WHY SALVATION CAN BE LOST

[LoveGodsWord]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑Do you comprehend the difference between a "gift" and a "promise"? Well, do you, now?

Well yes I do, thank you for asking. Do you understand the difference between being given a promise and when a promised is given? (see post 271 linked). Eternal life is a gift of God's grace that we receive through faith *Ephesians 2:8-9. No one said it wasn't.

I doubt it, from your posts.

My posts that have been shared with you are Gods' Word that you ignore and do not respond to and deny with your words that are not Gods Word. God is my judge who whose Word I have shared with you and his Word will be our judge come judgement day according to John 12:47-48. Not your words.

You said a believer receives a "promise" WHEN they believe, yet eternal life is described as a "gift" in Rom 6:23. So, in John 5:24 where Jesus said those who believe HAVE eternal life, He literally means they possess the GIFT of eternal life. Not a "promise" as you erroneously think.

No. I posted scripture which are Gods' Words not my words showing that God's promise of eternal life is given to everyone the moment they believe God's promise of forgiveness for their sins the very moment we hold out the hand of faith we receive Gods' promise of everlasting life. The scriptures provided earlier to you from post # 262 linked show that we have the hope of eternal life today the moment we believe Gods' Word and we receive God's promise of eternal life after our faith has been tried and our time on earth is over. If we received eternal life now, there would be no more death. According to the scriptures, Gods promise of eternal life is "conditional" to "believing" God's Word which is present participle active which means to continually be believing. If we choose to depart the faith (Hebrews 4:6-8; Hebrews 10:26-27; see also the multitude of scriptures and warnings about "departing the faith" already provided from post # 247 linked) to return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin we are no longer "believing" but have now become "unbelieving" therefore the conditions of receiving Gods' promise of being "believing" has not been met as we have become "unbelievers" who receive the justice and judgements of God already shown in the scriptures provided in post # 5 linked. If some one has departed the faith they are no longer believing but are unbelieving and the scripture is fulfilled in John 3:36 which uses the same Greek word application as John 5:24. John 3:36 [36], He that believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not (G4100 πιστεύων = believing not) the Son shall not see life but the wrath of God stays on him.

Here is what you clearly do NOT understand: Jesus gives the GIFT of eternal life WHEN a person believes in Him.

Here is what you clearly do NOT understand dear friend. According to the scriptures, we receive God's promise of eternal life that we receive by God's Grace through faith *Ephesians 2:8-9 the moment we believe Gods' Word. Our faith gives us the hope of eternal life (scriptures already posted here linked) that we receive after our faith has been tried *James 1:12 and our life is over that Jesus gives to us at His coming *Revelation 22:12

Can you exegete John 5:24 and prove your claim and refute mine?

Well yes I can, thanks for asking. John 5:24 which says [24], Truly, truly, I say to you, He that hears my word, and believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death to life. Now go look up the believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) it is a verb that is present participle active and means present tense active to "believing" so the scripture says "he that hears my words and is believing on him that sent me has everlasting life. If some one has departed the faith they are no longer believing but are unbelieving and the scripture is fulfilled in John 3:36 which uses the same Greek word application as John 5:24. Have a look at John 3:36 [36], He that believes believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him. Your welcome.

Well, then. Your reading skills are quite lacking.

Well aren't you the funny one. According to the scriptures those who judge get judged as doing the things they judge others of doing in Romans 2:1-6. Eternal life is God's promise that we receive through faith. Not unbelief and sin.

LoveGodsWord wrote: In contrast no one receives eternal life if they choose to "depart the faith" and return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin *Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 10:26-31; John 3:36.

Your response here...

Why do you keep thinking that these verses say what you keep claiming when they don't

The is repetition already answered with scripture. *Hebrews 10:26-31; Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 3:8-19 see also post # 2; post # 3; and post # 5; post # 7; post # 189 and post # 199. If someones "end is to be burned" or receiving "fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." *Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-27 it really does not seem like they are going to be receiving eternal life some how now does it which we have already shown earlier is the same fate as the wicked (see post # 5 linked). As shown in the rest of scriptures in the linked posts above Gods' salvation and gift of eternal life is conditional to believing (justification) and following (sanctification) what God's Word says. If someone chooses to "depart the faith" *Hebrews 10:26-31; Hebrews 6:4-8 and return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin they are no longer believing and following what Gods' Word says. I asked you earlier many times now. "Are you seriously trying to claim that we can not believe and follow what Gods' Word says and still receive everlasting life?"

OK, let's address the Greek word for "hope". Unlike the English, it doesn't mean a "wish". In the Greek, it means a "confident expectation".

You are totally wrong here on your claims but let me show show if it might be helpful to the discussion. Who said that the English Word for hope means wish? Perhaps you need a new
English dictionary.

.............

ENGLISH

American Dictionary of the English Language

HOPE, noun [Latin cupio.]

1. A desire of some good, accompanied with at least a slight expectation of obtaining it, or a belief that it is obtainable. hope differs from wish and desire in this, that it implies some expectation of obtaining the good desired, or the possibility of possessing it. hope therefore always gives pleasure or joy; whereas wish and desire may produce or be accompanied with pain and anxiety.

2. Confidence in a future event; the highest degree of well founded expectation of good; as a hope founded on God's gracious promises; a scriptural sense.

................

GREEK

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM,
Strong G1680 HOPE ἐλπίς (elpís | el-pece') Derivation: from a primary ἔλπω to anticipate, usually with pleasure;
Strong's: expectation (abstractly or concretely) or confidence
KJV: —faith, hope.

Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Thayer - G1680
G1680 — ἐλπίς
(sometimes written ἐλπίς; so WH in Rom 8:20; Tdf. in Acts 2:26; see (in 2 below, and) the references under the word ἀφειδον), ἐλπίδος, ἡ (ἔλπω to make to hope), the Sept. for בֶּטַח and מִבְטַח, trust; מַחְסֶה that in which one confides or to which he flees for refuge; תִּקְוָה expectation, hope; in the classics a vox media, i. e. expectation whether of good or of ill;
1. rarely in a bad sense, expectation of evil, fear; as, ἡ τῶν κακῶν ἐλπίς, Lucian, Tyrannic c. 3; τοῦ φοβοῦ ἐλπίς, Thucydides 7, 61; κακῇ ἐλπίς, Plato, rep. 1, p. 330 e. (cf. legg. 1, p. 644 c. at the end); πονηρά ἐλπίς Isa 28:19, the Sept.
2. much more frequent in the classics, and always in the N. T., in a good sense: expectation of good, hope; and in the Christian sense, joyful and confident expectation of eternal salvation: Acts 23:6; 26:7; Rom 5:4; 12:12; 15:13; 1Co 13:13; 1Pet 1:3; 3:15; ἀγαθή ἐλπίς (often in secular authors, as Plato, Phaedo 67 c.; plural ἐλπίδες ἀγαθαί, legg. 1, p. 649 b.; =

.................

Yep looks like both the Greek and English definitions both agree with what I have been sharing with you from the scriptures. That is "Hope" is the "expectation and desire of something to come in a future event". This of course once again disagrees with your teachings.

Take Care dear friend.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Nor do you believe God's Word. John 5:24 SAYS those who believe POSSESS eternal life, which you do not believe.

No that is not true at all.

It IS IS IS true because of what you have posted. You wrongly think eternal life is received at the end of one's life, when Jesus SAID those who believe POSSESS eternal life.

Your view is in direct conflict with what Jesus said.

You need to figure out WHY you can't seem to comprehend John 5:24.

I love and believe all of God's Word (see my name ).

Your name is irrelevant. How can you believe what the Bible doesn't teach. Or to be more clear, how can you believe IN CONFLICT with what Jesus clearly taught?

As posted many times now God's promise of eternal life in John 5:24 is conditional to believing Gods' Word.

And that is true. But that's not what is at issue now. The issue is WHEN a person receives the gift (not just some promise) of eternal life. Jesus said when a person believes they POSSESS eternal life.

Why can't you understand that? Other than it totally destroys your entire theological basis.

If we are not believing what Gods' Word says then according to John 3:36 we do not see life and the wrath of God stays on us.

John 3:36 applies ONLY to those who have NEVER believed.

Repetition already addressed. Eternal life is God's promise to all those believing Gods' Word.

Where does all your confusion come from? Eteranl life is a gift from God. Not some "promise" based on lifestyle, as you keep presuming.

Seems God's Word disagrees with you here dear friend...

You are the one who can't seem to read clear Scripture correctly.

The question is a genuine question based on the scripture.

Of course, you have proven over and over that you do not understand Scripture. You think eternal life is received at the end of one's life. When the gift is received WHEN one believes, as John 5:24 very clearly states.

It is not a hard question if you know the scripture and simply is asking can someone who has departed the faith to return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin still receive everlasting life (based on Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-31)?

I've answered your bogus question many times? Why can't you understand it? Other than your unbiblical bias regarding WHEN a person receives the gift of eternal life.

WHEN a person believes in Christ, Jesus SAYS they POSSESS eternal life in John 5:24. And you haven't even tried to exegete that verse in order to try to prove me wrong.

And then Jesus said in John 10:28 that recipients of eternal life (which is when they believe) shall never perish. All of which you have made clear that you don't believe.

If you do not know the answer to this question I am happy to answer it for you although the scriptures already provided answer this question. Of course these scriptures do not agree with your teachings.

Your answer is based on the fallacy that eternal life is received at the end of one's life and only received according to how one lived. False doctrine alert!!

When a person believes, they POSSESS eternal life, and not just a promise of it in the future.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Well yes I do, thank you for asking.

You haven't yet explained the difference between a literal gift and a promise of a gift.

Do you understand the difference between being given a promise and when a promised is given?

Of course I do. And Jesus said clearly in John 5:24 those who believe actually POSSESS the gift of eternal life, not just the promise of it later on, as you wrongly assume.

(see post 271 linked). Eternal life is a gift of God's grace that we receive through faith *Ephesians 2:8-9. No one said it wasn't.

If you really did believe this, why have you said eternal life is received at the end of one's life? You aren't being consistent or making any sense.

The scriptures provided earlier to you from post # 262 linked show that we have the hope of eternal life today the moment we believe Gods' Word and we receive God's promise of eternal life after our faith has been tried and our time on earth is over.

You haven't shown anything like that. But I have shown that when a person believes, they POSSESS eternal life right then. John 5:24. But go ahead and exegete that verse if you can, to show that I don't understand it.

If we received eternal life now, there would be no more death.

Then you DON'T believe John 5:24. You can't have it both ways. Either you DO believe what Jesus said and believe that when one believes they possess eternal life right now, or you don't believe what Jesus said about it.

Here is what you clearly do NOT understand dear friend. According to the scriptures, we receive God's promise of eternal life that we receive by God's Grace through faith *Ephesians 2:8-9 the moment we believe Gods' Word.

Why do you insist on forcing the word "promise" into verses that DON'T contain that word?

Our faith gives us the hope of eternal life

The Greek word means a confident expectation, not some wishful thinking.

In fact, John 5:24 means that our faith gives us the actual gift of eternal life.

Well yes I can, thanks for asking. John 5:24 which says [24], Truly, truly, I say to you, He that hears my word, and believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death to life. Now go look up the believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) it is a verb that is present participle active and means present tense active to "believing" so the scripture says "he that hears my words and is believing on him that sent me has everlasting life.

You didn't even try to discuss "has eternal life". Why didn't you?

