Why One God?

[Sojourner<><]

I like the idea that there may be something bigger than the Gods, but i also like the idea that Gods are made by believing in them, and the idea that they moved in from somewhere after humanity was born.

But wouldn't that make them imaginary gods since they don't exist if nobody believes in them? I prefer to put my faith in something more real than that: something that was around before we were and will be there after we're gone. That's why I believe in the one true God.. because He exists apart from myself and from all other things that I can think of. If He existed only because I thought him up, I wouldn't even bother.

 

[InnocentOdion]

What? no. Of course I know who I believe in.

*blinks* Um.. okay. The way you were talking, with all the 'maybe', 'or maybe'.. seemed like you weren't too sure yourself. As long as you do, because I have no clue.

How, specificaly, did you get that idea? And If you're agnostic, why do you have St Marys as your religion icon?

I said I'm agnostic to if there are other gods or not. I don't know if there are other gods, but I don't really care since I worship the One True Creator. I'm very much a baptised, confirmed Christian and I believe very much. St Mary's is my church.

I like the idea that there may be something bigger than the Gods, but i also like the idea that Gods are made by believing in them, and the idea that they moved in from somewhere after humanity was born.

Sounds like a game I play - Black and White. Fun game, but I don't take this theologically seriously.

 

[RedBalfour]

I do the 'maybe' thing a lot. I get caught up in hypotheticals that I dont believe, but think may be a possibility.

I dont set much thological store by B&W either, but its definately fun

I didn't seriously mean a being poped into creation beause I made it up, i was being hypothetical, its one explanation for the existence in God/s.

I prefer to put my faith in something more real than that

Prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that God is real and Jesus woke from the dead and is therefor divine.
I can prove to you that The Doctor did it ten times over with my video evidence, but you dont have anything.

 

[12ogue]

Seriously, to some people the idea of more than one God is just ludicrous, and they have to...well, here's a conversation I had with my mother a year or so ago.
"No, I dont believe in the Christian God. I'm Pagan, therefore, I believe in multiple Gods"
(After all the 'No you dont, you're christian' stuff) "So...these other 'Gods', what do they do"
"Well, basicaly some of them work with different types of nature or even different actions. Like hunting, or i dont know, carpentry"
"So they're like...patron Saints?"
"No"

And a similar reference to saints and angels came up when i had this similar chat with the school/diasis (i know i've spelt that wrong) priest. He couldn't understand that beings of power could be anywhere near together without breaking into holy war every day. so he condensed it to the level of angels, and i didn't have time to argue, because i had Business studies to worry about.

So, a few questions.
1. Why do many chrisitans find the idea of multiple Gods so hard to comprehend?
2. Why do you only believe in one God?
and 3. Who is this (Christian) God person anyway?

Redbalfour, it isn't the certain idea of how many gods we want. It was a fact written in the Bible, and that's how we chose to believe it. And that's also why it makes it hard to believe in multiple gods, because we only believed in one. And in the Ten Commandments, God specifically points out that we should not believe in any other gods except him.

 

[InnocentOdion]

I do the 'maybe' thing a lot. I get caught up in hypotheticals that I dont believe, but think may be a possibility.

I see. Maybe you should do a hypothetical 'what if I'm wrong and the Christians are right?'.

I dont set much thological store by B&W either, but its definately fun

Well, yes. But they took out all of the cool creatures in the second one. Oh well!

I didn't seriously mean a being poped into creation beause I made it up, i was being hypothetical, its one explanation for the existence in God/s.

Now, it still sounds daft. I'm not one for thoughtforms, although one of my friends is/was.

It's much, much easier to understand if there has always been a single, supreme deity, outside of time and space, without gender or form. Why would there need to be more than one? Why wouldn't they fight or quarrel? What if the goddess of water falls out with the goddess of the moon?

Prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that God is real and Jesus woke from the dead and is therefor divine.

I don't want, nor need to. It's something I'd rather you look for and find out on your own. I can only be here to help you. My style of evangelism isn't a Bible in one hand and a throat in the other.

However, why don't YOU prove to me that the god and goddess and the other beings you believe in are real. There is much less evidence that the god and goddess exist, let alone the 'god of hunting', 'goddess of fertility', 'goddess of baked cakes', 'god of paintballing on a Wednesday evening between the hours of five and eight PM except on the last Wednesday of the month', etc than the Christian God.

