Why not Apocraphy?

[ShammahBenJudah]

The more reason for u to be silent then....u critise our protestant brethen and thier basis of private intepretation...have u no heart?

I addressed a specific ought with you, please address it.

 

[DarkLord]

I addressed a specific ought with you, please address it.

So repeating a protestant doctrine is blashempous....wow u protestants always amaze me.

 

[ScottBot]

With all due respect, I was addressing a specific post mocking the work of the Holy Spirit. It was vain and unnecessary. The point could've just as easily have been expressed without disrespecting the Holy Spirit...





Errr...why stab at those who don't walk as you do...what spirit is that the fruit of?

"But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness." 2 Timothy 2:16

The spirit of truth. I'm sorry if it makes you uncomfortable.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Btw christ quoted DC

When Christ quoted the OT He would always qualify it "It is written ..." and other such things. You are merely finding similar sayings and saying that Jesus quoted it. I could similarly find similar teachings of Jesus and the Scripture in any number of ANE religions, and budhism and elsewhere. Similarity does not equal quoting. When Jesus quoted Scripture, He made sure that we knew He was quoting Scripture. Your entire post is a bunch of hopeful nonsense.

Exactly.


Jesus did quote from God's Holy Word some 50 times, but never once from any DC book.


Thank you.


Pax!


- Josiah

 

[ScottBot]

Exactly.


Jesus did quote from God's Holy Word some 50 times, but never once from any DC book.


Thank you.


Pax!


- Josiah

Jesus Christ IS God's Holy Word. Everything that came out of His mouth was authoritative. To make the presumption that it was authoritative because it was written by a prophet who was writing about Him is silly. Jesus Christ quoted the intent of many deuterocanonical books. To deny it is ignorance or arrogance.

 

[DarkLord]

Exactly.


Jesus did quote from God's Holy Word some 50 times, but never once from any DC book.


Thank you.


Pax!


- Josiah

I suppsoe He came to tell u how he did his quoting and talking etc etc.

Are u infallible in how u intepretate jesus words now? Must be one of the 600 mil Super Popes

 

[BereanTodd]

I suppsoe He came to tell u how he did his quoting and talking etc etc.

Are u infallible in how u intepretate jesus words now? Must be one of the 600 mil Super Popes

Hey look! Jesus quoted Budha! We must therefore include all of the Budhist writtings into our Scripture as well!!

Buddha: One is the way to gain, the other is the way to Nirvana, knowing this fact, students of the Buddha should not take pleasure in being honored, but, should practice detachment.
Jesus: No slave can serve two masters For a slave will either hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.

Buddha: Just as a mother would protect her only child at the risk of her own life, even so, cultivate a boundless heart towards all beings. Let your thoughts of boundless love pervade the whole world.
Jesus: This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friends.

Buddha: If you do not tend to one another then who is there to tend to you? Whoever who would tend me, he should tend the sick.
Jesus: Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these, so you have done it unto me.

Buddha: Consider others as yourself.
Jesus: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Buddha: One who acts on truth is happy, in this world and beyond.
Jesus: You will know the truth and the truth will make you free.

Buddha:Hatred do not ever cease in this world by hating, but by love; this is an eternal truth... Overcome anger by love, Overcome evil by good. overcome the miser by giving, overcome the liar by truth.
Jesus: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. From anyone who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt. Give to everyone who begs from you; and if anyone takes away your goods, do not ask for them again.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Jesus Christ IS God's Holy Word. Everything that came out of His mouth was authoritative. To make the presumption that it was authoritative because it was written by a prophet who was writing about Him is silly. Jesus Christ quoted the intent of many deuterocanonical books. To deny it is ignorance or arrogance.

1. This is what I was taught in the Catholic Church. I have no idea what you were taught (heaven knows, all kinds of things are taught in the RCC): "The Bible is the Word of God and no greater assurance of credence can be given." You may not agree. I was also taught, "The Books of the Bible are inspired by God. Exactly what does this mean? It means that God is the Author of these books. God guided the penmen to write as He wished and to do so without error." You may not agree with that, but I do.


2. Jesus did not quote from a single DC book. At least not that anyone has been able to document. If you have a verse in the NT where Jesus QUOTES from a DC book(from your Canon or from the EO Canon or from the OO Canon), then let us know. I haven't seen it. To me, this is a moot point either way, but I disagree with the claim that He did so quote.


