WHY??? Questions for my brethren in Christ

pescador · Oct 18, 2020

genez said:
Oh God help us! Paul used the competitive sports as analogies to describe the Christian way of life at times. He enjoyed good competition and understood a real man's world. We are not to become self justifying pious religious wimps. Its not what God intended.

We do not celebrate the same pagan holidays. We transformed them and owned them. No one even knows the pagan origins today,unless someone brings up the details needed to become conscious of what paganism once promoted. The old pagan meanings have been buried and new flowers grew above. Its Satan that feels neglected and rejected, and wants to draw attention to what is now been forgotten by telling of all the pagan origins. Wake up! Glorify Christ! Caesars face appeared on coins, but Christians used them to pay for the needs to believers. Wake up.

Let what has been buried buried. As far as TV shows? There are still plenty of good choices if you get cable and many channels. Choose today which shows you are going to watch. We are not of the world, but for now must live in it. A wise soul wins many souls. He knows the ways of the world, but will not become one with them. Happiness in your soul that God will give as we mature is the magnet to draw others out of it. Being an isolationists is hiding ones soul under a bushel basket.

Thanks for this great post! When Brother D or anyone else begins their post with "The majority of the followers of Christ lack a knowledge of God’s standards. Some have been led astray from the pure words of the Lord by false teachers. Some love that one particular sin and will refuse to hear anyone that calls it out", my immediate reaction is "Oy! Here we go again". It's as though he has polled "the majority of good Christians" and found out that they, unlike him, are just dupes.

By contrast, your post is clear and positive and demonstrates the attitude that all Christians should have in today's world. Hopefully this attitude will prevail and let others in the body of Christ live a full life of joy in the Lord, as is His intention.

pescador · Oct 18, 2020

BrotherD said:
How is asking questions that has truth in it looking down on our brethren. As stated before the only people who may have any issues with the OP is those who's sins may be called out in it. I am coming from nothing but a place of love. I am not condemning any who do these things to eternal death rather I am calling sin by its right name. The truth is love.

I am nothing. I am not a pastor. I am just a man that Christ has brought from the pits of hell and turned my life around. I was deceived on all these points but it took someone to tell me the truth to wake me up to the reality that I might not be serving God fully. We can attain that Christ like character. God calls us to be perfect but of course it is only by Christ's righteousness.

When you write "I am coming from nothing but a place of love. I am not condemning any who do these things to eternal death rather I am calling sin by its right name. The truth is love" you're deluding yourself. You're being self-righteous and putting yourself above the rest of the Body of Christ. I am glad that you have turned your personal life around, but now you must turn your judgement of others around. Jesus said to love God and to love your neighbor as yourself. When you regard your neighbor with love instead of unwarranted judgement you will be doing the will of God.

ViaCrucis · Oct 18, 2020

BrotherD said:
Those holidays that the world and Christians like to celebrate are of pagan origin.

This is false.

The same "Christian holidays are actually pagan" arguments are fundamentally no different than the Christ Myth nonsense--Jesus is actually just an amalgam of pagan stories and myths, from Mithras, to Dionysus, to Osirus. It's bunk, without any shred of scholarly substance.

-CryptoLutheran

Jesse Dornfeld · Oct 19, 2020

I do not struggle with the majority of the things you listed because God is sanctifying me to live and holy life through the Spirit. I am not here to condemn anyone else, but I have found much more joy in Christ when I cherish Him in obedience. I still have a long way to go, but I have cut out video games, TV, movies, competition, non-Christian holidays and a couple other things you mentioned. My relationship with Christ has never been stronger. My biggest concerns now are living wisely with money, keeping my apartment cleaner than what it usually is, making a concerted effort to share my faith with people around me, and reading the Bible more.

Cis.jd · Oct 19, 2020

BrotherD said:
The majority of the followers of Christ lack a knowledge of God’s standards. Some have been led astray from the pure words of the Lord by false teachers. Some love that one particular sin and will refuse to hear anyone that calls it out. God’s standard is Jesus Christ our Lord and anything short of that should be acceptable for all of us, myself included.

Why have we as a church body adopted so many of the world's customs? Why do we celebrate the same holidays as the pagans and not the Lord’s holy days that are mentioned in the bible? Some may say that we aren't Jewish and to that I ask well are we heathens?

Why do we love competition, as in sports, game night, video games, etc? Do you not understand that the spirit behind these things is “PRIDE”? Some might say that I do it for fun but somebody will still lose.

