Why Mormons aren't christians.

[katautumn]

Since the beginning of Christianity, believers have used the scriptures to finger point and demonize other denominations by claiming they aren't "real Christians". Protestants do it to the Catholics, Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses and vice versa. It's alot easier to demean someone else's relationship with Christ because you lack understanding of their fundamental beliefs than it is to actually take some time to see where they are coming from.

 

[SwordOfGod]

I understand the viewpoint that you speak from and I respect that. That said, I am not trying to "demean" their relationship with Christ. I am simply pointing out scripture that seems to me to contradict mormon theology. If anyone wants to show me through the scriptures that I am wrong, then I welcome them.

 

[Eldy]

I understand the viewpoint that you speak from and I respect that. That said, I am not trying to "demean" their relationship with Christ. I am simply pointing out scripture that seems to me to contradict mormon theology. If anyone wants to show me through the scriptures that I am wrong, then I welcome them.

You are right. There is scripture that contradicts LDS theology. In the same vein, I could produce a bunch of scripture that contradicts theology for Baptist churches, Presbyterians, Catholics, Charismatics, ETC. ETC. ETC.....

To think that any of us have it all figured out would be lunacy.

 

[DaRkWoLf]

And the hindu trinity probably came from the wiccan trinity of mother, maiden and crone.. The origenal trinity was all female..

Wicca hasnt been around for more than 100 years, if that long; and most wiccans recognise that.

Therefore, the hindu trinity did not come from the life cycles of wicca.

 

[katautumn]

It isn't denominations contradicting the Scriptures. It's specific denominational doctrine that contradicts other denominations' doctrines.

 

[Q2004]

[*Clip*]

 

[SwordOfGod]

I agree that different denominations have differing doctrines, however that is not what I am writing about. I am writing about how the Bible, the word of God, contradicts the Book of Mormon which plainly states that there are multiple gods, as I pointed out in my first post. Also, I will not defend modern Christianity and its many different twists on the Bible, I firmly believe that a great deal of the modern churches(perhaps even whole denominations) are corrupt. However, if we agree that modern christianity is corrupt than how can we truly be a believer, how can we divorce ourselves from the bounds of doctrine and know what it truly means to be Christian? The Truth enlies in the difference between religion and Spirituality. This is the very essence of Christianity, it is the very point of the Church, it is the difference between the personal and the impersonal. That one can have a personal relationship with God Himself through His death on the cross, that we may be filled with Him and live eternally with Him, this is the one true message and point to life... according to the Bible, not the church.

 

[Orontes]

According to the book of Mormon, Jesus is not the One and Only, but one god among many, these being the Father, many Sons, including Lucifer and Jesus Christ.

Hello,

I get the sense you have never read the Book of Mormon. Am I correct?

 

[ladycat]

You christians teach out of fear.

Errm, I thought Mormons consider themselves Christians??

 

[DjDan]

I agree that different denominations have differing doctrines, however that is not what I am writing about. I am writing about how the Bible, the word of God, contradicts the Book of Mormon which plainly states that there are multiple gods, as I pointed out in my first post. Also, I will not defend modern Christianity and its many different twists on the Bible, I firmly believe that a great deal of the modern churches(perhaps even whole denominations) are corrupt. However, if we agree that modern christianity is corrupt than how can we truly be a believer, how can we divorce ourselves from the bounds of doctrine and know what it truly means to be Christian? The Truth enlies in the difference between religion and Spirituality. This is the very essence of Christianity, it is the very point of the Church, it is the difference between the personal and the impersonal. That one can have a personal relationship with God Himself through His death on the cross, that we may be filled with Him and live eternally with Him, this is the one true message and point to life... according to the Bible, not the church.

where in the book of mormon does it plainly state that there are multiple Gods?

 

[DjDan]

Errm, I thought Mormons consider themselves Christians??

We do.

I meant to write 'Christians' in that post, as opposed to Christians.. since it is alleged that we are not Christian, but only 'they' are.

 

[DjDan]

The idea of One Triune God is clearly not held by the Book of Mormon, but is very clearly held by the biblical Old and New Testaments. I give as evidence...
Old Testament (NIV)
DEUTERONOMY 6:4 Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

DEUTERONOMY 32: 39 See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me.