Remember: you're talking to an ex-Pagan.

It makes a lot more sense for one God, or at least one supreme God, than it does for a bunch of little gods who occupy various fields.

I can prove to you that The Doctor did it ten times over with my video evidence, but you dont have anything.

...what? Seriously, that doesn't make sense. Explain.

Out of curiosity, name the deities you believe in and what they do.

 

[plmarquette]

(Sorry, i didn't know this was jewish OT)
What exactly was Baal God of? and does he count as pagan if he doens't have any Gods around him?

I dont think the ammount of priests the god brought has much to do with anything, and there's always the chance someone made the passage up. i do, in certain circumstances believe that people can proform an act of magic or divine power, but that guy should have been burned at the stake right away. Thou shalt not tolerate a witch.

baal , metastopholes, satan, lucifer, lord of flies, prince of the air , lord of confusion , father of lies...alias's

....let's see, young lady... god's .....
Aztec's... human sacrifice ... kind of extreme..one of the poorest regions in the world .. along with buddha, hindu, africa, old soviet block ... what is the fruit of the old god's ... poverty, sickness, disease, death , devistation

what about the sect who drank the koolaide to go to the comet .... or those who worship their ancestors, rulers, or reproductive organs ... how are they better off than christian's ?

where is the empire of greece, rome, macidonia, persia, carthage, soviet union , the mongols , the empire of japan ... all seem to fail and return to dust , why is that?

we worship what works , what edifys, what endures, what is reat to us , what speaks to us in song, word, visions, and his book ... we believe , for there is no alternative, nothing else out there..

 

[RedBalfour]

Sorry for the LOOOOONG POST. I've got a lot to reply to.

not believe in any other gods except him.

Actually it says no Gods 'Before me' which means he accepts other Gods, but says he's the only one you need to bother with.

I see. Maybe you should do a hypothetical 'what if I'm wrong and the Christians are right?'.

Have you seen Lost? This reminds me of the scene where Jack asks the Irish Guy if he ever considered the hatch button was ws fake.
'Every damn day, brother.' but I consider it more than christians consider they're wrong. I'm prepared to accept all Gods are real, but to observe the right to choose which ones I worship. And even if you are right, I'm still probably going to heaven because I'm nice.

What if the goddess of water falls out with the goddess of the moon?

Notice how there's no water on the moon? lol!
Thats why you have Kings of the Gods. Odin or Zeus would keep thier pantheons in line with good leadership, or bribes. There have been wars between Gods before, but they make friends again like you and your friends.
I find it much harder to believe in a mystical unexplained entity with no gender that always existed and always will, than a group of people who moved into a planet after a Creator had made it. It seems more human, and I'm human, so I'd prefer to think whatever guides me in life at least knows something about what its doing.

My style of evangelism isn't a Bible in one hand and a throat in the other.

Welcome relief. though I do enjoy talking to those types. One of them was actually quite nice, but really deaf, so i couldn't really talk back...

(Can't be bothered to find the specific quote bit)
I can't prove that they're real. Partly because people dont believe in wikipedia, and I haven't got a holy book to quote from because as far as i know, they were all burned as heretical and all thats left now is written by people who spell magic with a 'k'.
I find it more human, and as you know I'm all for Gods being humanish, that the Gods to a job or a few jobs that need to be done to upkeep or install certain systems in the earth. Hunt Gods may just watch the hunting, and decide weather the animal lives or dies by moving teh arrow/bullet a little to the left, or tripping the hunter up with a well placed branch. Weather Gods probably just have to flip proverbial switches on the environment and make sure it doesn't break down. We're making it fairly hard with GW, i bet.

Quote:
I can prove to you that The Doctor did it ten times over with my video evidence, but you dont have anything.
...what? Seriously, that doesn't make sense. Explain.