If some one has departed the faith they are no longer believing but are unbelieving and the scripture is fulfilled in John 3:36 which uses the same Greek word application as John 5:24.

OK, so this is your "reason" huh. You don't want to face the FACT that the actual gift of eternal life is received WHEN a person believes. You don't want to admit that because that FACT destroys your unbiblical theology. It all comes crashing down.

Have a look at John 3:36 [36], He that believes believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him. Your welcome.

John 3:36 applies to those who NEVER believed.

In fact, both John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 teach that condemnation is for those who "have not believed".

Do you understand what "has not believed" means? Probably not. So I'll tell you. It means "has NEVER believed".

That is why Jesus said those who believe POSSESS eternal life and recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

See? Scripture all fits together perfectly. But your misunderstandings don't fit with anything.

I asked you earlier many times now. "Are you seriously trying to claim that we can not believe and follow what Gods' Word says and still receive everlasting life?"

I AM claiming, as the Bible teaches clearly, that those who believe POSSESS eternal life right now! Period.

Yep looks like both the Greek and English definitions both agree with what I have been sharing with you from the scriptures. This is "Hope" is the "expectation and desire of something to come in a future event". This of course once again disagrees with your teachings.

Take Care dear friend.

Why don't you believe what Jesus said about those who believe POSSESS eternal life right now?

Please explain.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You haven't yet explained the difference between a literal gift and a promise of a gift.

Sure I have. You have already been shown through the scriptures more than once now that the promise of eternal life is not the same as when we receive eternal life. God's promise of eternal life is given to everyone the moment they believe God's promise of forgiveness for their sins the very moment we hold out the hand of faith we receive Gods' promise of everlasting life.

The scriptures provided earlier to you from post # 262 linked show that we have the hope of eternal life today the moment we believe Gods' Word and we receive God's promise of eternal life after our faith has been tried and our time on earth is over. If we received eternal life now, there would be no more death. According to the scriptures, Gods promise of eternal life is "conditional" to "believing" God's Word which is present participle active which means to continually be believing.

If we choose to depart the faith (Hebrews 4:6-8; Hebrews 10:26-27; see also the multitude of scriptures and warnings about "departing the faith" already provided from post # 247 linked) to return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin we are no longer "believing" but have now become "unbelieving" therefore the conditions of receiving Gods' promise of being "believing" has not been met as we have become "unbelievers" who receive the justice and judgements of God already shown in the scriptures provided in post # 5 linked.

If some one has departed the faith they are no longer believing but are unbelieving and the scripture is fulfilled in John 3:36 which uses the same Greek word application as John 5:24. John 3:36 [36], He that believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not (G4100 πιστεύων = believing not) the Son shall not see life but the wrath of God stays on him.

Of course I do. And Jesus said clearly in John 5:24 those who believe actually POSSESS the gift of eternal life, not just the promise of it later on, as you wrongly assume. You haven't shown anything like that. But I have shown that when a person believes, they POSSESS eternal life right then. John 5:24. But go ahead and exegete that verse if you can, to show that I don't understand it. Then you DON'T believe John 5:24. You can't have it both ways. Either you DO believe what Jesus said and believe that when one believes they possess eternal life right now, or you don't believe what Jesus said about it.

No that is not true at all. It is your understanding of John 5:24 that is in error. As shown through the scriptures already, John 5:24 which says [24], Truly, truly, I say to you, He that hears my word, and believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death to life. Now go look up the believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) it is a verb that is present participle active and means present tense active to "believing" so the scripture says "he that hears my words and is believing on him that sent me has everlasting life. If some one has departed the faith they are no longer believing but are unbelieving and the scripture is fulfilled in John 3:36 which uses the same Greek word application as John 5:24. Have a look at John 3:36 [36], He that believes believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him.

Why do you insist on forcing the word "promise" into verses that DON'T contain that word?

I did not force anything into Gods Word. I simply provided Gods' Word. If you think eternal life is not a promise that God gives to those who are believing Gods' Word, I cannot help you.

The Greek word means a confident expectation, not some wishful thinking.

Exactly which only proves what I am saying to you from the start! A confident expectation is something that has not yet been received but expected to be received at a future time (see post # 281 linked in the Greek and English meaning of "hope".

In fact, John 5:24 means that our faith gives us the actual gift of eternal life.

No. John 5:24 show the conditions for receiving eternal life is "believing" (present tense indicative) Gods' Word. If we choose to "depart the faith" and return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin we are no longer believing but have become unbelieving and will not see life but the wrath of God remains on us *see John 3:36; Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 10:26-31.

You didn't even try to discuss "has eternal life". Why didn't you?

I did discuss "has eternal life" already. You did not like the scriptures shared with you though that disagree with your teachings. John 5:24 is present tense conditional to "believing". If we are not believing we do not have eternal life. As shown through the scriptures already we have the "hope" of eternal life as we believe Gods' Word. So we have the hope of eternal life today as shown in all the scriptures provided in post # 262 linked we do not receive eternal life until we have been tried (tested) *James 1:3-4; James 1:12 and our time on earth is over (death) or at the second coming. If we were received eternal life now we would be immortal now and there would be no more death.

I noticed you simply avoided answering the question asked of you again which was "Are you seriously trying to claim that we can not believe and follow what Gods' Word says and still receive everlasting life?" Are you going to answer it? Or is this a one way discussion where you believe only I am the one that has to answer questions. I will let the scriptures I have provided that disagree with your teachings do the talking.

Sorry dear friend but I do not believe you as shown through the scriptures that disagree with your teachings. So I guess we will agree to disagree

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑ Nor do you believe God's Word. John 5:24 SAYS those who believe POSSESS eternal life, which you do not believe. It IS IS IS true because of what you have posted. You wrongly think eternal life is received at the end of one's life, when Jesus SAID those who believe POSSESS eternal life.

