Left in Europe is not Democratic Socialism but Social Democracy. Would you care to give us your definitions of Socialism, Democratic Socialism, and Social Democracy?

Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism are indistinguishable.

Socialism is a broad term that must be qualified by degree.

Greater state control is a move toward socialism. Greater individual liberty is a move toward capitalism.
 
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Thursday

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Exactly. The illusion is there is a separation of more than two classes when, history has repeatedly taught us there are only two classes no matter the politico-economic: rich and poor. Some nations had bougeroise and proletariat. Same stuff.

Capitalism will always be categorically flawed by its ideaology: getting profits. The goal of capitalism is not to live in a socially accepting, free and fair society. It is about gaining max profit. The winners win big, and the losers never played - although they think they have a real hand in the game.

Brain dead propaganda.

The choices are freedom versus slavery. You want to move toward slavery.
 
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lesliedellow

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Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism are indistinguishable.

Socialism is a broad term that must be qualified by degree.

Greater state control is a move toward socialism. Greater individual liberty is a move toward capitalism.

Deomocratic socialists could be as left wing as Karl Marx, provided they submitted themselves to periodic re-election. Social Democrats are slightly to the left of centre, but the economies they oversee are essentially capitalist- just not as laissez-faire as in America.

Maybe you would like to educate yourself about how the world outside of America works.
 
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