• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Why pray to god?

Hikarifuru

Shine Bravely
Nov 11, 2013
3,379
269
✟28,053.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
I have a friend who had a heart attack so now there are hundreds of Christians praying for their God to help him. they believe that they need to pray and ask there god to intervene and that somehow their prayers make a difference on whether or not their god can or will intervene.

I suppose that if my friend does not recover that they will conclude that it was not the will of God if that is the conclusion and the will of God was the final determination does that not undermine the need of individuals to pray?
 

1watchman

Overseer
Site Supporter
Oct 9, 2010
6,040
1,228
Washington State
✟358,418.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You put that assertion in the form of a question, Dean. You very well know (and reject faith and obedience to God by your past strong statements) that true "born again" believers in Christ are enjoined by God to pray for those in need and seek their good. So what is your point in this challenge? It sounds like you are still trying to plant the seed against faith in God and His Word.
 
Upvote 0
A

Andrea411

Guest
To see why you believe you should pray and equally believe that his will is done regardless of the prayer.

Does your friend have a name? Did you want us to pray for him? Yes, the Lord does hear our prayers.
The last time I heard the mortality rate for humans was still at 100% but the Lord may grant your friend more time if that is His will.
Please don't be insulting by saying 'their god', you know very well that is derogatory. Jesus is not a god, He is God. May you have a revelation of His love and majesty in your own life as well as the friend you have that is now in need. May the Lord grant him favor in this life and in the life to come. :prayer:
God bless, andrea
 
Upvote 0

Abandoned Barns

Powered by Grace
May 12, 2014
127
24
57
South Carolina
✟22,867.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I get what you're asking. I've wondered about the same thing myself quite a bit, and I'm still not sure that I know the answer, but I'm going to tell you what I think anyway - lucky you! :)

Jesus had a way of asking people if they wanted to be healed:

John 5 (ESV) said:
5 One man was there who had been an invalid for thirty-eight years. 6 When Jesus saw him lying there and knew that he had already been there a long time, he said to him, “Do you want to be healed?”

that always seemed a little funny to me; as if why bother even asking - Yeah, he wants to be healed! What do you think? It felt like a silly formality and I would even feel a little resentful - like I was wasting my time by having to read it. As a Christian, I believe that everything that is in the bible, is in the bible for a reason, but for the life of me I couldn't figure out why this was necessary. It took me a long time to realize that maybe this man did not want to be healed. Thirty-eight years; that's a long time. A long time to be relying on charity. A long time to not have to have a job, a skill, responsibility or expectations placed on you. A long time to learn that your affliction is actually your greatest assert. Should Jesus decide to heal that man, in an instant his life would be changed. Everything he knew, the means of his survival and everything he thought about himself that very moment would be gone. Surly Jesus knew this man's heart, but did this man know his own?

Bo, check out your Facebook, I can promise you that you'll find friends on there who don't want to be healed. People who, aware of it or not, are simply not happy unless they have something to fuss about. Some people just don't know to relate to the world without a sob story.

Now I certainly don't mean to imply that your friend does not wish to recover, but one thing I've noticed about prayer is that through the act of forcing myself to bring my requests to him, I kind of have to strip away all the bologna that I can employ in speaking to others or in my own head about what and why I really think that I want/need/desire something. Because he already knows, I have to be honest with him and therefore honest with myself. I do not understand the mind of God, so I cannot say with certainty that he has not resolved, for whatever reason, to heal a person if prayers are said on their behalf. I don't know. I do know that prayers of petition require faith

Mark 11 (ESV) said:
22 And Jesus answered them, “Have faith in God. 23 Truly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will come to pass, it will be done for him. 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

and as Christians the act of relying on faith is beneficial to us. Maybe that's why he want's us to do so. We pray, as an act of obedience, because we are instructed to, but I think the benefit is far more ours than his.

Anyway, that's what I think.