No that is not true at all. As posted earlier once again these are simply your words that disagree with the scriptures already shared with you. I love and believe all of God's Word (see my name). As posted many times now God's promise of eternal life in John 5:24 is conditional to believing Gods' Word. If we are not believing what Gods' Word says then according to John 3:36 we do not see life and the wrath of God stays on us. There scriptures teach no where that we have received eternal life if we choose to "depart the faith" and return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin as the condition for receiving God's promise of eternal life is believing (justification) and following (sanctification) what God's Word says. We are saved by God's grace through faith and have the hope of eternal life the moment we believe Gods' Word. The scriptures provided earlier to you from post # 262 linked show that we have the hope of eternal life today the moment we believe Gods' Word and we receive God's promise of eternal life after our faith has been tried and our time on earth is over. If we received eternal life now, there would be no more death.

Your view is in direct conflict with what Jesus said. You need to figure out WHY you can't seem to comprehend John 5:24.

No. As shown through the scriptures Gods Word disagrees with your words, and your view is in direct conflict with what Jesus says. As posted many times now God's promise of eternal life in John 5:24 is conditional to believing Gods' Word. If we are not believing what Gods' Word says then according to John 3:36 we do not see life and the wrath of God stays on us. If those who choose to " depart the faith end is to be burned" or they receive instead of eternal life a "fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." *Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-27 it really does not seem like they are going to be receiving eternal life some how now does it?

Your name is irrelevant. How can you believe what the Bible doesn't teach. Or to be more clear, how can you believe IN CONFLICT with what Jesus clearly taught?

My name is indeed irrelevant. For me he must increase and I must decrease. It is your words that are in conflict with Gods' Words as shown through the scriptures already. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own. Freely I give because freely I have received. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops. Many will not hear because they do not know Him. He is the Word of God and those that believe him are those that he has chosen. They follow him because they love him and are loved by him. Many are called but few are chosen. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for he giveth not the Spirit by measure but many do not hear when they close their eyes to see and their ears to hear.

LoveGodsWord said: As posted many times now God's promise of eternal life in John 5:24 is conditional to believing Gods' Word.

Your response here...

And that is true. But that's not what is at issue now. The issue is WHEN a person receives the gift (not just some promise) of eternal life. Jesus said when a person believes they POSSESS eternal life.

Of course it is relevant. Your missing the point again. No one receives God's promise or has the hope of eternal life that we receive through faith if they are not believing God's Word. If someone chooses to depart the faith and return to a life of "unbelief" and sin as we are warned about doing in Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-31 they are no longer "believing" but are now "unbelieving" which is the condition for receiving Gods' promise of everlasting life. If we are not believing what Gods' Word says then according to John 3:36 we do not see life and the wrath of God stays on us. As shown from the scriptures earlier if we depart the faith and return to a life on unbelief and known unrepentant sin we are no longer believing which is the condition of receiving God's promise of everlasting life but have become "unbelieving". Unbelievers receive the same reward as the wicked as shown in post # 5 linked.

John 3:36 applies ONLY to those who have NEVER believed.

No. These are more of your words disagreeing with the scriptures already shared with you. There is no where in John 3:36 that says anywhere that it only applied to those who never believed. As posted and shown from the scriptures already, John 3:36 says [36], He that believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not (G4100 πιστεύων = believing not) the Son shall not see life but the wrath of God stays on him. Believing not is present tense indicative. There is no mention anywhere in this scripture that it is talking about those who never believed. The scriptures only show the present tense conditions for receiving everlasting life and the conditions for not receiving everlasting life and that is "believing". According to the scriptures someone who chooses to "depart the faith" and return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin is no longer "believing" but is now "unbelieving" and does not see life but the wrath of God remains on him (John 3:36).

Take Care dear friend.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
You haven't yet explained the difference between a literal gift and a promise of a gift.

Sure I have.

No you haven't. Making claims are easy. Providing evidence is quite something else.

You have already been shown through the scriptures more than once now that the promise of eternal life is not the same as when we receive eternal life.

Rather, I've PROVEN to you WHEN the actual gift is received from John 5:24. You have no case or clue.

God's promise of eternal life is given to everyone the moment they believe God's promise of forgiveness for their sins

John 5:24 destroys your opinion.

If some one has departed the faith they are no longer believing but are unbelieving and the scripture is fulfilled in John 3:36 which uses the same Greek word application as John 5:24. John 3:36 [36]

No, those verses aren't even applicable or relevant. But your eyes aren't open to truth.

It is your understanding of John 5:24 that is in error.

Again, you are clueless. The verse is crystal clear. Believers POSSESS eternal life. They receive the actual gift WHEN they believe.

As shown through the scriptures already, John 5:24 which says [24], Truly, truly, I say to you, He that hears my word, and believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death to life.

3 words destroy your opinion: "HAS eternal life". Why do you FAIL to understand what that means?

I did not force anything into Gods Word.

Sure you did. You keep forcing the word "promise" into verses that DON'T USE THAT WORD. It is your uninformed opinion that does this.

I simply provided Gods' Word.

You did not. You forced a word that doesn't occur in the text.

If you think eternal life is not a promise that God gives to those who are believing Gods' Word, I cannot help you.

Actually, it is you who is beyond help. Jesus said those who believe POSSESS eternal life.

Here's my proof. "has eternal life" means "possesses eternal life".

John 5:24 show the conditions for receiving eternal life is "believing" (present tense indicative) Gods' Word. If we choose to "depart the faith" and return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin we are no longer believing but have become unbelieving and will not see life but the wrath of God remains on us *see John 3:36; Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 10:26-31.

Wrong. John 5:24 says clearly that those who believe POSSESS eternal life. So what happens after receiving the actual gift is IRRELEVANT. Once eternal life is possessed, the recipient shall never perish.