3. Yes, it is theoretically possible that the Mormons are correct and that there are dogmas Jesus taught that aren't inerrantly recorded by Divine Inspiration in God's Holy Scriptures (God either forgot to include them or thought of some other things to say later). If you want to accept the Book of Mormon as "another testament" equal to the Bible, it's okay with me. But other than the Book of Mormon, I'm not aware of any widely embraced book containing words of Jesus other than those in the NT. But I'd remind you that the Book of Mormon is generally not considered to be a DC book and so isn't a subject of this thread.



Thank you.


Pax!


- Josiah



.

 

[ScottBot]

Hey look! Jesus quoted Budha! We must therefore include all of the Budhist writtings into our Scripture as well!!

Buddha: One is the way to gain, the other is the way to Nirvana, knowing this fact, students of the Buddha should not take pleasure in being honored, but, should practice detachment.
Jesus: No slave can serve two masters For a slave will either hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.

Buddha: Just as a mother would protect her only child at the risk of her own life, even so, cultivate a boundless heart towards all beings. Let your thoughts of boundless love pervade the whole world.
Jesus: This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friends.

Buddha: If you do not tend to one another then who is there to tend to you? Whoever who would tend me, he should tend the sick.
Jesus: Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these, so you have done it unto me.

Buddha: Consider others as yourself.
Jesus: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Buddha: One who acts on truth is happy, in this world and beyond.
Jesus: You will know the truth and the truth will make you free.

Buddha:Hatred do not ever cease in this world by hating, but by love; this is an eternal truth... Overcome anger by love, Overcome evil by good. overcome the miser by giving, overcome the liar by truth.
Jesus: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. From anyone who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt. Give to everyone who begs from you; and if anyone takes away your goods, do not ask for them again.

More appropriately, if Buddah utterered anything that was truthful, he was quoting Jesus Christ, who predates the Buddah by....well.....eternity. Let the buddists put the quotes of Jesus into their religious texts. Who came first?

 

[BereanTodd]

More appropriately, if Buddah utterered anything that was truthful, he was quoting Jesus Christ, who predates the Buddah by....well.....eternity. Let the buddists put the quotes of Jesus into their religious texts. Who came first?

Budha lived somewhere around 500-400 BC. Yes Jesus is eternally pre-existent, but the timing of the quoted sayings is Budha's came first. So clearly, by DL's logic, Jesus was quoting BUdha, and by extention the Budhist writtings must be included in the canon of Scripture.

 

[ScottBot]

1. This is what I was taught in the Catholic Church. I have no idea what you were taught (heaven knows, all kinds of things are taught in the RCC): "The Bible is the Word of God and no greater assurance of credence can be given." You may not agree. I was also taught, "The Books of the Bible are inspired by God. Exactly what does this mean? It means that God is the Author of these books. God guided the penmen to write as He wished and to do so without error." You may not agree with that, but I do.


2. Jesus did not quote from a single DC book. At least not that anyone has been able to document. If you have a verse in the NT where Jesus QUOTES from a DC book(from your Canon or from the EO Canon or from the OO Canon), then let us know. I haven't seen it. To me, this is a moot point either way, but I disagree with the claim that He did so quote.


3. Yes, it is theoretically possible that the Mormons are correct and that there are dogmas Jesus taught that aren't inerrantly recorded by Divine Inspiration in God's Holy Scriptures (God either forgot to include them or thought of some other things to say later). If you want to accept the Book of Mormon as "another testament" equal to the Bible, it's okay with me. But other than the Book of Mormon, I'm not aware of any widely embraced book containing words of Jesus other than those in the NT. But I'd remind you that the Book of Mormon is generally not considered to be a DC book and so isn't a subject of this thread.



Thank you.


Pax!


- Josiah



.

1. I agree 100%. I never ever uttered anything other than the Scriptures are 100% inerrant (in their original epigraphy) and authoritative. I will never make the claim that the Sciptures are the SOLE authority. Just because I do not believe, as the Church teaches, that the Scriptures are the sole authority does not denigrate their inspiration nor their inerrancy.

2. You're right, Jesus didn't quote from a single deuterocanonical book. He quoted from multiple books. And just because He didn't prelude every one of these statements with "It is written" or quote previous texts verbatim, does not mean that He doesn't intentionally reference deuterocanonical books. Jesus tailored His address to His audience. To Saducees, He spoke only from the Torah. To Pharisees, He spoke from the Palistinian books (usually refered to as the Tanakh). To diaspora Jews, He spoke in reference to the Septuagint. All of these audiences would be familiar with His references. They would know that when he references the Wisdom of Jesus bin Sirach, when He says, "The fruit discloses the culitvation" (Sirach 27:9) in Matthew 7:16, "By their fruits you shall know them." Its is not a direct quote, Jesus never says "It is written" but Jews familiar with the Book of Sirach would have implicitly understood the reference, know that Jesus' teaching squared directly with the written text.