Geek thing. Theres a comic of an evalgelist and a doctor who fan on the internet. They debate about evidence and the fan twists his words like;
'But Jesus Christ is your Lord and Saviour!'
'No, the Doctor saved us from the Daleks, the Cybermen and the Master. Jesus only died'
'But he came back from the dead!'
'When he does it nine more times, then he can talk to me'

I believe in every God. Even yours. The ones I worship;
Freya - Norse Goddess of many things, including fertility and war.
Thor - A weather God who, like I think most of the Norse Edda have, gone into a side-business in music, due to the increased popularity of them in metal.
Odin - God Cheif of the Norse Edda. God of 'magic' and wisdom.
Gaia - Nonspecific female deity of creation. I dont pray to her, she's probably far too busy.

And finally I get to you, plmarquette.

Do you realise how historicaly blind you are? Or how frikkin' offensive you're being? No matter, I deal with your type a lot.

Fruit of the Old Gods and you mention Greeks...oh lets see...how about this DEMOCRACY that they invented? Science? Culture? Education?
You've got blood on your hands too, Chrisitans. And I'm not Aztec. They may have sacrificed people, but at least cutting out the heart when drugged is more humane that setting people on fire, tied up and screaming, or putting Muslims to the sword for the gain of gold!
Sure, I'm more Viking than Aztec, so now you say about Raiding and pillaging? I'll point back to the crusades and say 'We never pretended to love our neighbour'.

You know, it's half 2 am, and I'm spoiling for a fight with you. If I had it, I'd organise christians vs pagans Unrea Tornament or something, just to replace me axing your face off, savage.

 

[InnocentOdion]

Actually it says no Gods 'Before me' which means he accepts other Gods, but says he's the only one you need to bother with.

The ONLY one any of us need to bother with, hon.

Have you seen Lost?

Lost sucks. I can't watch it any more because nothing's happening. What a waste.

This reminds me of the scene where Jack asks the Irish Guy if he ever considered the hatch button was ws fake.
'Every damn day, brother.' but I consider it more than christians consider they're wrong. I'm prepared to accept all Gods are real, but to observe the right to choose which ones I worship.

If I thought I was wrong, I wouldn't be Christian.

And even if you are right, I'm still probably going to heaven because I'm nice.

Haha. That's what you think. Niceness doesn't get you to heaven.

Geek thing.

Geeeeeeek! =)

Theres a comic of an evalgelist and a doctor who fan on the internet. They debate about evidence and the fan twists his words like;
'But Jesus Christ is your Lord and Saviour!'
'No, the Doctor saved us from the Daleks, the Cybermen and the Master. Jesus only died'
'But he came back from the dead!'
'When he does it nine more times, then he can talk to me'

Not only is it dumb, but it's insulting. I never knew 'Geek' meant 'insulting jerk'.

I believe in every God. Even yours.

If you believe in my God, you would only follow Him.

The ones I worship;
Freya - Norse Goddess of many things, including fertility and war.

Good combination?

Thor - A weather God who, like I think most of the Norse Edda have, gone into a side-business in music, due to the increased popularity of them in metal.

Another good combination. Where is the proof Thor is the god of metal music..?

Odin - God Cheif of the Norse Edda. God of 'magic' and wisdom.

You mean, magic, or magick? If he's the god of magic, that's lame. Magic is smoke and mirrors.

Gaia - Nonspecific female deity of creation. I dont pray to her, she's probably far too busy.

You mean, Gaia = God's creation?

just to replace me axing your face off, savage.

Now, what happened to you being "nice"? Looks like you aren't going to heaven for being nice, when you're talking about axing someone's face off. Sheesh.

By the way, don't you preach about the burning times around me, or I will just laugh in your face and lose any respect for you, I will see you as a fluffy bunny.

For the record: I lost many of my friends for becoming Christian because they were Wiccan,and they asked me to apologise for witchburnings (whereas witches were drowned).

 

[RedBalfour]

The ONLY one any of us need to bother with, hon. [\quote]
Hey, if God has a plan for al of us, then he plannced for me to be non-christian. Which means I need to be Pagan to do something great, or he doesn't want my soul. Dont exactly know why I'm saying this, I just get carried away on random rambles.

If I thought I was wrong, I wouldn't be Christian.

And if I thought I was always right, I wouldn't be humble XD

Haha. That's what you think. Niceness doesn't get you to heaven.

