Why no evidence FOR creation/ID?

[Divide]

There are Christian-only sections on this site. If you don't want to interact with atheists, stick to those sections.

Yeah, maybe. But I don't really pay a lot of attention to what forum I am in. I just click on new threads and read what I find interesting. And respond to what I feel I want to.

I'm not on here telling that guy to prove it to me and document it that he loves his wife, lol. I don't mind debating things, but some people don't accept anything as even possible, and that's not even realistic. If the tone is right, I don't mind spending the time to try to substantiate things, but...if it's not, why bother? He doesn't have to read or reply to my posts. A lot of my posts other people do agree with with. This is a Christian board first. Not a science board, not an atheism board. SO there you have it. If he's intelligent enough to be reasonable and not condescending then I would take more time and go into more detail for him. But he's not. So whatever. There are other atheists on this board that I get along fine with. What's the difference?

 

[gaara4158]

I tried a little bit with this guy and he's showing the same traits that I've seen before. He's not looking for answers. He's looking for an argument or to shoot someone down. It's a game to him.
If I had posted my notes on when I tested God about tithing, then he would have accused me of doctoring them and lying. Maybe if he wants to set up and pay for a lie detector session I'll go and recount when God spoke to me. I wont let anyone put me under hypnosis though.

I’m still here, you know. I debate because I like to learn. Nearly everything I know about evolution I learned through debate. Sure, there’s some ego involved, but my motives are irrelevant to the validity of my arguments.

If you think you have some good data, try me. I’m mainly interested in examining your methods of investigating reality, your results are secondary to that. I won’t call you a liar, but I might say your conclusions are premature.

 

[Divide]

If you are talking about Hitchslap, then maybe. The guy has been on here for ages, and I think he has entirely given up serious debate. I don't know of anyone else this would apply to.

No, I'm talking about gaara4198.

Dude, if you actually got them all correct, that would make for some instant conversion on my part, because I have never posted stuff anywhere that would give these things away as truth or lies. So, would doing it for the sake of converting people really be an abuse of it?

I am scared to use it in that manner. I don't even think I could. it is not something that I ask God to do and then He does it. I'll just be watching a video or reading...and it happens. i used to call it, He "pings" my spirit. But I've done a little reading and come to think it's really called a quickening of the spirit.

I think this is how some healers and false prophets get started and go bad. They have a gift, they use it for God's purpose...and then (the money starts rolling in?) they begin using it for their own purposes...and they may get rich, but the real gift is gone and they have to start lying or faking it and they will be in serious trouble come judgement day.

You be accused of lying? I think not. If anything, I'd be the one accused of lying, seeing as people have to rely on me to determine if the answers you give are right or not. The only way you'd be accused of lying is if you didn't get them right, and you believe in yourself, don't you?

Nah, this is a harsh bunch on this board. I'd get attacked big time, and perhaps rightly so! And if I even tried it, if I did get something wrong...I would lose all credibility and integrity and that's not something I'm prepared to do.

A shame you can't support your claim about it, then.

Well perhaps you've missed my point. My point is not, oh I have some special ability (I do not). The point is that, I know that Ron Wyatt is credible and speaks the truth.

It's not fortune telling, since it has nothing to do with determining the future or past, really.

Nah, I was just trying to make a point about Ron Wyatt. I prolly shouldn't have even mentioned it.

 

[gaara4158]

Well perhaps you've missed my point. My point is not, oh I have some special ability (I do not). The point is that, I know that Ron Wyatt is credible and speaks the truth.

I think you’ve missed her point. You say you know Wyatt is credible, but you justify this by saying you have this special hotline with God who tells you whom to believe. To support your claim that Wyatt is credible you’d need to support your claim that you receive tips from God about what’s true.

 

[Divide]

Funny how when people claim to have a special ability, they suddenly are unable to demonstrate it when put to the test.

Nope. I never claimed to have a special ability. I do not have any special abilities. That is just something that God has done for me in the past, and never has it happened because of my own volition.

So you being snarky about it saying that you want to put this to the test is totally out of line.

I was merely trying to make a point about Ron Wyatt is credible and I know this for a fact.

Ron Wyatt has been attacked over this because there is a real spiritual war going on, so people who speak truth will be attacked and denounced in an effort to lessen God's harvest and destroy God's people. Take that for what you will, but it is the truth.

So I felt the need to back Ron up on this for the fence sitters, who may wonder if it is true or not. I know it is true. Ron is top notch and his entire life was given to proving that the bible is true and he worked hard to do it. He found the Ark of the Covenant too. It's all on youtube.

That's my point. Ron is credible.
I DO NOT have any special abilities. I have a God.

 

[HitchSlap]

There’s a reason no one, theists and atheists alike, took Ron Wyatt serious. TBH, it’s hard to believe you’re not trolling us here.