 

[ScottBot]

Budha lived somewhere around 500-400 BC. Yes Jesus is eternally pre-existent, but the timing of the quoted sayings is Budha's came first. So clearly, by DL's logic, Jesus was quoting BUdha, and by extention the Budhist writtings must be included in the canon of Scripture.

Technically no. Since all of the biblical writings are in some for a reference to the Truth, and Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life" ALL of the Old Testament writings are directly inspired by Christ, even through He wouldn't be physically manifest for hundreds of years after Buddah.

Since it is establish that Jesus is the Truth, anything truthful that came out of the mouth of the Buddah must be attributed to Christ. Unless there is some other source of Truth that you know about and would care to share with us.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

1. I agree 100%. I never ever uttered anything other than the Scriptures are 100% inerrant (in their original epigraphy) and authoritative. I will never make the claim that the Sciptures are the SOLE authority. Just because I do not believe, as the Church teaches, that the Scriptures are the sole authority does not denigrate their inspiration nor their inerrancy.

As far as I can tell, the Catholic and Protestant views of Holy Scripture is the same. What we disagree on is the equal authoritative status of a denomination's own teachings. But that's another topic for another thread...

2. You're right, Jesus didn't quote from a single deuterocanonical book. He quoted from multiple books.

The fact is, Jesus didn't quote from the DC at all. Not once. Not twice. Not thrice. Never. I regard that rather moot either way, but I reject the claim that He quoted from them when obviously He did not.



Thank you.


Pax!


- Josiah

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Why did the RC denomination take out 4 of the DC books from their canon?



Thanks.


Pax!


- Josiah



.

 

[ScottBot]

As far as I can tell, the Catholic and Protestant views of Holy Scripture is the same. What we disagree on is the equal authoritative status of a denomination's own teachings. But that's another topic for another thread...



The fact is, Jesus didn't quote from the DC at all. Not once. Not twice. Not thrice. Never. I regard that rather moot either way, but I reject the claim that He quoted from them when obviously He did not.



Thank you.


Pax!


- Josiah

We'll have to agree to disagree. I think the evidence that he referenced to DC to be well documented.

 

[BereanTodd]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I think the evidence that he referenced to DC to be well documented.

And I've doccumented just as clearly that he quoted Budha in the very same way that he quoted the DC. So why then are the writtings of Budha not in Scripture? He clearly quoted from them.

 

[ScottBot]

And I've doccumented just as clearly that he quoted Budha in the very same way that he quoted the DC. So why then are the writtings of Budha not in Scripture? He clearly quoted from them.

Because I've just as readily documented that Buddah quoted Jesus, not the other way around.

 

[BereanTodd]

Because I've just as readily documented that Buddah quoted Jesus, not the other way around.

Budha lived before Jesus. By your reasoning then Jesus did not quote the DCs, the DCs quoted Jesus. But either way the writtings of Budha, like the DC, predate the writtings of the NT. You can not apply one standard to one and another standard to the other. To do so makes you an inconsistent fool. By the standards we have been given, the writtings of Budha belong as Scripture, for they are reflected in the words of Christ in the same way that the DC is.

Moreover, Paul quoted some Greek poets, and even directly cited them (more than we can say for Christ with reference to either the DC or Buddha), so we should probably add those poets in as well.

 

[ScottBot]

Budha lived before Jesus. By your reasoning then Jesus did not quote the DCs, the DCs quoted Jesus. But either way the writtings of Budha, like the DC, predate the writtings of the NT. You can not apply one standard to one and another standard to the other. To do so makes you an inconsistent fool. By the standards we have been given, the writtings of Budha belong as Scripture, for they are reflected in the words of Christ in the same way that the DC is.

Moreover, Paul quoted some Greek poets, and even directly cited them (more than we can say for Christ with reference to either the DC or Buddha), so we should probably add those poets in as well.

Exactly, everything in Scripture is a quote of Jesus, since Jesus is the inspiration of ALL scripture.

Jesus is therefore quoting Himself.

 

[BereanTodd]

Exactly, everything in Scripture is a quote of Jesus, since Jesus is the inspiration of ALL scripture.

Jesus is therefore quoting Himself.

But you therefore miss the last step ... the reason for including the DC we are being told is Jesus quoted them. Well Jesus also quoted Buddha. Paul quoted (and cited) Greek poets. Why are they not in the Bible? You are being inconsistent.