Why Should Women not be Permitted to go Topless in Public?

Blue Wren · Apr 18, 2015

Women are permitted to walk around topless, in Sweden, if they please, but I've never seen this, anywhere. Men, do not walk around, topless, either. Not, in the city. At the sauna, everyone is nude. This, is not something, that is sexualised. No, not at all. At the beach, also, people are nude, sometimes. In the city centre, you would not see anyone, who was topless, unless, they were trying, to cause a scene.

Eudaimonist · Apr 18, 2015

Blue Wren said:
Women are permitted to walk around topless, in Sweden, if they please, but I've never seen this, anywhere. Men, do not walk around, topless, either. Not, in the city. At the sauna, everyone is nude. This, is not something, that is sexualised. No, not at all. At the beach, also, people are nude, sometimes. In the city centre, you would not see anyone, who was topless, unless, they were trying, to cause a scene.

That's roughly my experience in Sweden as well. Culturally, people reserve nudity for certain places and situations.

I wasn't aware that Swedes did any nude sauna, unless it is only with friends or relatives. I've gone to a sauna at a local swimming hall, and people kept their clothes on inside. What is your experience there?

eudaimonia,

Mark

agua · Apr 18, 2015

wpiman2 said:
Adam and Eve wore fig leafs. I say we go back to that. How much for Biblical can you get?

I think it will be difficult to play rubgy in this get up

Archivist · Apr 18, 2015

only a sojourner said:
This thread, on this nominally Christian forum, is an example of just how far the West has fallen away from Biblical standards on morality and from Christianity itself. There will be a remanent of those faithful to the Lord to uphold the doctrines and standards of Christianity amidst the chorus of darkness which engulfs the United States and Western culture. This is a battle between light and darkness. Where do you stand?

We are not discussing nudity here. Exactly where in Scripture does it say a thing about anyone going topless in public?

SuperCloud · Apr 18, 2015

DaveW-Ohev said:
That assumes rape is about sexual intent. Most studies I have seen say sexual assault is more about power than sex. I would look for other reasons their rate is lower.

I guess male rapists can't get an erection, climax, and [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] then. Which is good for female rape victims because they can't get impregnated.

I know what the common cliche is about rape being about power and not sex. But while there is a grain of truth in that cliche the larger truth is rapists are sexually aroused by what they're doing. It doesn't take a lot to figure this out. These same experts once thought you could put pedophiles through therapy class, upon graduation from the classes, you could set them in a *new* environment around new children. No blue collar construction worker would have been as dumb as these "scientific" experts.

commonsence · Apr 18, 2015

in roman times the slaves were totally naked and were not allowed to wear clothes

Ana the Ist · Apr 18, 2015

Archivist said:
With the arrival of warm weather in the US, we again face the double standard of allowing men, but--in most places--not allowing women to go topless in public. Why not?

Would those who are opposed to women going topless in public please address the following:

1). At no place in Scripture are women forbidden from going topless in public.

2). 1 Timothy 2:9 tells us that women are to “dress modestly,” however “modestly” is defined as “adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes.” Going topless is never mentioned. Nudity was actually much more common in Biblical times.

3). Romans 14:13 tells us not to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother, but the allure of female breasts would diminish if women would regularly go topless in places where men commonly go topless. In addition we allow men to go topless in America(something that was illegal less than 100 years ago) with no concern that they might be placing a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of women.

4). Even if Scripture did forbid women from going topless, the US is a secular nation.

5). Men obviously can handle seeing women go topless because women regularly do so in many parts of the world.

6). If we are "created equal," how can we allow men to go without a shirt in public without allowing women to do the same?

Well personally...

Ever have a rather well endowed woman brush a dirty pillow up against you in a somewhat confined public space? This is distracting in clothing...it's like my brain automatically knows "That's a snack-tray"...I imagine that the problem would multiply with naked knockers swinging everywhere.

Then on top of that, I don't need the extra hassle of my wife asking me every five minutes when we're out "we're you looking at her breasticles?". It's not even that I'd be staring...I'd just have to answer this every time a pair of milk-jugs crossed my path.

Then finally, can you imagine the aesthetics of it? Fun-bags would be down to women's waists in about 3 years. Ugh...

Vlad The Exhaler · Apr 19, 2015

I can think of some pretty good reasons:

- Men's breasts are not sexual in the way women's are. By that I mean, they are not only less sensitive but they aren't sexual in the sense that they serve no pro-creative function, unlike women's for breastfeeding young. The comparison of "equalness" falls short because we aren't comparing apples to apples from a strictly biological standpoint.

- While it may be true that in cultures where bare breasted women in public are the norm, this isn't true for Western culture and a bare breasted female in most public places (outside of areas where it may be accepted like the beach or in circumstances such as breastfeeding) can give out a signal that may be interpreted as sexual in nature.

That can lead to unwanted advances or worse - rape - while men typically do not need to be concerned about this just by going without a shirt.

- As a few women stated, a lot of women would have to get on board for barebreasted in public to become anything like the norm - and I can tell you as a male I personally would not be excited about it - if only because it would mean seeing much more than I would WANT to see from the obese, the old, super sag etc.