But you don't believe what the Bible says.

I did discuss "has eternal life" already. You did not like the scriptures shared with you though that disagree with your teachings.

These "musings" of yours reveal your cluelessness. To HAVE eternal life is to possess eternal life.

John 5:24 is present tense conditional to "believing". If we are not believing we do not have eternal life.

Again, you are abusing the present tense. It doesn't mean one must continue to believe to continue to possess eternal life.

John 5:24 is crystal clear. Those who believe have eternal life. They have it WHEN they believe. You cannot get around the fact.

As shown through the scriptures already we have the "hope" of eternal life as we believe Gods' Word.

I have shown you that WHEN a person believes, they possess eternal life.

I noticed you simply avoided answering the question asked of you again which was "Are you seriously trying to claim that we can not believe and follow what Gods' Word says and still receive everlasting life?" Are you going to answer it?

I have repeatedly answered it. If you can't follow the discussion then why do you bother?

Your question is bogus because it assumes eternal life isn't received until the end of life. That is totally false. Eternal life is possessed when one believes.

Or is this a one way discussion where you believe only I am the one that has to answer questions.

Well, it IS a one way discussion since you seem unable to grasp the facts.

I will let the scriptures I have provided that disagree with your teachings do the talking.

No, they don't disagree at all. It's your opinions that disagree with Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace2]

No that is not true at all.

What an amazing statement! What's not true at all is your opinions.

Of course it is relevant. Your missing the point again. No one receives God's promise or has the hope of eternal life that we receive through faith if they are not believing God's Word.

If your eyes were open, you would have seen that I never missed the point. In fact, I've been making that point. Those who believe possess eternal life, as John 5:24 plainly says.

But you erroneously assume that eternal life is received at the end of life, and you have NOT provided any verses that support your phony claims.

If someone chooses to depart the faith and return to a life of "unbelief" and sin as we are warned about doing in Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-31 they are no longer "believing" but are now "unbelieving" which is the condition for receiving Gods' promise of everlasting life.

John 5:24 plainly states that eternal life is possessed WHEN a person believes.

You have been totally uncooperative. I've shown you the truth that WHEN one believes they possess eternal life, right then. That's what the present tense means.

Until you repent of your refusal to accept the clear truth of Scripture, and realize WHEN eternal life is received, there is no point in further discussion.

I seriously believe you are beyond help. You don't seem to want the truth. You only want to spread your own unbiblical notions and presumptions.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You haven't yet explained the difference between a literal gift and a promise of a gift.

Well that is not true and you post here is simply repetition that is non-responsive to the post you are quoting from. As posted many times now God's promise of eternal life in John 5:24 is conditional to believing Gods' Word.

If we are not believing what Gods' Word says then according to John 3:36 we do not see life and the wrath of God stays on us. There scriptures teach no where that we have received eternal life if we choose to "depart the faith" and return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin as the condition for receiving God's promise of eternal life is believing (justification) and following (sanctification) what God's Word says. We are saved by God's grace through faith and have the hope of eternal life the moment we believe Gods' Word.

The scriptures provided earlier to you from post # 262 linked show that we have the hope of eternal life today the moment we believe Gods' Word and we receive God's promise of eternal life after our faith has been tried and our time on earth is over.

Making claims are easy. Providing evidence is quite something else.

Agreed. Perhaps you can try providing evidence to support your teachings and discuss and address the scriptures and context of my posts and questions asked of you that disagree with your teachings.

Rather, I've PROVEN to you WHEN the actual gift is received from John 5:24. You have no case or clue. John 5:24 destroys your opinion.

Well aren't you the funny one by making more claims without any evidence to support your teachings. Mean while you have been shown from the scriptures alone that John 5:24 is conditional to believing Gods' Word.

If we are not believing what Gods' Word says then according to John 3:36 we do not see life and the wrath of God stays on us. If those who choose to " depart the faith end is to be burned" or they receive instead of eternal life a "fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." *Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-27 it really does not seem like they are going to be receiving eternal life some how now does it?

As shown through the scriptures already, John 5:24 which says [24], Truly, truly, I say to you, He that hears my word, and believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death to life.

Now go look up the believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) it is a verb that is present participle active and means present tense active to "believing" so the scripture says "he that hears my words and is believing on him that sent me has everlasting life. If some one has departed the faith they are no longer believing but are unbelieving and the scripture is fulfilled in John 3:36 which uses the same Greek word application as John 5:24.

Have a look at John 3:36 [36], He that believes believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him. Evidence provided already as proven above.

No, those verses aren't even applicable or relevant. But your eyes aren't open to truth.

Not really. These are simply more of your words unsupported by evidence or scripture. As posted earlier, if we choose to depart the faith (Hebrews 4:6-8; Hebrews 10:26-27; see also the multitude of scriptures and warnings about "departing the faith" already provided from post # 247 linked) to return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin we are no longer "believing" but have now become "unbelieving" therefore the conditions of receiving Gods' promise of being "believing" has not been met as we have become "unbelievers" who receive the justice and judgements of God already shown in the scriptures provided in post # 5 linked.

If some one has departed the faith they are no longer believing but are unbelieving and the scripture is fulfilled in John 3:36 which uses the same Greek word application as John 5:24. John 3:36 [36], He that believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not (G4100 πιστεύων = believing not) the Son shall not see life but the wrath of God stays on him. There is a lot of scripture that disagrees with your teachings here. I suggest you take some time to prayerfully consider what is being shared with you here.

Again, you are clueless. The verse is crystal clear. Believers POSSESS eternal life. They receive the actual gift WHEN they believe.

Again more of your words unsupported by evidence or scripture disagreeing with the scriptures share with you that are Gods Word.

