WHY PAUL WROTE HEBREWS AND WHY ?

[oikonomia]

 

[keepitsimple144]

So then if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away; behold, they have become new. (2 Cor. 5:17)

In a word, as I said before, the new covenant is Jesus Christ Himself.
Certainly to be put by God into Christ is to become a partaker in the new covenant.

I already explained that once before. It doesn't say it was not given to the Greeks. In fact Jesus said that because Israel did not produce the fruits God desired that the kingdom (at least for a time) would be taken from them and given to another nation which would produce the desired fruits unto God. Therefore I say to you that the kingdom of God shall be taken from you and shall be given to a nation producing its fruit. (Matt. 21:43)

And examining Ephesians chapter 3 how can you miss this about "Paul's message."
That by revelation the mystery was made known to me, as I have written previously in brief,
By which, in reading it, you can perceive my understanding in the mystery of Christ,
Which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in spirit, That in Christ Jesus the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the Body and fellow partakers of the promise through the gospel, (Eph. 3:3-6)

Can you imagine how it sounded to the rejecting Israel that Paul was preaching
that the Christ, the Messiah, was IN the Gentile believers as their hope of glory?
To whom God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory, (Col. 1:27)

Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, 1 Cor 1:6

The new covenant is Christ Himself indwelling man with all of His unsearchable riches that everyone who
receives Him would become "full grown in Christ."
Christ in you, the hope of glory, Whom we announce, admonishing every man and teaching every man in all wisdom that we may present every man full-grown in Christ;
For which also I labor, struggling according to His operation which operates in me in power. (Col. 1:27b-29)

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you? 2 Cor 13:5

 

[oikonomia]

Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, 1 Cor 1:6

Very helpful this is. And also 1 Cor. 6:17.
But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit.

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you? 2 Cor 13:5

Yes indeed.
It is wonderful and amazing this new covenant.

Christ is indwelling the regenerted believers as the law of the Spirit of divine life.
Or we may simply say the law of life.

For the law of the Spirit of life has freed me in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and of death. (Rom. 8:2)

This section in Hebrews chapter 8 highlights the contrast between the first covenant and the new covenant.

For if that first covenant had been faultless, no place would have been sought for a second.

For finding fault with them He says, “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, and I will consummate a new covenant upon the house of Israel and upon the house of Judah,

Not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.

For this is the covenant which I will covenant with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will impart My laws into their mind, and on their hearts I will inscribe them; and I will be God to them, and they will be a people to Me.

This means the Triune God will dispense Christ into our inner being, inscribing this living Person as the life giving Spirit into our being.

And they shall by no means each teach his fellow citizen and each his brother, saying, Know the Lord; for all will know Me from the little one to the great one among them.

For I will be propitious to their unrighteousnesses, and their sins I shall by no means remember anymore.”

In saying, A new covenant, He has made the first old. But that which is becoming old and growing decrepit is near to disappearing. (Heb. 8:7-13)

 

[Dan Perez]

Very helpful this is. And also 1 Cor. 6:17.
But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit.

Yes indeed.
It is wonderful and amazing this new covenant.

Christ is indwelling the regenerted believers as the law of the Spirit of divine life.
Or we may simply say the law of life.

For the law of the Spirit of life has freed me in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and of death. (Rom. 8:2)

This section in Hebrews chapter 8 highlights the contrast between the first covenant and the new covenant.

For if that first covenant had been faultless, no place would have been sought for a second.

For finding fault with them He says, “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, and I will consummate a new covenant upon the house of Israel and upon the house of Judah,

Not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.

For this is the covenant which I will covenant with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will impart My laws into their mind, and on their hearts I will inscribe them; and I will be God to them, and they will be a people to Me.

This means the Triune God will dispense Christ into our inner being, inscribing this living Person as the life giving Spirit into our being.

And they shall by no means each teach his fellow citizen and each his brother, saying, Know the Lord; for all will know Me from the little one to the great one among them.

For I will be propitious to their unrighteousnesses, and their sins I shall by no means remember anymore.”

In saying, A new covenant, He has made the first old. But that which is becoming old and growing decrepit is near to disappearing. (Heb. 8:7-13)

And I am still waiting for anyone , to explain how anyone is SAVED by the NEW COVENANT with a verse ?

Does the NEW COVENANT FOR Israel and Judah ?

But there are still two STICKS !!