Ana the Ist · Apr 19, 2015

Vlad The Exhaler said:
I can think of some pretty good reasons:

- Men's breasts are not sexual in the way women's are. By that I mean, they are not only less sensitive but they aren't sexual in the sense that they serve no pro-creative function, unlike women's for breastfeeding young. The comparison of "equalness" falls short because we aren't comparing apples to apples from a strictly biological standpoint.

- While it may be true that in cultures where bare breasted women in public are the norm, this isn't true for Western culture and a bare breasted female in most public places (outside of areas where it may be accepted like the beach or in circumstances such as breastfeeding) can give out a signal that may be interpreted as sexual in nature.

That can lead to unwanted advances or worse - rape - while men typically do not need to be concerned about this just by going without a shirt.

- As a few women stated, a lot of women would have to get on board for barebreasted in public to become anything like the norm - and I can tell you as a male I personally would not be excited about it - if only because it would mean seeing much more than I would WANT to see from the obese, the old, super sag etc.

This guy gets it.

There's a lot of those you just won't want to see...like the ones where it looks like they got a couple kids with progeria in a headlock....

TillICollapse · Apr 19, 2015

Ana the Ist said:
There's a lot of those you just won't want to see...like the ones where it looks like they got a couple kids with progeria in a headlock....

Oh wow

Eudaimonist · Apr 19, 2015

commonsence said:
in roman times the slaves were totally naked and were not allowed to wear clothes

Where did you hear that?

eudaimonia,

Mark

Archivist · Apr 20, 2015

commonsence said:
in roman times the slaves were totally naked and were not allowed to wear clothes

My understanding is that Roman slaves were naked at the time that they were auctioned, but thereafter wore clothing appropriate to their position.

Roman Slaves Clothing

Eudaimonist · Apr 20, 2015

Archivist said:
My understanding is that Roman slaves were naked at the time that they were auctioned, but thereafter wore clothing appropriate to their position.

Roman Slaves Clothing

That's what I thought too.

In any case, I can't imagine why anyone would want to connect nudity to slavery. One doesn't imply the other.

eudaimonia,

Mark

PsychoSarah · Apr 20, 2015

Ana the Ist said:
This guy gets it.

There's a lot of those you just won't want to see...like the ones where it looks like they got a couple kids with progeria in a headlock....

There are a lot of hairy, gross men I don't want to see with their shirts off. I say no one should be allowed to be exposed if we base it upon how appearance might affect other people.

Because any argument against women going topless is going to apply to men as well.

Ana the Ist · Apr 20, 2015

PsychoSarah said:
There are a lot of hairy, gross men I don't want to see with their shirts off. I say no one should be allowed to be exposed if we base it upon how appearance might affect other people.

Because any argument against women going topless is going to apply to men as well.

Agreed.

Archivist · Apr 20, 2015

PsychoSarah said:
Because any argument against women going topless is going to apply to men as well.

he following arguments against women going topless in public have been raised thus far:

1) It would cause insurance rates to go up--no evidence offered in support of this, it has not happened where women are allowed to go topless in public

2) Seeing old or overweight women going topless would be gross, yet we allow old, overweight and hairy men to go topless

3) Men are sexually stimulated by the sight of female breasts, yet some women are sexually stimulated by the sight of a bare male chest--why allow men to go topless if that is the case

4) Women will be raped if they go topless, yet this doesn't seem to be an issue in places in Europe where nudity is much more common

5) Women shouldn't be allowed to go to work or enter stores and other places topless--this ignores the basis of the thread; we are talking about women having the right to go topless where men alreday have that right

6) The Bible says that nudity is evil--first, it doesn't say that and second, we are not discussing allowing anyone to go naked in this thread

Ada Lovelace · Apr 23, 2015

I thought of this thread when I read this article just now:
Venice Beach neighborhood council seeks topless sunbathing for women - LA Times

I'm a surfer and though I prefer other beaches I'm at Venice fairly often. I've seen women discreetly slip their bikini tops off while sunbathing without it drawing much attention or ruffling feathers. More tourists seem focused on the topless guys at the iconic Muscle Beach than the ladies out on their towels just blissfully and peacefully soaking up the sun. As far as safety issues, I think attractive women are going to attract attention - some of it pleasing and innocent and other obnoxious and lascivious - regardless of what they are wearing there. Many female surfers have been hit on while in a wetsuit that completely covers you from shoulders to knee or ankle.

Rationalt · Apr 23, 2015

PsychoSarah said:
Because any argument against women going topless is going to apply to men as well.

No, It doesn't .

Eudaimonist · Apr 23, 2015

Rationalt said:
No, It doesn't .

Why not? What exceptions do you see?

eudaimonia,

Mark

Archivist · Apr 23, 2015

Artemis97 said:
I thought of this thread when I read this article just now:
Venice Beach neighborhood council seeks topless sunbathing for women - LA Times

This is a good thing. Hopefully this attitude will spread.

Why Should Women not be Permitted to go Topless in Public?

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