Why should I become a christian again? For her?

[cannadyjason]

Hi I am 20 year old student in college majoring in evolutionary biology. ( I also like physics) I used to believe almost everything and bible when I was very young and but when I was 14 and started reading alot I began not to believe in it. I don't believe in Adam and Eve, young earth creationism, Noah's Ark, bibical lifespans and jesus's ultimate divinity. I don't believe that humans are special and I believe that we will eventually die out and be replaced by some other form of the homo genus. I also don't believe that god can't be evil either.This as come from reading a wide variety of topics. I still do believe in a higher power or some infinite intellegence, because almost every scientific theory I have read about always leads back to the uncaused first cause. I have thought about this alot. I don't think that the bible is the word of god or that the bible defines what god really is because how can something that is finite describe an infinite? Man has only been here for a fraction of the universes 13.5 billion year existence, and we got all the answers 2,000 years ago? I don't think we have evolved enough yet to be able to understand these things. Personally I really don't believe that blind faith in anything without questioning and researching it is a good thing.

Well I have been dating a lovely girl and I didn't know she was very religious, until she started speaking about it recently and I told her my veiws and she was a bit taken a back. I think she has a diferent opinion of me but I like her alot and don't want to lose her. What do you think about it? She thinks I am heretic because of my views I think.

 

[drich0150]

I believe if your willing to trade in your deeply held beliefs for a chance of another date, you may be worse off than if you were a heretic.

You are, what you are, and if you don't believe, then let her go. You should not feign belief in a relatively antiquated Theology just to satisfy your personal desires. Even people who don't necessarily believe in God can see misrepresenting yourself to someone one who does, just to take advantage of them to satisfy one's own desire is wrong. Stand up for what you believe in don't trade it in for a "little slice of heaven" Because there will be hell to pay down the road.

Going through the motions of religion for any reason other than trying to establish a relationship with God will only put distance between you and God. (on your end, not his) If you were truly open to the Idea of God I would tell you to go to church for the girl and stay at church for the God, but as it is, if you do chances are (Unless something changes in your heart) you will loose any oppertunity you do have to truly know God..

 

[freeport]

Hi I am 20 year old student in college majoring in evolutionary biology. ( I also like physics) I used to believe almost everything and bible when I was very young and but when I was 14 and started reading alot I began not to believe in it. I don't believe in Adam and Eve, young earth creationism, Noah's Ark, bibical lifespans and jesus's ultimate divinity. I don't believe that humans are special and I believe that we will eventually die out and be replaced by some other form of the homo genus. I also don't believe that god can't be evil either.This as come from reading a wide variety of topics. I still do believe in a higher power or some infinite intellegence, because almost every scientific theory I have read about always leads back to the uncaused first cause. I have thought about this alot. I don't think that the bible is the word of god or that the bible defines what god really is because how can something that is finite describe an infinite? Man has only been here for a fraction of the universes 13.5 billion year existence, and we got all the answers 2,000 years ago? I don't think we have evolved enough yet to be able to understand these things. Personally I really don't believe that blind faith in anything without questioning and researching it is a good thing.

Well I have been dating a lovely girl and I didn't know she was very religious, until she started speaking about it recently and I told her my veiws and she was a bit taken a back. I think she has a diferent opinion of me but I like her alot and don't want to lose her. What do you think about it? She thinks I am heretic because of my views I think.

Your views are pretty common, actually. If you want you can try re-looking at the Bible.

My view of science is it is a farce... all of creation is a wrapping over our senses. Not that I am opposed to science, only when science is used to create dogma that is unproven. (For instance, the empirical sciences such as what create modern technology, as opposed to theoretical sciences which tend to go really crazy into speculation on the basis of faulty and incomplete evidence.)

So, I like the idea of science, but in my view a lot of modern science has really gone far off track, really just about anywhere it can.

This is because of the motivation of most of these guys: ego and greed. People envy the reputations of others and strive hard to get that reputation, but what is it but the words from the lips of men.

