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Why Socialism Always Fails

The Cadet

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Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism are indistinguishable.

Socialism is a broad term that must be qualified by degree.

Greater state control is a move toward socialism. Greater individual liberty is a move toward capitalism.

That seems a misnomer of "socialism". And there's no reason to believe that pure capitalism is better than a capitalistic system with socialistic elements.

Brain dead propaganda.

The choices are freedom versus slavery. You want to move toward slavery.

I don't know about freedom, but I don't think you can really do slavery by degree. And it's certainly not fair to simply assert that because complete control over our income and our lives would be slavery, therefore any step that increases control over us would be worse because it's a "move toward slavery". What if society is simply demonstrably better off if our choice of health insurance provider was "enslaved", i.e. the government chose how we got health insurance? It's not fair to argue that it would automatically be worse just because of the move away from absolute freedom.
 
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Light of the East

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Absolute rubbish.

There is nothing corrupt about maximizing profits as long as participants are free to accept or reject any offers.

Capitalism is the only system where all participants, ie. investors, employees, customers, and suppliers are 100% free.

Under any form of socialism people are forced with the threat of violence to comply with mandates they may or may not agree with.

You're a Catholic and you actually believe this crap????

You need to bone up on your Chesterton readings.

A lot!
 
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Light of the East

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More rubbish. You need to take a basic economics class.

Profits exist when one party fulfills the need of another party in an efficient and satisfactory matter.

Unless both parties are satisfied with the transaction it will not happen. I don't buy something unless I choose to do so in a capitalist society.

You are really out of touch with reality, aren't you?

In a society which is controlled by the rich, you WILL buy what they tell you (brainwashing) and you WILL like it. The so-called "choices" which you think you have are being made for you by those who have one thing in mind: and it ain't your life or the good of your person. It's profit, pure and simple.

I hope someday you get to walk about in the real world of the poor and then come back and tell me how "free" you are.
 
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Constantine the Sinner

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Capitalism basically revolves around usury and seeks to commodity everything and place money in between all human interaction, whereas socialism revolves around utility and seeks to quantify everything and place the state in between all human interaction. Both systems ultimately work to either erode, sublate or annihilate all human networks that function outside of them. Of the two, I'm inclined more toward capitalism, but mainly because it doesn't kill people for believing in God. Money is a truly filthy thing that defiles those who deal with it, and there's a reason Judas was chosen to handle all the money. I recommend reading The Great Transformation for anyone looking to understand non-monetary economics.
 
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Thursday

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One would assume that it is based upon the New Testament. You know the sort of thing, feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless, comfort the sick, visit the prisoner. Sort of what a welfare state is designed to do.

PIUS XI (1922-1939):

Pius XI (1922-1939): "No one can be at the same time a good Catholic and a true socialist."
Socialism, fundamentally contrary to Christian truth
“... For Socialism, which could then be termed almost a single system and which maintained definite teachings reduced into one body of doctrine, has since then split chiefly into two sections, often opposing each other and even bitterly hostile, without either one however abandoning a position fundamentally contrary to Christian truth that was characteristic of Socialism.” (EncyclicalQuadragesimo Anno, May 15, 1931, n. 111)

Socialism cannot be reconciled with Catholic Doctrine
“But what if Socialism has really been so tempered and modified as to the class struggle and private ownership that there is in it no longer anything to be censured on these points? Has it thereby renounced its contradictory nature to the Christian religion? This is the question that holds many minds in suspense. And numerous are the Catholics who, although they clearly understand that Christian principles can never be abandoned or diminished seem to turn their eyes to the Holy See and earnestly beseech Us to decide whether this form of Socialism has so far recovered from false doctrines that it can be accepted without the sacrifice of any Christian principle and in a certain sense be baptized. That We, in keeping with Our fatherly solicitude, may answer their petitions, We make this pronouncement: Whether considered as a doctrine, or an historical fact, or a movement, Socialism, if it remains truly Socialism, even after it has yielded to truth and justice on the points which we have mentioned, cannot be reconciled with the teachings of the Catholic Church because its concept of society itself is utterly foreign to Christian truth.” (Ibid. n. 117)



PIUS IX (1846-1878):
“Overthrow [of] the entire order of human affairs”
“You are aware indeed, that the goal of this most iniquitous plot is to drive people to overthrow the entire order of human affairs and to draw them over to the wicked theories of this Socialism and Communism, by confusing them with perverted teachings.” (Encyclical Nostis et Nobiscum,December 8, 1849)

LEO XIII (1878-1903):
Hideous monster
“...communism, socialism, nihilism, hideous deformities of the civil society of men and almost its ruin.” (Encyclical Diuturnum, June 29, 1881)

Ruin of all institutions
“... For, the fear of God and reverence for divine laws being taken away, the authority of rulers despised, sedition permitted and approved, and the popular passions urged on to lawlessness, with no restraint save that of punishment, a change and overthrow of all things will necessarily follow. Yea, this change and overthrow is deliberately planned and put forward by many associations of communists and socialists” (EncyclicalHumanum Genus, April 20, 1884, n. 27).