Why do we watch tv shows that glorify the sins of the flesh such as Galatians 5:19-21 list?

Why is it hard to distinguish between a Christian and a worldly person? Instead of us converting them, they are converting us to their ways. What says the Lord:

2 Corinthians 6:14,17-18
[14]Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
[17]Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
[18]And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Why do we say we follow God but hold to the traditions of men that cannot be found in the bible?

Why do we get offended by the truth? One of the fruits of the Spirit is love right? Well love is not easily provoked (to irritated, aroused to anger) according to 1 Corinthians 13:4-5. So why take offense? Could it be that it goes straight to the heart of a cherished sin?

In these last days we need to search our hearts. We must humble ourselves in the sight of the Lord and pray that we are fit for the kingdom of heaven. We can appear to be righteous on the outside but the Lord knows what lies in our hearts. Some may get offended by these questions but that is not my intention. My intention is to raise up the standard that God has set in his holy word. We all, myself included, will have to stand in the judgment. Will you be found wanting or be welcomed with open arms by our lovely savior Christ Jesus?

There are many christians who are so deluded that they think they have better knowledge or connection to God due to various verses they self-interpreted, hence judging the most harmless to ridiculous things ignorantly, and just categorizing it as "worldly". It's absolute arrogance and ignorance mixed together IMO.

It makes God look so small and so insecure that he is that obsessed with attention that he doesn't like his creations being happy with other things because he needs to be the attention. These views illustrate a weaker version of the Christian God more than anything holy and great. It's more of an embodiment of the persons views that he needs to feel is correct by making an enforcing image of it.

Maria Billingsley · Oct 19, 2020

BrotherD said:
I am going to present a few questions that are designed to get my fellow brothers and sisters to think. The majority of the followers of Christ lack a knowledge of God’s standards. Some have been led astray from the pure words of the Lord by false teachers. Some love that one particular sin and will refuse to hear anyone that calls it out. God’s standard is Jesus Christ our Lord and anything short of that should be acceptable for all of us, myself included.

Why have we as a church body adopted so many of the world's customs? Why do we celebrate the same holidays as the pagans and not the Lord’s holy days that are mentioned in the bible? Some may say that we aren't Jewish and to that I ask well are we heathens?

Why do we love competition, as in sports, game night, video games, etc? Do you not understand that the spirit behind these things is “PRIDE”? Some might say that I do it for fun but somebody will still lose.

Why do we watch tv shows that glorify the sins of the flesh such as Galatians 5:19-21 list?

Why is it hard to distinguish between a Christian and a worldly person? Instead of us converting them, they are converting us to their ways. What says the Lord:

2 Corinthians 6:14,17-18
[14]Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
[17]Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
[18]And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Why do we say we follow God but hold to the traditions of men that cannot be found in the bible?

Why do we get offended by the truth? One of the fruits of the Spirit is love right? Well love is not easily provoked (to irritated, aroused to anger) according to 1 Corinthians 13:4-5. So why take offense? Could it be that it goes straight to the heart of a cherished sin?

In these last days we need to search our hearts. We must humble ourselves in the sight of the Lord and pray that we are fit for the kingdom of heaven. We can appear to be righteous on the outside but the Lord knows what lies in our hearts. Some may get offended by these questions but that is not my intention. My intention is to raise up the standard that God has set in his holy word. We all, myself included, will have to stand in the judgment. Will you be found wanting or be welcomed with open arms by our lovely savior Christ Jesus?

And how do we know God`s standards? The will of the Father ?
Through His Holy Spirit. Be blessed.

BrotherD · Oct 19, 2020

pescador said:
Why this fundamentalist rant?

You wrote, "The majority of the followers of Christ lack a knowledge of God’s standards. Some have been led astray from the pure words of the Lord by false teachers." How do you know this? Have you polled the majority of the followers of Christ? Do you claim to know God's standards while others are ignorant? Shame on you.

You wrote, "Some love that one particular sin and will refuse to hear anyone that calls it out." How do you know this? Have you asked other Christians what one particular sin they love? If they "refuse to hear anyone that calls it out", could it be the manner in which it is called out? Maybe they understand loving their neighbor and gently showing them their error (if it even exists).

You wrote, "Why do we love competition, as in sports, game night, video games, etc? Do you not understand that the spirit behind these things is “PRIDE”? Ephesians 6:10-18, "Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."