Then there's the greed component, where scientists come up with theories that sound scary or compelling to support their work. Really, I wouldn't say that is so much as "greed" as some would, but more of a fear of losing their jobs. And once they get on certain tracks they are under compulsion to continue that track lest they be out of funding.

Of course, many of these sciences I am speaking of stop calling their theories "theories" and just go far, far off course.

As for God "being evil", yes, we are used to being called evil. People distort Scripture to make accusations against God because the Bible is inconvenient for their sinful longings. Sad thing is, however, that if they could believe, they would find how horrible that state of life is.

And people look around the world, see all of the evil, and can't trust God because of it: though the evil in the world is the result of the works of the Devil which Jesus came to destroy.

But, then that was by design, that man might not be able to trust God, lest He believe God, turn, and be saved.

Is that "evil"? No... it is complicated.

 

[cannadyjason]

Your views are pretty common, actually. If you want you can try re-looking at the Bible.

My view of science is it is a farce... all of creation is a wrapping over our senses. Not that I am opposed to science, only when science is used to create dogma that is unproven. (For instance, the empirical sciences such as what create modern technology, as opposed to theoretical sciences which tend to go really crazy into speculation on the basis of faulty and incomplete evidence.)

So, I like the idea of science, but in my view a lot of modern science has really gone far off track, really just about anywhere it can.

This is because of the motivation of most of these guys: ego and greed. People envy the reputations of others and strive hard to get that reputation, but what is it but the words from the lips of men.

Then there's the greed component, where scientists come up with theories that sound scary or compelling to support their work. Really, I wouldn't say that is so much as "greed" as some would, but more of a fear of losing their jobs. And once they get on certain tracks they are under compulsion to continue that track lest they be out of funding.

Of course, many of these sciences I am speaking of stop calling their theories "theories" and just go far, far off course.

As for God "being evil", yes, we are used to being called evil. People distort Scripture to make accusations against God because the Bible is inconvenient for their sinful longings. Sad thing is, however, that if they could believe, they would find how horrible that state of life is.

And people look around the world, see all of the evil, and can't trust God because of it: though the evil in the world is the result of the works of the Devil which Jesus came to destroy.

But, then that was by design, that man might not be able to trust God, lest He believe God, turn, and be saved.

Is that "evil"? No... it is complicated.

I don't know. I don't think science is a farce. I can't completey turn of logic and say I don't believe something when I see it with my two eyes. Alot things in the bible just don't add up, in my opinion but people can believe what the want to believe. To be honest I do believe in a higher power, but I can probably never believe in the bible when I did when I was younger.

I am not distorting anything, I am more likely to believe things when I see them with my own two eyes. I my life isn't horrible just because I don't suscribe to a certain doctrine. Thats what wrong with some people they are so ingrained in their believes that they end up blinding themsleves. My believes are not that strong and they can change if the evidence for them changes. Follow where ever the evidence leads in my opinion. The words of Socrates

 

[Adoniram]

I don't know. I don't think science is a farce. I can't completey turn of logic and say I don't believe something when I see it with my two eyes. Alot things in the bible just don't add up, in my opinion but people can believe what the want to believe. To be honest I do believe in a higher power, but I can probably never believe in the bible when I did when I was younger.

I am not distorting anything, I am more likely to believe things when I see them with my own two eyes. I my life isn't horrible just because I don't suscribe to a certain doctrine. Thats what wrong with some people they are so ingrained in their believes that they end up blinding themsleves. My believes are not that strong and they can change if the evidence for them changes. Follow where ever the evidence leads in my opinion. The words of Socrates

I don't think science is a farce either. The research sure does result in a lot of nice and useful things for us.

If you are more likely to believe things when you see them with your own two eyes, what are you thoughts on, oh let's say, George Washington? Do you believe he existed? Did you see him with your own two eyes? The point being that probably 99% of what we "know" about the world is not gained through personal experience but rather comes to us from sources outside our own personal "bubble." We stand on the foundations of those who went before, and are dependent in many cases on the accuracy of what they report. In essence, most of what we "know," we must take upon faith.