Enemy of society and of Religion
“...there is need for a union of brave minds with all the resources they can command. The harvest of misery is before our eyes, and the dreadful projects of the most disastrous national upheavals are threatening us from the growing power of the socialistic movement. They have insidiously worked their way into the very heart of the community, and in the darkness of their secret gatherings, and in the open light of day, in their writings and their harangues, they are urging the masses onward to sedition; they fling aside religious discipline; they scorn duties; they clamor only for rights; they are working incessantly on the multitudes of the needy which daily grow greater, and which, because of their poverty are easily deluded and led into error. It is equally the concern of the State and of religion, and all good

SAINT PIUS X (1903-1914):
The dream of re-shaping society will bring socialism
“But stranger still, alarming and saddening at the same time, are the audacity and frivolity of men who call themselves Catholics and dream of re-shaping society under such conditions, and of establishing on earth, over and beyond the pale of the Catholic Church, ‘the reign of love and justice’ ... What are they going to produce? ... A mere verbal and chimerical construction in which we shall see, glowing in a jumble, and in seductive confusion, the words Liberty, Justice, Fraternity, Love, Equality, and human exultation, all resting upon an ill-understood human dignity. It will be a tumultuous agitation, sterile for the end proposed, but which will benefit the less Utopian exploiters of the people. Yes, we can truly say that the Sillon, its eyes fixed on a chimera, brings Socialism in its train.” (Apostolic Letter Notre Charge Apostolique ["Our Apostolic Mandate"] to the French Bishops, August 25, 1910, condemning the movementLe Sillon)


More here:

http://www.tfp.org/tfp-home/catholic-perspective/what-the-popes-have-to-say-about-socialism.html
 
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Thursday

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You are really out of touch with reality, aren't you?

In a society which is controlled by the rich, you WILL buy what they tell you (brainwashing) and you WILL like it.


Under capitalism, unlike socialism, nobody forces you to buy anything.
 
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lesliedellow

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PIUS XI (1922-1939):
Pius XI (1922-1939): "No one can be at the same time a good Catholic and a true socialist."

PIUS IX (1846-1878):
“Overthrow [of] the entire order of human affairs”

LEO XIII (1878-1903):
Hideous monster
“...communism, socialism, nihilism, hideous deformities of the civil society of men and almost its ruin.” (Encyclical Diuturnum, June 29, 1881)

SAINT PIUS X (1903-1914):
The dream of re-shaping society will bring socialism
“But stranger still, alarming and saddening at the same time, are the audacity and frivolity of men who call themselves Catholics

I notice that you didn't quote the current Pope. Still, I suppose that he counts as a heretic in the eyes of the right.
 
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Light of the East

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Why force when you can make people do it willingly?

Well, sounds like we are kind of talking about the same thing. Lies sold as truth, manipulation of markets and pricing. That sort of thing.
 
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Light of the East

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I notice that you didn't quote the current Pope. Still, I suppose that he counts as a heretic in the eyes of the right.

Well, of course he does, because the "god" of the right is wealth. Having crap. Lots and lots of crap.

I find myself amazed that it seems that all we do is watch sports and go shopping while the poor around us suffer under policies which are not designed to actually help them out of their misery, but keep them dependent upon those blood-sucking leeches in Washington DC.
 
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Thursday

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I notice that you didn't quote the current Pope. Still, I suppose that he counts as a heretic in the eyes of the right.


The current pope is a leftist who is out of step with the Church. He is loved by fellow leftists, of course.

JOHN PAUL II (1978-2005):
Socialism: Danger of a “simple and radical solution”
“It may seem surprising that ‘socialism’ appeared at the beginning of the Pope's critique of solutions to the ‘question of the working class’ at a time when ‘socialism’ was not yet in the form of a strong and powerful State, with all the resources which that implies, as was later to happen. However, he correctly judged the danger posed to the masses by the attractive presentation of this simple and radical solution to the ‘question of the working class.’" (EncyclicalCentesimus Annus − On the 100th anniversary of Pope Leo XIII'sRerum Novarum, May 1, 1991, n. 12)

Fundamental error of socialism: A mistaken conception of the person
“Continuing our reflections, ... we have to add that the fundamental error of socialism is anthropological in nature. Socialism considers the individual person simply as an element, a molecule within the social organism, so that the good of the individual is completely subordinated to the functioning of the socio-economic mechanism. Socialism likewise maintains that the good of the individual can be realized without reference to his free choice, to the unique and exclusive responsibility which he exercises in the face of good or evil. Man is thus reduced to a series of social relationships, and the concept of the person as the autonomous subject of moral decision disappears, the very subject whose decisions build the social order. From this mistaken conception of the person there arise both a distortion of law, which defines the sphere of the exercise of freedom, and an opposition to private property.” (Ibid, n. 13)

BENEDICT XVI (2005 - present):
“We do not need a State which regulates and controls everything”

“The State which would provide everything, absorbing everything into itself, would ultimately become a mere bureaucracy incapable of guaranteeing the very thing which the suffering person − every person − needs: namely, loving personal concern. We do not need a State which regulates and controls everything, but a State which, in accordance with the principle of subsidiarity, generously acknowledges and supports initiatives arising from the different social forces and combines spontaneity with closeness to those in need. … In the end, the claim that just social structures would make works of charity superfluous masks a materialist conception of man: the mistaken notion that man can live ‘by bread alone’ (Mt 4:4; cf. Dt 8:3) − a conviction that demeans man and ultimately disregards all that is specifically human.” (Encyclical Deus Caritas Est, December 25, 2005, n. 28)
 
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The Cadet

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Sweden has a "Democratic Socialism" and it doesn't seem to be working out for them.
Yes, because #2 on the quality of life index is horribly embarrassing.

http://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/quality-of-life-rankings

Up until the refugee crisis, Sweden's system worked stunningly well. Even now, it's hard to argue that it's failed. And Sweden has had a free market since before World War II, so calling it "communist" is beyond absurd.

Hey @Thursday, is this guy a leftist?
 
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