Why do you keep writing "we"? Are you including yourself among the brothers and sisters in Christ whom you criticize? Or, more appropriately, who are you to criticize the many millions of Christians whom you have never met? It may make you feel superior and self-righteous to condemn (in general) the body of Christ with no proof other than your own bias, but the effect it has on others like myself is what you think it is.

Finally, you wrote, "Why do we get offended by the truth? One of the fruits of the Spirit is love right?" Why not give it a try yourself?

I say we because i am no better then he next and i need to examine myself as well. It isn't criticism but truth my friend. We are called to be holy and separate and pure. Is there anything wrong with seeking what Christ tells us to pursue? I stand by the truth as it is written and i am in no wise condemning you or others. To follow Christ is to be different from the world not the same.

BrotherD · Oct 19, 2020

genez said:
Oh God help us! Paul used the competitive sports as analogies to describe the Christian way of life at times. He enjoyed good competition and understood a real man's world. We are not to become self justifying pious religious wimps. Its not what God intended.

We do not celebrate the same pagan holidays. We transformed them and owned them. No one even knows the pagan origins today,unless someone brings up the details needed to become conscious of what paganism once promoted. The old pagan meanings have been buried and new flowers grew above. Its Satan that feels neglected and rejected, and wants to draw attention to what is now been forgotten by telling of all the pagan origins. Wake up! Glorify Christ! Caesars face appeared on coins, but Christians used them to pay for the needs to believers. Wake up.

Let what has been buried buried. As far as TV shows? There are still plenty of good choices if you get cable and many channels. Choose today which shows you are going to watch. We are not of the world, but for now must live in it. A wise soul wins many souls. He knows the ways of the world, but will not become one with them. Happiness in your soul that God will give as we mature is the magnet to draw others out of it. Being an isolationists is hiding ones soul under a bushel basket.

I walk among unbelievers stand fast in the faith. I believe the truth is more appealing then conformity. As far as the holidays go, God forbid we take something that was all about idolatry and re-brand it as sacred and holy. What does God really think of these things. Yes when I was in the world I loved the "spirit" behind the holidays. I now I know what that "spirit" is and it is contrary to the Spirit of Christ.

I understand what he means now when he say be a light unto the world. As i pursue holiness to the Lord, I grasp hold of faith and let it do its wonderful work. I plead with my brethren to understand how we have been put to sleep by the enemy and now when one speaks the truth many become offended. Can we not speak the truth in love any more?

BrotherD · Oct 19, 2020

Bèlla said:
I treat public holidays as secular events. They're good for gathering and being a beacon of light for others. My spirit is attuned to the Jewish calendar. Those are the holidays I recognize in my walk.

This is understandable. I have not participated in any holidays in about 2 years but I have attended a kids birthday party [nothing major] but i noticed that they have no intentions of hearing about the Lord. I notice my attention is drawn away from the Lord. I tip my hat to you if you can maintain a pure mind in such atmospheres.

Bèlla said:
Or they enjoy the challenge of testing their prowess against others. Maybe it inspires their work ethic and pushes them beyond their comfort zone.

We should exhort each other to good works as Christians not for the pursuit of worldly honors. Sports satisfies the flesh. I loved everything about it until i seen what it really does to the mind.

Thank you for your post. It is always good to see where others are at in their walk.

pescador · Oct 19, 2020

BrotherD said:
I say we because i am no better then he next and i need to examine myself as well. It isn't criticism but truth my friend. We are called to be holy and separate and pure. Is there anything wrong with seeking what Christ tells us to pursue? I stand by the truth as it is written and i am in no wise condemning you or others. To follow Christ is to be different from the world not the same.

However, you wrote "The majority of the followers of Christ lack a knowledge of God’s standards. Some have been led astray from the pure words of the Lord by false teachers."

So, unlike yourself, almost everyone else "lack a knowledge of God's standards". Then you say "I stand by the truth as it is written and i am in no wise condemning you or others", implying that others lack your pure understanding, thereby contradicting yourself almost immediately.

Why are you trying to impress others with your supposed superiority?

BrotherD · Oct 19, 2020

NerdGirl123 said:
I'm more bothered by the church's frantic attempts to become some sort of millenial, Starbucks-wannabe, bookstore/cafe, where you can sit on plush couches and watch the sermon on a TV monitor instead of walking twenty feet into the sanctuary, than I am about whether someone enjoys Christmas or not.