And they have to become ONE STICK ?

dan p



Or is the NEW COVENANT for Gentiles

 

[oikonomia]

And I am still waiting for anyone , to explain how anyone is SAVED by the NEW COVENANT with a verse ?

Does the NEW COVENANT FOR Israel and Judah ?

But there are still two STICKS !!

And they have to become ONE STICK ?

dan p



Or is the NEW COVENANT for Gentiles

The new covenant is for who so ever believes in God's only begotten Son - mainly His
death and resurrection for eternal redemption. Isn't that the basics of the new covenant?

I said the basics, the foundational word, the beginning of the word of Christ. I didn't say an exhaustive explanation of all the unsearchable riches of Christ in this covenant.

Hebrews 6:1-3 -
Therefore leaving the word of the beginning of Christ, let us be brought on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith in God, Of the teaching of baptisms and of the laying on of hands, of the resurrection of the dead and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits.

Well, you tell me then about the two sticks becoming one stick in the hand of Ezekiel.

What do you want to say about the two joined sticks in relation to the new covenant to Israel and Judah?
I mean in somewhat brief terms since you have probably written much on the subject in other threads.

What is the jist of your insight about Ezekiel 37:15-22 ?

 

[Dan Perez]

The new covenant is for who so ever believes in God's only begotten Son - mainly His
death and resurrection for eternal redemption. Isn't that the basics of the new covenant?

I said the basics, the foundational word, the beginning of the word of Christ. I didn't say an exhaustive explanation of the unsearchable riches of Christ.

Hebrews 6:1-3 -
Therefore leaving the word of the beginning of Christ, let us be brought on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith in God, Of the teaching of baptisms and of the laying on of hands, of the resurrection of the dead and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits.

Well, you tell me then about the two sticks becoming one stick in the hand of Ezekiel.

What do you want to say about the two joined sticks in relation to the new covenant to Israel and Judah?
I mean in somewhat brief terms since you have probably written much on the subject in other threads.

What is the jist of your insight about Ezekiel 37:15-22 ?

I say NOT as you are in the wrong Chapter , and begins in Eze 36 with Israel being SPRINKLED with clean WATER .

Can you read that chapter before replying , PLEASE ?

dan p

 

[oikonomia]

I say NOT as you are in the wrong Chapter , and begins in Eze 36 with Israel being SPRINKLED with clean WATER .

Can you read that chapter before replying , PLEASE ?

dan p

Yes. I will do that.
No need to implore me ever to read the word of God.

 

[oikonomia]

Okay. I have read those two great chapters of Ezekiel 36 and 37 with their tremendous promises.
And what is it you wish to bring to my attention about these promises which I believe?

 

[keepitsimple144]

Very helpful this is. And also 1 Cor. 6:17.
But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit.
Yes indeed.
It is wonderful and amazing this new covenant.
Christ is indwelling the regenerted believers as the law of the Spirit of divine life.

Very refreshing.
And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities. Acts 3:25-26

Search me, God, and know my heart;
test me see if there is any offensive way in me,
and lead me in the way everlasting. Psalm 139:23-24

 

[Dan Perez]

Very refreshing.
And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities. Acts 3:25-26

Search me, God, and know my heart;
test me see if there is any offensive way in me,
and lead me in the way everlasting. Psalm 139:23-24

I see you are a strong believer in the NEW COVENANT , and have yet not seen one that know how anyone is saved and then goes to heaven and would like to see a verse on salvation if you can ? please ?

dan p

 

[oikonomia]

I see you are a strong believer in the NEW COVENANT , and have yet not seen one that know how anyone is saved and then goes to heaven and would like to see a verse on salvation if you can ? please ?

dan p

You think the consummation of the new covenant is for people to go to heaven?
I thought you saw deeper into the New Testament than that.

The new covenant is about going into God Himself and He coming into man for a united, incorporated mingling of
divinity with humanity.

In Ezekiel 36 or 37 do you see anything about going to heaven?
You implied that what we really need to know about this new covenant is there in Ezekiel 36,37.

By the way, as you advised I did read and enjoyed Ezekiel 36 as a needed intro to chapter 37.

 

[keepitsimple144]

I see you are a strong believer in the NEW COVENANT , and have yet not seen one that know how anyone is saved and then goes to heaven and would like to see a verse on salvation if you can ? please ?