3 words destroy your opinion: "HAS eternal life". Why do you FAIL to understand what that means?

Not at all. What your failing to realize here is that those who have the conditional promise of "eternal life" is only given to those who are "believing" Gods' Word which is present tense indicative. God's promise of eternal life is not given to those who choose to "depart the faith" and return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin as they are no longer believing but are unbelieving and do not see life according to John 3:36.

Sure you did. You keep forcing the word "promise" into verses that DON'T USE THAT WORD. It is your uninformed opinion that does this.

Not at all. Eternal life is God's promise to all those who are believing and following Gods' Word.

Here's my proof. "has eternal life" means "possesses eternal life". Wrong. John 5:24 says clearly that those who believe POSSESS eternal life. So what happens after receiving the actual gift is IRRELEVANT. Once eternal life is possessed, the recipient shall never perish.

Not at all. The context of John 5:24 is conditional to those who are believing (present tense). Someone who has departed the faith are not longer believing but unbelieving meaning that they do not receive eternal life *Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 10:26-31. Those who are believing receive Gods' promise of eternal life now.

This gives them the hope of eternal life that is an expectation of something to be received in the future which is what the Greek says and also what the scriptures teach that were all posted earlier that you simply choose to disregard with your words that are not Gods' Word. The scriptures provided earlier to you from post # 262 linked show that we have the hope of eternal life today the moment we believe Gods' Word and we receive God's promise of eternal life after our faith has been tried and our time on earth is over.

Take Care dear friend.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What an amazing statement!

Well thank you. If you liked that small section of the post you micro-quoted from my post you would like the rest of the post that says God's promise of eternal life in John 5:24 is conditional to believing Gods' Word. If we are not believing what Gods' Word says then according to John 3:36 we do not see life and the wrath of God stays on us. The scriptures teach no where that we have received eternal life if we choose to "depart the faith" and return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin as the condition for receiving God's promise of eternal life is believing (justification) and following (sanctification) what God's Word says. We are saved by God's grace through faith and have the hope of eternal life the moment we believe Gods' Word. The scriptures provided earlier to you from post # 262 linked show that we have the hope of eternal life today the moment we believe Gods' Word and we receive God's promise of eternal life after our faith has been tried and our time on earth is over. If we received eternal life now, there would be no more death.

I never missed the point. In fact, I've been making that point. Those who believe possess eternal life, as John 5:24 plainly says.

You missed the point as to why I posted that conditions to receiving eternal life is to believing what God's Word says in John 5:24. It was posted to show that if someone that chooses to "depart the faith" and no longer believes and follows what Gods' Word says does not receive everlasting life as shown in Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-31 because believing in the present tense is conditional to receiving God's promise of eternal life. The rest of your post is repetition that are simply more of your words disagreeing with God's Word unsupported by any evidence or scripture to support your teachings so we will agree to disagree here.

Take care dear friend.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Well that is not true and you post here is simply repetition that is non-responsive to the post you are quoting from. As posted many times now God's promise of eternal life in John 5:24 is conditional to believing Gods' Word.

If we are not believing what Gods' Word says then according to John 3:36 we do not see life and the wrath of God stays on us. There scriptures teach no where that we have received eternal life if we choose to "depart the faith" and return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin as the condition for receiving God's promise of eternal life is believing (justification) and following (sanctification) what God's Word says. We are saved by God's grace through faith and have the hope of eternal life the moment we believe Gods' Word.

The scriptures provided earlier to you from post # 262 linked show that we have the hope of eternal life today the moment we believe Gods' Word and we receive God's promise of eternal life after our faith has been tried and our time on earth is over.

Agreed. Perhaps you can try providing evidence to support your teachings and discuss and address the scriptures and context of my posts and questions asked of you that disagree with your teachings.

Well aren't you the funny one by making more claims without any evidence to support your teachings. Mean while you have been shown from the scriptures alone that John 5:24 is conditional to believing Gods' Word.

If we are not believing what Gods' Word says then according to John 3:36 we do not see life and the wrath of God stays on us. If those who choose to " depart the faith end is to be burned" or they receive instead of eternal life a "fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." *Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-27 it really does not seem like they are going to be receiving eternal life some how now does it?

As shown through the scriptures already, John 5:24 which says [24], Truly, truly, I say to you, He that hears my word, and believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death to life.

Now go look up the believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) it is a verb that is present participle active and means present tense active to "believing" so the scripture says "he that hears my words and is believing on him that sent me has everlasting life. If some one has departed the faith they are no longer believing but are unbelieving and the scripture is fulfilled in John 3:36 which uses the same Greek word application as John 5:24.

Have a look at John 3:36 [36], He that believes believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him. Evidence provided already as proven above.

Not really. These are simply more of your words unsupported by evidence or scripture. As posted earlier, if we choose to depart the faith (Hebrews 4:6-8; Hebrews 10:26-27; see also the multitude of scriptures and warnings about "departing the faith" already provided from post # 247 linked) to return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin we are no longer "believing" but have now become "unbelieving" therefore the conditions of receiving Gods' promise of being "believing" has not been met as we have become "unbelievers" who receive the justice and judgements of God already shown in the scriptures provided in post # 5 linked.

If some one has departed the faith they are no longer believing but are unbelieving and the scripture is fulfilled in John 3:36 which uses the same Greek word application as John 5:24. John 3:36 [36], He that believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not (G4100 πιστεύων = believing not) the Son shall not see life but the wrath of God stays on him. There is a lot of scripture that disagrees with your teachings here. I suggest you take some time to prayerfully consider what is being shared with you here.

Again more of your words unsupported by evidence or scripture disagreeing with the scriptures share with you that are Gods Word.