Edited to say: I'm really sorry about your friend Bo, and for what it's worth; I'll be praying for him as well - and you.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

seashale76

Unapologetic Iconodule
Dec 29, 2004
14,046
4,454
✟209,052.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Melkite Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Prayer has been called 'the breath of the soul'. Prayer is an act of spiritual communion with and glorification of God- and when we do so- we are also united with all of the spiritual world. Prayer encompasses praise, thanksgiving, and petition. It is supposed to be the goal of a Christian to learn to pray without ceasing (as per I Thess. 5:17). This is literally learning to be with God in your thoughts- where one unites their mind with their heart. In effect, it is a constant acknowledgment of God's presence. The effect of prayer is the Holy Spirit strengthening our faith, hope, love, consoles us, empowers us to do good works- and essentially gives us everything that is truly good for us.

Prayer is NOT just about petitioning God for things like healing.
 
Upvote 0
A

Andrea411

Guest
Andrea

Im sorry if i seem negative. Im just upset over his problem and that all these people are calling upon an idea that often angers me to help him.

Now im just asking about prayer because it seems conflicting.

I've been a Christian for many years. I've seen too many answers to prayer to accept conflicting as a valid alternative. You offer nothingness as an alternative to a Creator. In the midst of a huge universe, your answer is, it's an accident. Thats not likely and is statistically impossible.
Do you even know why you have love within you? Why do you care for your friend? If you care for your friend, can you believe that the Lord cares also?
He will never violate your right to disbelieve. He doesn't force Himself on people. He says, whosoever asks, whoever calls on Me... Jesus always walked away from the crowds, those that chose, followed. He healed all, even unbelievers and even the soldier there to arrest Him... so I don't know the condition of your friend and IDK why the Lord answers some prayers and not others. I just know He has answered many of mine and in particular for healing of friends and family. So I will pray for your friend, but it helps me if you give me a name.
God bless, andrea
 
Upvote 0

dcalling

Senior Member
Jan 31, 2014
3,190
325
✟115,271.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I get what you're asking. I've wondered about the same thing myself quite a bit, and I'm still not sure that I know the answer, but I'm going to tell you what I think anyway - lucky you! :)

Jesus had a way of asking people if they wanted to be healed:



that always seemed a little funny to me; as if why bother even asking - Yeah, he wants to be healed! What do you think? It felt like a silly formality and I would even feel a little resentful - like I was wasting my time by having to read it. As a Christian, I believe that everything that is in the bible, is in the bible for a reason, but for the life of me I couldn't figure out why this was necessary. It took me a long time to realize that maybe this man did not want to be healed. Thirty-eight years; that's a long time. A long time to be relying on charity. A long time to not have to have a job, a skill, responsibility or expectations placed on you. A long time to learn that your affliction is actually your greatest assert. Should Jesus decide to heal that man, in an instant his life would be changed. Everything he knew, the means of his survival and everything he thought about himself that very moment would be gone. Surly Jesus knew this man's heart, but did this man know his own?

Bo, check out your Facebook, I can promise you that you'll find friends on there who don't want to be healed. People who, aware of it or not, are simply not happy unless they have something to fuss about. Some people just don't know to relate to the world without a sob story.

Now I certainly don't mean to imply that your friend does not wish to recover, but one thing I've noticed about prayer is that through the act of forcing myself to bring my requests to him, I kind of have to strip away all the bologna that I can employ in speaking to others or in my own head about what and why I want/need/desire something. Because he already knows, I have to be honest with him and therefore honest with myself. I do not understand the mind of God, so I cannot say with certainty that he has not resolved, for whatever reason, to heal a person if prayers are said on their behalf. I don't know. I do know that prayers of petition require faith



and as Christians the act of relying on faith is beneficial to us. Maybe that's why he want's us to do so. We pray, as an act of obedience, because we are instructed to, but I think the benefit is far more ours than his.

Anyway, that's what I think.

Edited to say: I'm really sorry about your friend Bo, and for what it's worth; I'll be praying for him as well - and you.

I was trying to say something else and was blown away by this answer, thank you Abandoned Barns, that is a great answer.