Those are some good points. Those kinds of churches are designed to fill seats and that is all. We should be somewhat concerned about celebrating the Lord's birth on the day that pagans celebrate the "sun's" birthday.

NerdGirl123 said:
Because they're fun? Losing doesn't have to be something awful. Go into the game with a proper attitude and it's enjoyable for everyone, no matter who wins or loses. Competition is a healthy trait, as is pride in a job well done, as is learning to handle disappointment and loss.

True losing does not have to be awful and a game could be enjoyable. Most of the time somebody's pride will swell. The world's competition is different from one a christian might pursue, although i would like to know how can a christian be competitive with another brother or sister without offending the person.

NerdGirl123 said:
It's not.

It is very hard to distinguish between a Christian and an unbeliever as stated in the OP. I follow biblical doctrine and most professed Christians ask what religion am I. I show my position from the bible and many will hear none of it.

NerdGirl123 said:
Like what? Not every thing we encounter in our daily lives is "found in the Bible".

As in God's holy days vs man's holidays. The eating of clean and unclean meats. Following the law by faith vs the law being abolished, etc.

NerdGirl123 said:
Which truth are you claiming that "we" are offended by?

Any truth that a brother or sister presents, not just the ones presented in the OP. Also many of these things listed has struck a sin of some, but it is not meant to point fingers or fault find.

BrotherD · Oct 19, 2020

Jipsah said:
Why minus the sacrifices? If you're gonna keep the Law, why not keep it all? And on that note, what is it in the Law that forbids us to celebrate the Resurrection of our Lord, the most important day in the history of the universe? The day we proclaim before the whole unbelieving world "CHRIST IS RISEN! HE IS RISEN INDEED! Why must we, along with athesists, Muslims, Buddhists, unbelieving Jews, and what have you, ignore our Lord Christ's Triumph over death? May it never be!

When Jesus said it is finished and the veil was rent in two, that was the end of the sacrificial system.

1 Corinthians 5:7-8
[7]Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
[8]Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Christ is our sacrifice so there is no need to keep that part of the law in which he abolished. The Lord's supper is one way we should celebrate the feast days.

You are right we should celebrate the Lord's death and resurrection and that is why the Passover should be kept and not Easter.

GenemZ · Oct 19, 2020

BrotherD said:
I walk among unbelievers stand fast in the faith. I believe the truth is more appealing then conformity. As far as the holidays go, God forbid we take something that was all about idolatry and re-brand it as sacred and holy. What does God really think of these things. Yes when I was in the world I loved the "spirit" behind the holidays. I now I know what that "spirit" is and it is contrary to the Spirit of Christ.

I understand what he means now when he say be a light unto the world. As i pursue holiness to the Lord, I grasp hold of faith and let it do its wonderful work. I plead with my brethren to understand how we have been put to sleep by the enemy and now when one speaks the truth many become offended. Can we not speak the truth in love any more?

You have no idea about what you claim. Its always been done that way. Many of the words Paul and John coined (in the Greek) were swiped straight from Greek and Roman pagan philosophies and religion. That is why some who have only a cursory understanding of the Greek, claim Paul and John were influenced by pagan religions.... Its not the case. Paul and John stole away their thinking and showed how Christ is the true answer for what the pagans could never attain.

BrotherD · Oct 19, 2020

Jipsah said:
It means we ought not do those things, duh. Lessee, Nope, never made the young'uns pass through the fire. The thought never occured to me, and anyway my wife woulda had my hide. Never used divination, or consulted an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. Always knew those folks were frauds and thieves and liars and cheats whose goal was to swindle people, bilk widows, rob the ignorant and credulous, and generally control the simple-minded who believe their crud. There's a reason those things are abominable, because they're all lies and deceits, and most of them deceive their victims into believing that they speak with the voice of God when in fact they're doing Satan's work. Very nasty stuff indeed.

I agree with you. Do you believe it is just as sinful to watch shows that promote these things as well?

BrotherD · Oct 19, 2020

Jipsah said:
Patently untrue. Christmas is the celebration of our Lord's birth, punto/ The old "pagans use to do something on that day" is rubbish. Pagans probably did *something* every day, are to cede the entire calendar to them? "Nope, can't worship the Lord today, the Kwacala People in the lower Unbwebwe valley used to worship the Tater God on that day, so it's Pagan!". Nemmind that the Kwacala were absorbed into the surrounding tribes a few centuries ago, and the Tater God never existed, they now own 5 November in fee simple for all eternity. Beside that, the Kwacala word for "tater" sounds a lot like the Tagalog word for Easter, and Easter came from an Eqyptian goddess of something or other, so worshipping on 11/5 is actually worshiping the Tater God.