So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation... Heb 9:28

For in this hope we were saved. But hopes for what they already have? Rom 8:24

Whoever has the Son has life; 1 John 5:12

 

[Dan Perez]

You think the consummation of the new covenant is for people to go to heaven?
I thought you saw deeper into the New Testament than that.

The new covenant is about going into God Himself and He coming into man for a united, incorporated mingling of
divinity with humanity.

In Ezekiel 36 or 37 do you see anything about going to heaven?
You implied that what we really need to know about this new covenant is there in Ezekiel 36,37.

By the way, as you advised I did read and enjoyed Ezekiel 36 as a needed intro to chapter 37.

And if the people in the NEW COVENANT do not go to heaven , then do you have a verse that says where they go then?

#1 At death , the BODY goes to a GRAVE ,

#2 Where does the SPIRIT of man go at Death ?

# 3 Then where does the SOUL of man go at DEATH ??

Your thoughts ??

dan p

 

[oikonomia]

And if the people in the NEW COVENANT do not go to heaven , then do you have a verse that says where go then?

I do not say that no saved humans ever go to heaven. I mean going to heaven is not the goal of God's full salvation.
Suppose you and I go to heaven and still have souls that have not been conformed to the image of His Son?
Taking us to heaven would be an incomplete salvation.

All God's operation including His foreknowledge, predestination, calling, justifying, and glorifying are to
bring the saved into conformity to the image of the Firstborn Son of God.

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers;

And those whom He predestinated, these He also called; and those whom He called, these He also justified; and those whom He justified, these He also glorified. (Romans 8:28-30)

We are "going" into conformity to the image of Jesus Christ that He might have many brothers.
My further comments will answer your points referring back in some way to Romans 8:28-30.

#1 At death , the BODY goes to a GRAVE ,

But Christ is in resurrection and in glory expressing God and man mingled for eternity.
So to be conformed to the image of the Firstborn Son we too must be resurrected and receive an immortal glorified body.
But the spirit must be regenerated and the soul transformed so that the body may receive transfiguration in resurrection.

To be "conformed to the image of His Son" would not mean our bodies remain the dust that it turns into upon physical death.

Notice First Thessalonians shows complete sanctification includes all three parts of man's being - spirit and soul and body.

And the God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly, and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Faithful is He who calls you, who also will do it. (1 Thes. 5:23,24)

He WILL do it!
And the grave is defeated - deprived of any victory.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

And when this corruptible will put on incorruption and this mortal will put on immortality, then the word which is written will come to pass, “Death has been swallowed up unto victory.”

Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting? (1 Cor. 15:53-55)

#2 Where does the SPIRIT of man go at Death ?

The above verses should show you that death is not the end.
Resurrection, glorification, transfiguration comes after death.

So it really doesn't matter what happens at death because that is not our final station.

By the way, Solomon did not say specifically that the human spirit goes back to God.
Rather he posed the problem in the form of a question - "Who knows?" is the tone of Ecclesiaties 3:21.

English Standard Version
Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth? (Ecc. 3:21)

In other words this very wise man has a feeling that man is closer to God than animals. But really all we know experientially
is that we both die, we and all the animals. By experience "who knows. . . ?" were our spirit goes upon death? That is the tone
of this passage used so much to prove what it really doesn't present an answer to.

Then some might protest that upon death the spirit goes back to God according to Ecclesiates 12:7.
And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the breath returns to God who gave it.

But Ecclesiastes is not the final word on the destiny of saved human beings.
Mainly Ecclesiastes is the musings of wise man Solomon about things "under the sun."
That means the things we physically alive know only by subjective experience in this temporal realm of the five senses in this world.

Don't exchange the revelation of the New Testament to use Ecclesiastes as the final word on the purpose of God.

# 3 Then where does the SOUL of man go at DEATH ??

Once again, death is not the final station of those predestinated, called, justified, glorified according to God's eternal purpose.
Do not over appreciate death and what happens at death. For death is the last enemy to be totally vanquished by Christ.

Death, the last enemy, is being abolished. (1 Cor. 15:26)

But now has been manifested through the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who nullified death and brought life and incorruption to light through the gospel, (1 Tim. 1:10)

Death does not have the last say to the called of God to the New Jerusalem. Death and Hades go into God's eternal trash can the lake of fire.

And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:14)

The sons of God become the tabernacle of God, the New Jerusalem.
That is the very living corporate habitation [or dwelling place] of God in spirit. (Eph. 2:21,22)

And I heard a loud voice out of the throne, saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will tabernacle with them, and they will be His peoples, and God Himself will be with them and be their God.