Yeah, I need to be celebate, dediate my life to God, yaddah, yaddah and then yaddah. Not exactly that, but those lines.
I can't remember the faith, but it says that you have two angels watching you, one wrting down bad things and teh other good things. the notebooks are weighted when you die, and the heaviest notebook decides the afterlife. I think that if I've done more good in my lfe than anyone alive ever and I happen to worship Norse Gods, then God would kind of say 'It doesn't matter, come on in' or something like that, rather than send someone considered to be a saint to hell. I'm not saying I'm going to be the best person alive, but its an example.
And my Anglican friend says that you dont have to be Christian to go to heaven, you just have to do more good than harm.

If you believe in my God, you would only follow Him.

I did believe in him, but it was because I believed in him and went to his church and his school that I didn't even know there was such thing as a Muslim or a Taoist until i was in secondary school. I believe he exists, but I think he's too stubborn to hang around with the other Gods, who aren't nearly as unfriendly and dictator-like.

Where is the proof Thor is the god of metal music..?

There isn't any. Norse themes have grown more popular in recent years, which hints he's trying his hand as a muse of sorts. It's mainly an in-joke with metalheads though, because really, it would be the coolest thing if he was

magick?

Are you one of those 15 year olds who thinks its cool to be different by using a 'k' in the word 'magic'? Magic and magick are the same thing, much as anyone would like to say otherwise. it's a spelling difference made up by idiot children.

You mean, Gaia = God's creation?

The Pantheon she belongs to predates Christ. So does the Horned God, who looks an awful lot like christian Satan. You've perverted history in that sense, so what's a little dictionary tampering?

Now, what happened to you being "nice"? Looks like you aren't going to heaven for being nice, when you're talking about axing someone's face off. Sheesh

It'd be an act of Holy War, which is covered as acceptable by bible standards. You kill me, thats fine, I kill you, I'm going to hell for it. Alternatively, I go to Valhalla if we die in a fair fight, either way it sounds like fun. I said I was nice, but I'm not patient when it comes to smiling evangelists.

For the record: I lost many of my friends for becoming Christian because they were Wiccan,and they asked me to apologise for witchburnings (whereas witches were drowned).

So, what you're saying is, that because they were drowned, that's okay? Fantastic. I was taught in school that it was both, but either way around - you burned the good with the bad, you killed innocent people in an effort to establish your faith as superior. Given the chance, you'd probably do it again if we got too popular.

 

[InnocentOdion]

Dont exactly know why I'm saying this, I just get carried away on random rambles.

I noticed.

And if I thought I was always right, I wouldn't be humble XD

You mean, you're being humble?

Yeah, I need to be celebate, dediate my life to God, yaddah, yaddah and then yaddah. Not exactly that, but those lines.

Erm. Not quite.

I can't remember the faith, but it says that you have two angels watching you, one wrting down bad things and teh other good things. the notebooks are weighted when you die, and the heaviest notebook decides the afterlife.

Sounds like a mix between Christianity and Egyptian religion.

I think that if I've done more good in my lfe than anyone alive ever and I happen to worship Norse Gods, then God would kind of say 'It doesn't matter, come on in' or something like that

Haha. I don't.

I'm not saying I'm going to be the best person alive

You don't have to tell me that!

And my Anglican friend says that you dont have to be Christian to go to heaven, you just have to do more good than harm.

Then tell him/her he should read his/her Bible.

I did believe in him, but it was because I believed in him and went to his church and his school that I didn't even know there was such thing as a Muslim or a Taoist until i was in secondary school. I believe he exists, but I think he's too stubborn to hang around with the other Gods, who aren't nearly as unfriendly and dictator-like.

Maybe they go drinking together on Saturdays. God is far too important for drinking with lesser deities.

There isn't any. Norse themes have grown more popular in recent years,

Oh, okay, so it's made up. No worries!

Are you one of those 15 year olds who thinks its cool to be different by using a 'k' in the word 'magic'?

Nope.

Magic and magick are the same thing, much as anyone would like to say otherwise. it's a spelling difference made up by idiot children.

Nope. People use magic and magick to distinguish various things: magic is smoke and mirrors. Not proper stuff. Deck of cards, coin behind the ear, and finally subjective magic: ones which rely on one's belief in them to manifest. Magick is the real good stuff. PM me sometime and we could discuss it.