 

[Divide]

I think you’ve missed her point. You say you know Wyatt is credible, but you justify this by saying you have this special hotline with God who tells you whom to believe. To support your claim that Wyatt is credible you’d need to support your claim that you receive tips from God about what’s true.

I'm not selling a book. I'm not selling a CD. I'm not making a claim about having a special ability. I'm making a claim that I know Ron Wyatt is credible.

Support your claim that he is not.

 

[HitchSlap]

I'm not selling a book. I'm not selling a CD. I'm not making a claim about having a special ability. I'm making a claim that I know Ron Wyatt is credible.

Support your claim that he is not.

I assert he hasn’t provided evidence for any of his claims.

 

[gaara4158]

I'm not selling a book. I'm not selling a CD. I'm not making a claim about having a special ability. I'm making a claim that I know Ron Wyatt is credible.

Support your claim that he is not.

I didn’t make that claim so I have no need to support it. Support your claim that Wyatt is credible. So far your support has been that you claim to get confirmation directly from God. So in order to support your claim that Wyatt is credible, you are required to support your claim that you get confirmation directly from God.

 

[Ophiolite]

He found the Ark of the Covenant too. It's all on youtube.

Wow! I mean wow. Really, I mean wow with so many bells on it a campanologist would pass out from excitement.

It is on youtube! Wow!

I was planning to engage you in a discussion on another thread because in our exchanges there you had appeared as a courteous, thoughtful open-minded person. Then you say something of such foolishness that, regretably, I am not left speechless.

Please apply your critical thinking skills and reflect upon how monumentally dumb your statement here was. Youtube! Wow!

 

[Herman Hedning]

Nope. I never claimed to have a special ability. I do not have any special abilities. That is just something that God has done for me in the past, and never has it happened because of my own volition.

So you being snarky about it saying that you want to put this to the test is totally out of line.

I was merely trying to make a point about Ron Wyatt is credible and I know this for a fact.

Ron Wyatt has been attacked over this because there is a real spiritual war going on, so people who speak truth will be attacked and denounced in an effort to lessen God's harvest and destroy God's people. Take that for what you will, but it is the truth.

So I felt the need to back Ron up on this for the fence sitters, who may wonder if it is true or not. I know it is true. Ron is top notch and his entire life was given to proving that the bible is true and he worked hard to do it. He found the Ark of the Covenant too. It's all on youtube.

That's my point. Ron is credible.
I DO NOT have any special abilities. I have a God.

Are you aware that bible-believing creationists also regard Wyatt as a charlatan? Here is an article by Answers in Genesis that debunks his claims rather strongly.

In the case of other recent “discoveries,” however, the would-be Indiana Joneses are very familiar with the Bible. Perhaps the most well-known are the claims of one Ron Wyatt, from Tennessee, heavily promoted also by a Jonathan Gray, from South Australia.

The Wyatt/Gray claims are truly astonishing . Unfortunately, reputable Bible-believing archaeologists and other experts willing and capable of giving an objective assessment are never able to check out the claimed artifacts. There is generally a plausible-sounding story as to why that is impossible, or why the time is not right. The alleged finding of the Ark of the Covenant is associated with claims of supernatural intervention, photographs mysteriously getting fogged or vanishing, and “Men in Black” style government cover-ups.

Are the claims true? If they are, such a staggeringly impressive list would mean that Ron Wyatt had been almost as miraculously assisted by God as the patriarch Moses. If, however, a careful examination of just one or two of these claims reveals them to be false, fanciful or fraudulent, the “divine leading” option evaporates, and it is clear that Christians are being seriously misled.

The full text is here: Has the Ark of the Covenant Been Found?

 

[Divide]

I didn’t make that claim so I have no need to support it. Support your claim that Wyatt is credible. So far your support has been that you claim to get confirmation directly from God. So in order to support your claim that Wyatt is credible, you are required to support your claim that you get confirmation directly from God.

I did support my claim. God let me know that Wyatt speaks the truth. I can't prove to you that God did this for me. So you either have to take my word for it or choose not to believe it.

I have no reason to lie and say Wyatt is credible when he is (supposedly) not. I'm not selling anything, nor related to his family in any way. I don't even know them. I've never met them. SO why would I lie about it?

 

[Divide]

Wow! I mean wow. Really, I mean wow with so many bells on it a campanologist would pass out from excitement.

It is on youtube! Wow!

I was planning to engage you in a discussion on another thread because in our exchanges there you had appeared as a courteous, thoughtful open-minded person. Then you say something of such foolishness that, regretably, I am not left speechless.

Please apply your critical thinking skills and reflect upon how monumentally dumb your statement here was. Youtube! Wow!

Oh come on man, really? Really?!

Ok, here goes...It's all over Youtube...that isn't proof that it must be true...it means that you can go watch the vids for yourself and make a determination for yourself if you think he comes across as credible.

Wow man.