Which brings us to your comment on the Bible. "Alot things in the bible just don't add up." Is it reliable? Well, historians and archeologists rely heavily on it. The fact is that it has never been shown to be in error in those two disciplines. And certainly, civilized countries base much of their law on the moral principles that are found in it. Most apparent contradictions can be attributed to differences in perspective, much like two or three witnesses giving slightly different stories in a criminal trial. Rather than meaning one or the other is wrong, the different perspectives render a more complete picture.

Thats what wrong with some people they are so ingrained in their believes that they end up blinding themsleves.

Funny that you should express yourself in that manner because that is just how the Bible describes unbelievers.

Eph. 4
18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart;

And this, of course, is the reason why you make the claim "things in the bible just don't add up. You have no understanding of things that are spiritual in nature. 1 Cor. 2:14

My believes are not that strong and they can change if the evidence for them changes. Follow where ever the evidence leads in my opinion. The words of Socrates.

The question I would ask you then is why do you put your faith in things that are so unstable and wavering?

Mt. 7
24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”

 

[CrimsonJoker]

Science is the human way of proving God in my opinion. Science can prove the existence of God. The bible has no inconsistances, it has many things many cannot understand yes, but not inconsistances, and if so they arent of God or Christianity, but of the men who misunderstood God

 

[cannadyjason]

m

I don't think science is a farce either. The research sure does result in a lot of nice and useful things for us.

If you are more likely to believe things when you see them with your own two eyes, what are you thoughts on, oh let's say, George Washington? Do you believe he existed? Did you see him with your own two eyes? The point being that probably 99% of what we "know" about the world is not gained through personal experience but rather comes to us from sources outside our own personal "bubble." We stand on the foundations of those who went before, and are dependent in many cases on the accuracy of what they report. In essence, most of what we "know," we must take upon faith.

Thats a straw man agrument. George Washington has been 100% historically proven to be the first president of the United States. You can't compare that to Noahs Ark. Your right their are some historical truths to the bible, but alot of it contridicts itself and has alot of human error, especially for the main tenets of christianity. The bible was written by normal mortal men. Even the concept of heaven and hell and jesus's divinity weren't even in the historical teachings of jesus.

Which brings us to your comment on the Bible. "Alot things in the bible just don't add up." Is it reliable? Well, historians and archeologists rely heavily on it. The fact is that it has never been shown to be in error in those two disciplines. And certainly, civilized countries base much of their law on the moral principles that are found in it. Most apparent contradictions can be attributed to differences in perspective, much like two or three witnesses giving slightly different stories in a criminal trial. Rather than meaning one or the other is wrong, the different perspectives render a more complete picture.

Thats just flat out false. That all I got to say. They study it because I admit it is the most important book in the past 2,000 years.

Civilized countries? Like those countries that expelled, burnt and tortured people because they translated certain verses in the texts a certain way? Civilized is a very subjective word.

Funny that you should express yourself in that manner because that is just how the Bible describes unbelievers.

You keep on quoting the bible has if its 100% foolproof and it is a legimate historical book that hasn't been translated over and over again. There are alot of other historical dying-reborn prohpets raised from the dead in pagan texts and others and their followers seeing them alive again, both past and modern texts. How is the bible any different? So I should believe that the earth was created in a week and that its 6,000 years old? Even though scientific concrete evidence says that its not? Or that a woman was created out of a man rib? A little child in India that has a different believe isn't spiritual because he may not believe in the bible even if he is exposed to it?

Eph. 4
18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart;

And this, of course, is the reason why you make the claim "things in the bible just don't add up. You have no understanding of things that are spiritual in nature. 1 Cor. 2:14

Thats not true. I do believe in some form supreme intellegence that constructed the universe. And their is actually alot of evidence for that as well.


The question I would ask you then is why do you put your faith in things that are so unstable and wavering?