Also I have read some near death experiences, and some people definitely don't want to come back :)
 
Upvote 0

Hikarifuru

Shine Bravely
Nov 11, 2013
3,379
269
✟28,053.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Abandoned Barns

My friend is a pastor from when i use to go to church and he was my bible college teacher, one of the few believers that i respected and cherished so much that my stopping believing didnt change it.

I really hope hes ok or gets ok.

Thanks for sharing your pov with me.
 
Upvote 0

Hikarifuru

Shine Bravely
Nov 11, 2013
3,379
269
✟28,053.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Andrea

Im an atheist, i just dont believe in god. I dont have the power to make reality suite me. I see nothing and yes its sad sometimes but courage and love compell me to face it even if it destroys me and try to take care of people while i can. The rabbit cant object to the bear as its eaten alive. I cant make my life permanent or my loved ones permanent but i do my best while i can because i believe its right. I see and need no god to care for people.
 
Upvote 0

Abandoned Barns

Powered by Grace
May 12, 2014
127
24
57
South Carolina
✟22,867.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
My friend is recovering and calling it a miracle. Im just glad hes ok :)

Well that's good news. I'm so glad for you and your friend. If anything good comes from something like this is that it works to show us how much others mean to us. I think sometimes that it takes reminders like these to keep us aware that we only ever have a limited amount of time with anyone that we love. That every minute is precious. I'm so glad that you and your friend will have more to share.
 
Upvote 0

Hospes

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2005
1,245
117
Arizona
Visit site
✟71,387.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
DeanW,

You are right in thinking if God really is who we claim he is, his will will be accomplished. It also means he knows everything; we do not bring anything to his attention as if he needs reminding. Given this, I believe he has us pray not for his benefit, but for our own.

Your friend is getting better and you feel joy, as you should. The believers that prayed for your friend feel joy and gratitude, with the object of their gratitude being their God. Seems they may have the edge on you regarding pleasure-in-life in this instance.

BTW, great question.
 
Upvote 0

Hikarifuru

Shine Bravely
Nov 11, 2013
3,379
269
✟28,053.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Well they live in fear of their master hurting their friends and they invite a self hate that sometimes hurt them and they have crosses to bear. I think my life is def more full of joy. Im free to enjoy, they are actually told there are things they shouldnt enjoy.

You didnt really answer my question, my question was why must you pray if the occasion of not getting what you asked for means it wasnt his will?
 
Upvote 0

Hikarifuru

Shine Bravely
Nov 11, 2013
3,379
269
✟28,053.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Well that's good news. I'm so glad for you and your friend. If anything good comes from something like this is that it works to show us how much others mean to us. I think sometimes that it takes reminders like these to keep us aware that we only ever have a limited amount of time with anyone that we love. That every minute is precious. I'm so glad that you and your friend will have more to share.

Absolutely :) not having an afterlife to look forward to or rely on helps me cherish them more. I think how small and temporary we are gives us more reason for compassion and kindness, one day he will pass and he will lost to me forever. When my grandfather died i was so bereaved, i wasnt sure how to manage. I just felt this pain, knowing i will never have him again is very sad but it helps me do more and do better while im here.
 
Upvote 0

TheyCallMeDavid

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2013
3,301
99
71
Florida
✟4,108.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I have a friend who had a heart attack so now there are hundreds of Christians praying for their God to help him. they believe that they need to pray and ask there god to intervene and that somehow their prayers make a difference on whether or not their god can or will intervene.

I suppose that if my friend does not recover that they will conclude that it was not the will of God if that is the conclusion and the will of God was the final determination does that not undermine the need of individuals to pray?


God is the ultimate Healer and even if he chooses to take a Lover of Himself home for eternity, he then provides the ultimate healing because there is then no more pain or dying to be experienced again. Its only very very very sad when its the God-rejector that dies because he has nothing but condemnation and judgement to look forward to for all of eternity.

The choice is ours ; which do you think is wisest to do BEFORE we get to the place of needing a life-threatening surgery or unforeseen fatal accident as in a typical car crash ?

Is it safe for you to die right now ? It is for myself and many others. We are just passing thru this brief life called human-existence .
 
Upvote 0