That's the sort of dreck that's offered to establish a "pagan" source for Christian feasts. Utter hogwash, that comes from deciding a priori that Christian feasts must be pagan, then working away like murder to "prove" that they are. Not only intellectually dishonest, but completely fraudulent.

Read that again. Christ is our Passover. The foreshadowing is past, the reality has come.

St. Paul was a Jew. I am not.

How many heathen you know who celebrate Easter (or as it's better called in Korean, "Resurrection Day")? How many proclaim HE IS RISEN? How many Buddhists hit the churches for Midnight Mass on December 25th? (Which is NOT, BTW, the bloody solstice)? The "the heathen celebrate Christuan feasts" canard is untrue, however oft repeated.

All of the mainstream Christian holidays were celebrated before Christ came. The feast days are instituted from God. They are very distinct. There is biblical evidence that the Lord was born on the feast of tabernacles and not on December 25th. Daniel 7:25 says that one will "think" to change God's times and laws. It is not a Jewish thing to celebrate the feast because the feast testify of Christ's mission.

BrotherD · Oct 19, 2020

Cis.jd said:
There are many christians who are so deluded that they think they have better knowledge or connection to God due to various verses they self-interpreted, hence judging the most harmless to ridiculous things ignorantly, and just categorizing it as "worldly". It's absolute arrogance and ignorance mixed together IMO.

It makes God look so small and so insecure that he is that obsessed with attention that he doesn't like his creations being happy with other things because he needs to be the attention. These views illustrate a weaker version of the Christian God more than anything holy and great. It's more of an embodiment of the persons views that he needs to feel is correct by making an enforcing image of it.

1 Peter 1:16 KJV — Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Where is this written?

Leviticus 19:2 KJV — Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the LORD your God am holy.

Leviticus 20:7 KJV — Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the LORD your God.

What does Peter mean by holy?

sacred (physically, pure, morally blameless or religious, ceremonially, consecrated)

How can we receive happiness from any other person or thing but Christ? To do the Lord's will is joyful and to be in his presence is worth more then the next breath. What does king David say:

Psalm 84:10 KJV — For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness.

BrotherD · Oct 19, 2020

Maria Billingsley said:
And how do we know God`s standards? The will of the Father ?
Through His Holy Spirit. Be blessed.

True and in his holy scriptures. He speaks to us through his Word.

BrotherD · Oct 19, 2020

pescador said:
However, you wrote "The majority of the followers of Christ lack a knowledge of God’s standards. Some have been led astray from the pure words of the Lord by false teachers."

So, unlike yourself, almost everyone else "lack a knowledge of God's standards". Then you say "I stand by the truth as it is written and i am in no wise condemning you or others", implying that others lack your pure understanding, thereby contradicting yourself almost immediately.

Why are you trying to impress others with your supposed superiority?

This is true and i was right with them but all the glory be to God he has led me out of the confusion and lies by his grace. I seek to help others with the little knowledge that i have. In Elijah's day most of Israel was deceived about the true worship of God. As it was then, so it is now. This is not me being better then others, but it is the truth.

BrotherD · Oct 19, 2020

genez said:
You have no idea about what you claim. Its always been done that way. Many of the words Paul and John coined (in the Greek) were swiped straight from Greek and Roman pagan philosophies and religion. That is why some who have only a cursory understanding of the Greek, claim Paul and John were influenced by pagan religions.... Its not the case. Paul and John stole away their thinking and showed how Christ is the true answer for what the pagans could never attain.

I do not understand what you are trying to say here.

BrotherD · Oct 19, 2020

pescador said:
When you write "I am coming from nothing but a place of love. I am not condemning any who do these things to eternal death rather I am calling sin by its right name. The truth is love" you're deluding yourself. You're being self-righteous and putting yourself above the rest of the Body of Christ. I am glad that you have turned your personal life around, but now you must turn your judgement of others around. Jesus said to love God and to love your neighbor as yourself. When you regard your neighbor with love instead of unwarranted judgement you will be doing the will of God.

You do not understand my friend, no matter how clear i try to make it. These conversations do not edify neither one of us. I respectfully bow out.

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