Not at all. What your failing to realize here is that those who have the conditional promise of "eternal life" is only given to those who are "believing" Gods' Word which is present tense indicative. God's promise of eternal life is not given to those who choose to "depart the faith" and return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin as they are no longer believing but are unbelieving and do not see life according to John 3:36.

Not at all. Eternal life is God's promise to all those who are believing and following Gods' Word.

Not at all. The context of John 5:24 is conditional to those who are believing (present tense). Someone who has departed the faith are not longer believing but unbelieving meaning that they do not receive eternal life *Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 10:26-31. Those who are believing receive Gods' promise of eternal life now.

This gives them the hope of eternal life that is an expectation of something to be received in the future which is what the Greek says and also what the scriptures teach that were all posted earlier that you simply choose to disregard with your words that are not Gods' Word. The scriptures provided earlier to you from post # 262 linked show that we have the hope of eternal life today the moment we believe Gods' Word and we receive God's promise of eternal life after our faith has been tried and our time on earth is over.

Take Care dear friend.

This is just weird. John 5:24 couldn't be more clear about the fact that WHEN a person believes, they possess (that means they received) the actual gift of eternal life.

And you seem incapable of comprehending such a clear and straightforward verse.

 

[FreeGrace2]

you would like the rest of the post that says God's promise of eternal life in John 5:24 is conditional to believing Gods' Word.

Why would I like such a phony and wrong statement?? John 5:24 DOES NOT say what you keep repeating. There is NO PROMISE in that verse. Why can't you read plain English? It'a not promise that is received when a person believes. No. It is the ACTUAL GIFT of eternal life that is received.

That's what "has eternal life" means. Really. The actual gift is received.

Since you are incapable of grasping such a simple and straightforward verse, there is no reason to take anything you say seriously regarding any other verse.

Since you can't comprehend John 5:24, why should anyone think you can comprehend any other verse?

If we received eternal life now, there would be no more death.

Obviously you are wrong, since Jesus said those who believe "have eternal life". Do you see the word "promise" anywhere in John 5:24? No, it doesn't occur in that verse.

You missed the point as to why I posted that conditions to receiving eternal life is to believing what God's Word says in John 5:24.

Actually, you missed the whole point of John 5:24. But that's because you seem incapable of grasping the straightforward message that those who believe POSSESS eternal life. The actual literal gift of eternal life.

Nothing about a "promise" as you keep misreading and presuming.

 

[Swag365]

Why would I like such a phony and wrong statement?? John 5:24 DOES NOT say what you keep repeating. There is NO PROMISE in that verse. Why can't you read plain English? It'a not promise that is received when a person believes. No. It is the ACTUAL GIFT of eternal life that is received.

That's what "has eternal life" means. Really. The actual gift is received.

Since you are incapable of grasping such a simple and straightforward verse, there is no reason to take anything you say seriously regarding any other verse.

Since you can't comprehend John 5:24, why should anyone think you can comprehend any other verse?


Obviously you are wrong, since Jesus said those who believe "have eternal life". Do you see the word "promise" anywhere in John 5:24? No, it doesn't occur in that verse.


Actually, you missed the whole point of John 5:24. But that's because you seem incapable of grasping the straightforward message that those who believe POSSESS eternal life. The actual literal gift of eternal life.

Nothing about a "promise" as you keep misreading and presuming.

Well a strict literal interpretation of "eternal life" in the verse makes no sense. The soul is immortal. All men, whether they go to Heaven, or whether they go to Hell, will "live forever". So obviously the phrase "eternal life" is not intended to be taken a strict literal since, because everyone "lives forever" anyway. When the phrase "possess eternal life" is written, it is meant in the sense of "are saved". "Possess eternal life" is a figure of speech. It is not as if "eternal life" is a physical object that one hold's in one hands, like "I possess 500 gold coins". The sentence means the same thing as "those who believe are saved". And that's absolutely true that those who believe are saved. But it does not logically conclude from there that they will "remain saved" until the day that they die.

The phrase "eternal life" is also used in the sense of "salvation", "Heaven" or "go to Heaven". You can see various types of figurative uses of the phrase "eternal life" if you do a quick search of the phrase in the New Testament.

And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me.”

And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

Already the one who reaps is receiving wages and gathering fruit for eternal life, so that sower and reaper may rejoice together.

Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and about which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

You can also see phrases where NT writers speak about "eternal life" as a future event:

Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of God's elect and their knowledge of the truth, which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began.

And it's not like St. Paul didn't already believe the gospel when he wrote that.

So there really does not seem to be any justification for your overly-literal reading of the text there. "Possess eternal life" is a figure of speech.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

This is just weird. John 5:24 couldn't be more clear about the fact that WHEN a person believes, they possess (that means they received) the actual gift of eternal life. And you seem incapable of comprehending such a clear and straightforward verse.

As shown through the scriptures already, your reading into the scriptures what the scriptures do not teach by disregarding the conditions for receiving eternal life and the warnings given in scripture that warn us not to return to unbelief and sin. Please see post # 289 linked. As posted earlier; God's promise of eternal life is given to everyone the moment they believe God's promise of forgiveness for sins the very moment we hold out the hand of faith we receive Gods' promise of everlasting life. The scriptures provided earlier to you from post # 262 linked show that we have the hope of eternal life today the moment we believe Gods' Word and we are given God's promise of eternal life after our faith has been tried and our time on earth is over. If we were already given eternal life now, there would be no more death which is not the case now.

Take care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Why would I like such a phony and wrong statement?? John 5:24 DOES NOT say what you keep repeating. There is NO PROMISE in that verse. Why can't you read plain English? It'a not promise that is received when a person believes. No. It is the ACTUAL GIFT of eternal life that is received.

That's what "has eternal life" means. Really. The actual gift is received.

Since you are incapable of grasping such a simple and straightforward verse, there is no reason to take anything you say seriously regarding any other verse.