I don't operate on blind faith because I have an open mind.

i
Mt. 7
24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”

 

[CrimsonJoker]

Something to keep in mind....History is Pop Culture

 

[cannadyjason]

Science is the human way of proving God in my opinion. Science can prove the existence of God. The bible has no inconsistances, it has many things many cannot understand yes, but not inconsistances, and if so they arent of God or Christianity, but of the men who misunderstood God

Thats just simply not true, there are tons of scholary journals and evidence of biblical contridictions. But hey people can believe they want. People don't have to believe gravity exists but it still exists. The reasons why their are inconsistances is because there are a multitude of different translations by a multitude of people in the same book, sometimes contridicting one another.

 

[CrimsonJoker]

Again they are human, and how is science proving God impossible?

 

[cannadyjason]

Again they are human, and how is science proving God impossible?

Your acting like I am an athiest I didn't say anything about disapproving some sort of a higher power. I do believe some sort of supreme intellegence created the universe, but I don't think its the exact description that the bible protrays is to be.

 

[CrimsonJoker]

Not what I meant. You said science cannot prove God exists, Im asking how come it cant prove His existance

 

[cannadyjason]

Science can't conclusively prove that god 100% exists, it can't disprove it either. God means different things to different people, I really don't believe god is exactly like the one in the bible, many other religions view god differently. But If you study the universe and its mathmatical foundation and its "fine tuning" Alot of evidence points to some sort of supreme intellegence. I can use these basic agrument, the law of cause and effect. Everything in the universe is bound by the law of cause and effect. Any sort of scientific theory of the universe weither it be a random quantum flucatation or the multiverse still has a cause and effect. And all effects need causes by defention.

The Universe had a beginning around 13-14 billion years ago. The "big bang"

This means it is an effect because it had an beginning. If the universe is the first beginning. The cause couldn't have had a beginning or else is would have been an effect before it would have been a cause and it would look something like this.

effect-cause-effect.

This is an invalid agruement because the first beginning couldn't have another effect before it or else it would not be the ulimate beginning. You would need an infinite self exisiting first cause without a cause for the first beginning.

You could not have infinite effects because that would mean by defention beginnings that have always existed without any start of finish which is a logical fallacy. Infinite by defention means without limits- and a beginning and and end is a limit. So you always end up at the first ultimate beginning which would need a cause without a cause itself- which most people would call an limitless intellegence. You can't have infinite causes because that by defention would lead to infinite effects which is a logical fallacy.

 

[CrimsonJoker]

See thats the thing with me that I know many will disagree with, I do believe God Jehova Yaweh or whatever you wanna call him was the Creator of this Universe and this Realm. Now where he came from I do not know, for as you said matter cannot be made out of nothing, but at the same time the Big Bang could be what Genesis speaks of when God created the earth. The Big Bang didn't happen instantly, the universe didn't just erupt and create the Milky Way. My theory is that Science can prove that God very well may have created this Universe.

 

[cannadyjason]

But but during the big bang there an intial singularity were time,space,energy and matter was all contreacted into something the size of a dime then it exploded. You can't prove what happened before the universe because my defention the universe is everything, and it is closed. You cannot prove the supernatural because it is oustide of nature. But alot of evidence points towards a supernatural creator, thats why I believe in some sort of divine intellegence. You can read up on the cosmoligical constants on the universe that proves the exstensive fine tuning of the universe.

 

[cannadyjason]

I will admit the genisis is sounds alot like the bing bang and the creation of the universe, but alot of other religions have the same other premise so its not just confined to christianity

 

[CrimsonJoker]

i'll agree. God is the Creator of Man, and the creation of this realm has been percieved different ways. Many religions tell the same story, just in a different perspective. Now I have taken this way off subject and I apologize. One should never forfeit what they believe for another. I tried that with a girl I was madly in love with, but in the end it only ruined the relationship. She is now my best friend but not many are lucky enough to have even that at the end of the day. If you love her(which from the sounds of it you havent known her long enough) then tell her so. If you just seem to have an infatuation then move on. If she enjoys your company as much as you do her it wont matter what you believe or she does. I personally would give her space and let her come to you if time deems it appropriate. I certainly hope you find what your looking for my friend. But at the end of the day you are who you are and she is who she is. Its better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who your not.