And He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death will be no more, nor will there be sorrow or crying or pain anymore; for the former things have passed away. (Rev. 21:3,4)

 

[HIM]

And I am still waiting for anyone , to explain how anyone is SAVED by the NEW COVENANT with a verse ?

He puts His Law in our hearts and minds through Christ through His Spirit rather than we obeying the Law through the Bible by our own spirit.


Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

 

[keepitsimple144]

At death , the BODY goes to a GRAVE ,

For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens... if indeed, having been clothed, 2 Cor 5:1-3

Where does the SPIRIT of man go at Death ?

Absent from the body, present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:7-9

“Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man [To Him was given authority, Dan 7:13-14] standing at the right hand of God!”... Lord Jesus receive my spirit. Acts 7:56,59
You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. John 17:2-3

Then where does the SOUL of man go at DEATH ??
Your thoughts ??

ALWAYS I will lift up my soul to You, Eternal One...
CERTAINLY none of the people who rely on You will be shamed, [Psalm 125:1]
[ “Look, I have laid a stone in Zion, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation; the one who believes [trusts in Christ] will be unshakable." Isaiah 28:16 ] [So we should be thankful because we have a kingdom that cannot be shaken. Heb 12:28]
but those who are unfaithful, who intentionally deceive, they are the ones who will be disgraced. Psalm 25:1,3 The Voice

 

[Dan Perez]

For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens... if indeed, having been clothed, 2 Cor 5:1-3

Absent from the body, present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:7-9

“Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man [To Him was given authority, Dan 7:13-14] standing at the right hand of God!”... Lord Jesus receive my spirit. Acts 7:56,59
You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. John 17:2-3

ALWAYS I will lift up my soul to You, Eternal One...
CERTAINLY none of the people who rely on You will be shamed, [Psalm 125:1]
[ “Look, I have laid a stone in Zion, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation; the one who believes [trusts in Christ] will be unshakable." Isaiah 28:16 ] [So we should be thankful because we have a kingdom that cannot be shaken. Heb 12:28]
but those who are unfaithful, who intentionally deceive, they are the ones who will be disgraced. Psalm 25:1,3 The Voice

And do believe what Paul has written in 2 Cor 5:8 Absent from the BODY , present with the Lord .

And is John 3:13 reads , And no man hath ASCENDED up to Heaven , but He that came DOWN from Heaven the Son of Man which is in Heaven .

The main reason we at death are NOT in Heaven is because all Grace believers HAVE to be RESURRECTED FIRST !

So when are we BEFORE his COMING // PAROUSIA ?


Your thoughts , as to where we are after DEATH ?

dan p

 

[Grafted In]

So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation... Heb 9:28

Perhaps Paul is making reference to the fact that God blinded the eyes and hardened the hearts of His chosen people and sent His apostles to the Gentiles.
Then after the time of the gentiles is full, all of Israel will be saved.

I'm not well studied on such things. That just came to mind when I read the above quote.

 

[Dan Perez]

He puts His Law in our hearts and minds through Christ through His Spirit rather than we obeying the Law through the Bible by our own spirit.


Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

And you do have a good verse their !!

And here is another that ENHANCES Jer 31:33 !!

It is in Eze 36 - 25 , where Christ BAPTIZES // SPRINKLES clean WATER // HUDOR { LOOKS like water baptism to me } and given a a NEW HEART , in verse 26 a NEW HEART and take out the STONY HEART and in verse 27 Christ will in you and cause you

to walk in my statures and ye shall keep my judgments and in verse 28 ye shall dwell in the land I gave you and read to end of chapter , verse 38 .

This is what is called the NEW COVENANT ,

dan p

 

[keepitsimple144]

And is John 3:13 reads , And no man hath ASCENDED up to Heaven , but He that came DOWN from Heaven the Son of Man which is in Heaven .

Therefore He says: “When He ascended on high, He gave gifts to men.” Eph 4:8

The main reason we at death are NOT in Heaven is because all Grace believers HAVE to be RESURRECTED FIRST !

Redemption in Christ
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, Eph 1:3

So when are we BEFORE his COMING // PAROUSIA ?

As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, Col 2:6

Your thoughts , as to where we are after DEATH ?

If anyone is not reconciled in Christ, that person is separated from God—lost forever!