The Pantheon she belongs to predates Christ. So does the Horned God

Sure. Okay, if that's what you believe.

who looks an awful lot like christian Satan. You've perverted history in that sense

Actually, the Jews used to offer a scapegoat to Azazel (I'm not sure of his spelling), and it says in Revelation God will line the sheep on one side and the goats on the other, and the goats are a reference to sinners, so it's easy to make that connection. I just think the Horned God is lame anyway. Even many of his own believers ignore him most of the time. Others totally focus on the goddess and remove him from existence.

It'd be an act of Holy War, which is covered as acceptable by bible standards. You kill me, thats fine, I kill you, I'm going to hell for it.

Bible says not to murder. I think you're mistaking it for the Koran. Holy war isn't acceptable, unless it's protecting. We're not allowed to go around killing everyone for worshipping rocks and deities which half of the people that call themselves members of that religion ignore who look interestingly like demons of old.

Alternatively, I go to Valhalla if we die in a fair fight, either way it sounds like fun.

Valhalla sucks. Why would you want to go there? Spending your life fighting with others. That's stupid. Mind you, the whole Norse mythology thing is stupid. It's no wonder it died out--although you will probably something akin to "gasp it was the Kreeshtians hudidit" or something. If it was so good, and we really did try to extinguish it, they would've thought back and booted them out.

I said I was nice, but I'm not patient when it comes to smiling evangelists.

Or, you're simply not nice. Your version of nice isn't the same as mine, but the more important question is: are you nice enough to be accepted into God's home? Quote:
For the record: I lost many of my friends for becoming Christian because they were Wiccan,and they asked me to apologise for witchburnings (whereas witches were drowned).
So, what you're saying is, that because they were drowned, that's okay? Fantastic. I was taught in school that it was both, but either way around - you burned the good with the bad, you killed innocent people in an effort to establish your faith as superior. Given the chance, you'd probably do it again if we got too popular.

 

[RedBalfour]

You mean, you're being humble?

Well, I consider that I may be wrong, which I something I can't see you doing a lot of.

Haha. I don't.

Imagine Martin Luther King converted to Islam on his deathbed. Would he still go to hell?

Oh, okay, so it's made up. No worries!

Only the funniest of jokes aren't.

Nope. People use magic and magick to distinguish various things: magic is smoke and mirrors. Not proper stuff. Deck of cards, coin behind the ear, and finally subjective magic: ones which rely on one's belief in them to manifest. Magick is the real good stuff. PM me sometime and we could discuss it.

Sure. Okay, if that's what you believe.

That's my answer to the previous comment.

who look interestingly like demons of old

If that's what you believe. I was raised christian, went to (and still do) go to a Roman Catholic school, and I've never even heard what a Demon looks like, let along that they look like Odin. OUt of general interest, name me three Gods and three Demons who look alike, discounting the Horned God, because it is *fact* that he predates christianity.

Valhalla sucks. Why would you want to go there? Spending your life fighting with others

For a start, many people find fighting fun, in an adrenal 'I'm so alive' kind of way, and the few times I've experienced that, it was pretty cool. I like the mythology of the hall, the feasting, the company of heroes. Plus, it's near Freya's Hall, which is much better.

"gasp it was the Kreeshtians hudidit"

There's a document about christians and pagans building fires that a warrior had to run through, to contest for an area of land. the warrior passed through the pagan fire but died in the christian one, somehow proving your God was better. forgeting that he'd already run through one fire... and yes, you did conduct a lot of witch burnings and lycanthrop hunts - anyone who drew a symbol of non christianity was considered heathen and purgable, stopping if from growing back afer you originaly warred and took over pagan land. Irish Folk band Cruachan has a few intesting takes on this.

Or, you're simply not nice. Your version of nice isn't the same as mine, but the more important question is: are you nice enough to be accepted into God's home?

That's not the important question, but if he loves everyone, has a plan for everyone, then I was meant to do this for some reason, and he shouldn't cast those he 'loves' into Hell if they've lived moral lives, even if they're non-christian.
But I don't have to worry about that. Fólkvangr is where I'm wanting to go. You can have heaven, eternity in the prescense of your God. I'll be a new arrival in an old aferlife, if they'll have me.