 

[Divide]

Are you aware that bible-believing creationists also regard Wyatt as a charlatan? Here is an article by Answers in Genesis that debunks his claims rather strongly.



The full text is here: Has the Ark of the Covenant Been Found?

So? So everyone in the entire world doesn't believe it. Yeah, you'll have that on this planet. Would you like me to post some links to others who do believe it? You have made no point beyond the obvious. Some believe it, some don't...and...?


Are you all gettin' all frustrated on me? Lol./ Aw cheer up man.

 

[gaara4158]

I did support my claim. God let me know that Wyatt speaks the truth. I can't prove to you that God did this for me. So you either have to take my word for it or choose not to believe it.

That’s right, you can’t prove that God did it for you. Your support for your claim is another claim that you cannot support. So you in fact cannot support your claim. And you’re also right that we can either take your word for it or not. So why should we believe you?

I don’t suspect you’re lying to us, necessarily. You probably do sincerely believe you have God telling you when things are true. I just think it’s more likely you’re mistaken since we have plenty of examples of people being mistaken about this kind of thing and zero examples of them being confirmed correct.

 

[Ophiolite]

Oh come on man, really? Really?!

Ok, here goes...It's all over Youtube...that isn't proof that it must be true...it means that you can go watch the vids for yourself and make a determination for yourself if you think he comes across as credible.

Wow man.

I'm sorry, but while I acknowledge there are is a lot of good material on youtube, it is not the place to go for serious, scholarly works. It can be effective at presenting simplified, popularised versions of information and theories, but it does not generally provide material that can conveniently be properly assessed for value.

If you think he has something meanigful to say, tell me where I can read his properly referenced and logically argued research. Which journal was it published in? Don't fob me off with lightweight, dumbed down, rhetoric rich, youtube propoganda.

 

[Ophiolite]

So? So everyone in the entire world doesn't believe it. Yeah, you'll have that on this planet. Would you like me to post some links to others who do believe it? You have made no point beyond the obvious. Some believe it, some don't...and...?


Are you all gettin' all frustrated on me? Lol./ Aw cheer up man.

They have reason not to believe it. The evidence is against it. The guy is talking nonsense. Where are the critical thinking skills you claimed to have.

 

[Herman Hedning]

So? So everyone in the entire world doesn't believe it. Yeah, you'll have that on this planet. Would you like me to post some links to others who do believe it? You have made no point beyond the obvious. Some believe it, some don't...and...?


Are you all gettin' all frustrated on me? Lol./ Aw cheer up man.

Well, my post was a direct response to this:

Ron Wyatt has been attacked over this because there is a real spiritual war going on, so people who speak truth will be attacked and denounced in an effort to lessen God's harvest and destroy God's people. Take that for what you will, but it is the truth.

But I forgot that christians often work to "lessen God's harvest and destroy God's people". They are obviously not True Christians™.

 

[Divide]

That’s right, you can’t prove that God did it for you. Your support for your claim is another claim that you cannot support. So you in fact cannot support your claim. And you’re also right that we can either take your word for it or not. So why should we believe you?

I don’t suspect you’re lying to us, necessarily. You probably do sincerely believe you have God telling you when things are true. I just think it’s more likely you’re mistaken since we have plenty of examples of people being mistaken about this kind of thing and zero examples of them being confirmed correct.

I think you should consider the possiblility that what I say is true, simply because I have no reson to lie about it, nor have you suggested one as a possibility. I'm not in it for the money, I'm not trying to convert you, I simply made a claim that it was confirmed for me that it is true. You being an atheist, I don't really expect that you would believe that. However, I'm not just talking to you personally, but to many people.

Many people who are not atheist and think differently than you do, know that God does give people words of knowledge, and revelations of truth. They may see the videos, be unsure about it, but read what I have written about it, and they already may know that God works in these type of ways many times...so could find it an acceptable confirmation. Scripture say that in the mouth of two or three witnesses, the truth shall be established.

So there you have it. The atheists wont believe it, and others might. But just because you personally do not believe it, or believe in God...is no reason for you to be stiff-necked about it as if, you're right about everything and that's that. That's a fairly arrogant attitude to have. You not believing it, doesn't establish that it is untrue.

 

[Divide]

They have reason not to believe it. The evidence is against it. The guy is talking nonsense. Where are the critical thinking skills you claimed to have.

Boy, you are really hung up on that critical thinking stuff. We don't agree on what establishes a fact, that's all. Your facts must be able to be proven in a test environment. My facts do not always have to be established in a test environment. I know better than that.

It sounds as if science is your religion. Anything outside of science is wrong. And scientists never lie for the money...okayy...

Some facts that have been established for me, in a non-testable way, are still established facts and truth. This takes it into objectivity and critical thinking.

The truth is stranger than fiction brother. and if you can't grasp that, then we're unlikey to ever agree on anything. It may sound like foolishness to you...but that doesn't mean it is.