Since you can't comprehend John 5:24, why should anyone think you can comprehend any other verse?


Obviously you are wrong, since Jesus said those who believe "have eternal life". Do you see the word "promise" anywhere in John 5:24? No, it doesn't occur in that verse.


Actually, you missed the whole point of John 5:24. But that's because you seem incapable of grasping the straightforward message that those who believe POSSESS eternal life. The actual literal gift of eternal life.

Nothing about a "promise" as you keep misreading and presuming.

Sorry dear friend but I respectfully disagree. Your post here is simply repetition of your words already posted elsewhere unsupported by evidence which has been already addressed in detail with scripture evidence from Gods' Word that disagrees with your teachings. So we will have to agree to disagree.

Take care

 

[prophecy_uk]

If we were already given eternal life now, there would be no more death which is not the case now.

Take care.

There is no more death now, all live unto Him and Christ destroyed him who had the power over death....



Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.




Luke 20:38
For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.



Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.


Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.


Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

 

[prophecy_uk]

Salvation is belief, and by believing in men who tell what they believe in, it gives no belief in Jesus Christ, that is by believing in what Christ tells us, Himself.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Well a strict literal interpretation of "eternal life" in the verse makes no sense. The soul is immortal. All men, whether they go to Heaven, or whether they go to Hell, will "live forever". So obviously the phrase "eternal life" is not intended to be taken a strict literal since, because everyone "lives forever" anyway. When the phrase "possess eternal life" is written, it is meant in the sense of "are saved". "Possess eternal life" is a figure of speech. It is not as if "eternal life" is a physical object that one hold's in one hands, like "I possess 500 gold coins". The sentence means the same thing as "those who believe are saved". And that's absolutely true that those who believe are saved.

Correct. And to clarify further, the status of having "eternal life" is contrasted with those whose names are not written in the Book of Life, and will be cast into the lake of fire after the Great White Throne Judgment. And the Bible describes this as the "second death".

So, eternal life is opposite of the second death. One either goes to heaven or goes to the lake of fire.

But it does not logically conclude from there that they will "remain saved" until the day that they die.

You should read John 5:24 more carefully, if you really believe that.

“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

This verse tells us quite clearly the result of believing in Jesus Christ:

1. they POSSESS eternal life.
2. they WILL NOT BE judged. Doesn't say "may not", it says WILL NOT.
3. they have crossed over from spiritual death to eternal life.

Where do you see any kind of wording that would even suggest that these things are conditioned on something else? I don't.

Plus, we have Jesus' plain words in John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

We see that Jesus is the Giver of eternal life, and we saw from John 5:24 that occurs WHEN a person believes.

And the result of receiving the gift of eternal life is clearly stated: and they shall never perish.

So the Bible teaches in the clearest of words that from the MOMENT of faith in Christ, the person shall never perish, or experience the second death.

You can also see phrases where NT writers speak about "eternal life" as a future event:

Right. A bit of discernment and one should obviously realize that is referring to eternity itself. But John 5:24 is very clear; the actual gift of eternal life is received WHEN one believes.

So there really does not seem to be any justification for your overly-literal reading of the text there. "Possess eternal life" is a figure of speech.

So you just make up your own rules and believe whatever you want to, huh.

When John 5:24 and 10:28 are combined, it is very obvious that salvation is permanent.

 

[FreeGrace2]

As shown through the scriptures already, your reading into the scriptures what the scriptures do not teach by disregarding the conditions for receiving eternal life

This is a phony claim. The single condition for receiving eternal life is found in John 5:24, a verse that you have repeatedly demonstrated as being unable to understand it.

Those who believe POSSESS eternal life. It couldn't be more simple. So I haven't disregarding anything, other than your unbiblical opinions.

and the warnings given in scripture that warn us not to return to unbelief and sin.

Yes, Scripture DOES warn believers not to return to unbelief/sin. But it's NOT about losing salvation, as you presume, and without any verses that say what you claim.

The warning are about loss of eternal reward, which are earned, and God's hand of divine discipline, which is PAINFUL according to Heb 12:11.

Your faulty view that the Bible warns of loss of salvation is actually heretical, given what Jesus taught in John 10:28. Your claims are directly in opposition to what Jesus said.

Please see post # 289 linked.

No thank you. Because you have failed to comprehend the simple message of John 5:24 and 10:28, there is no reason to look at ANY of your linked posts.

You have demonstrated a failure of comprehending very clearly worded verses. So I can't accept anything you say about any verse, for that reason.

As posted earlier; God's promise of eternal life is given to everyone the moment they believe God's promise of forgiveness for sins the very moment we hold out the hand of faith we receive Gods' promise of everlasting life.

You've said this repeatedly, as if true, but you haven't quoted ANY verse that says what you keep claiming.

I, otoh, have quoted a verse that tells us clearly that those who believe POSSESS eternal life.

Not a "promise" of a later reception of eternal life, as you erroneously presume, but the actual gift of eternal life. John 5:24, the verse that you repeatedly fail to comprehend.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Sorry dear friend but I respectfully disagree.

It doesn't matter what you agree with or disagree with. Your atrocious misunderstanding of very clearly worded verses puts you on the OUTS with Scripture.

Your entire theology is based on the unbiblical notion that eternal life is received at the end of one's life. Yet you haven't proven that from Scripture. So it's only your uninformed opinion.

Only if you come to your senses and realize what John 5:24 and 10:28 says, will you finally line up with Scripture, instead of being AGAINST Scripture, as you are now doing.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Salvation is belief, and by believing in men who tell what they believe in, it gives no belief in Jesus Christ, that is by believing in what Christ tells us, Himself.

Could you please re-phrase all this? As is, it doesn't make sense.

Salvation is NOT belief. Salvation is THROUGH FAITH. Quite different. The rest of your statement needs to be re-worded.

Thanks.