Isaiah 44: 6 This is what the Lord says, Israel's King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Isaiah 45: 5 I am the Lord, there is no other; apart from me there is no God.
New Testament
Mark 12: 29 Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One.

Now that the Word has established that there is indeed one God, is there any evidence that there is a trinity, and more importantly that Jesus is apart of that trinity?(KJV)

18) JOHN 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, {even} the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me

JOHN 17:21-23 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, {art} in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. (22) And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: (23) I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

MATTHEW 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

Just to throw a spanner in the works... check out this scripture from the book of mormon:

AND now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.

And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—

The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—

And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.

And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, suffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people. (Mosiah 15:1-5)

^ Is this not an idea of there being a Triune God? I'd say so.

 

[SwordOfGod]

I do not pretend to be an authority on the LDS Church, but please excuse me, are you actually stating that the religious texts of the mormon church do not state that one can become a god(and inherit a planet and have lots of little gods)? Also the book of Abraham (I know it's not in the book of mormon) talks all about the "council of the gods". You might say that since mormons are henotheistic that the Bible just focuses on one God and happens to not mention the others, however...

DEUTERONOMY 6:4 Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

DEUTERONOMY 32: 39 See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me.

Isaiah 44: 6 This is what the Lord says, Israel's King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Isaiah 45: 5 I am the Lord, there is no other; apart from me there is no God.
New Testament
Mark 12: 29 Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One.

Ah... but let us not forget the mormon teachings, so let us hear from the prophet himself...

"In the beginning the head of Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people on it...in all congregations when I have preached on the subiect of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods." Joseph Smith, History of the (Mormon) Church, Vol. 6, pp.308, 474.

Now onto the Mormon definition of the trinity, I think that the best way of putting it can only come from the prophet himself...

I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods. If this is in accordance with the New Testament, lo and behold! we have three Gods anyhow, and they are plural; and who can contradict it?...Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God anyhow - three in one, and one in three! It is a curious organization." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Pages 370&372)

As Joseph Smith has just said, the God of the trinity, the One of the bible (yet again, as I pointed out in the first post), is not the same as the god of the mormon church. By saying that God is not only non-triune but also not even One, how can it be claimed that mormons worship the same God as the christians. But why is this so important, why does it matter that there is only one God as compared to more? The answer is in the words of our savior Jesus Christ when He said 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me' John 14: 6. It means that His way is the only way, and if we do not even know who He is then I ask you, how can we be saved?

 

[SwordOfGod]

Correcting myself. DjDan said nothing about there being multiple gods, but the argument about God being triune still holds (so does the argument about there being only one God but not for this particular response). Sorry

 

[azzy]

Actually, if you want to be technical, the trinity is foreign to the Torah/Tanakh. Thus, according to Judaism (supported by the Torah/Tanakh) Christianity believes in multiple Gods.

No it isnt.

For unto us a child is born,unto us a son is given,and his name shall be called,Wonderfull,Counselor,Mighty God,everlasting Father.Isaiah

Here you have a person being born,who will be called mighty God,and this is in the old testament.

 

[Rae]

DEUTERONOMY 6:4 Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

Right. Which contradicts the common Christian assertion that Jesus is God. God is one, not two or three.

 

[ladycat]

He's 3 Persons manifested as One God. This is a very difficult concept to explain, but those of us who believe it understand it.

Was that clear as mud? lol

 

[Cassiopeia]

Still at this? It is really sad when we can't figure out that WE as humans do not determine who is Christian and who is not. That is up to the heart of the individual and the God above.

 

[DjDan]

He's 3 Persons manifested as One God. This is a very difficult concept to explain, but those of us who believe it understand it.

Was that clear as mud? lol

You understand it? You'd be the first 'christian' to tell me that. Even preacher's that i have spoken with do not understand it and say "it is a mystery".

The quote from JS above was far more understandable than the idea of there being a three-in-one God... yet not three in one, because they are seperate (ie. at Jesus' baptism), but they are yet the same... or something ?????

 

[ladycat]

You understand it? You'd be the first 'christian' to tell me that. Even preacher's that i have spoken with do not understand it and say "it is a mystery".

I guess we're running around in different Christian circles.

The closest anologies I can think of: think one government made up of separate individuals (ie President, VP, congress etc), or think one board of directors made up of individual members.

But those are poor analogies. It goes deeper than that but I really don't know how to explain it.

But my understanding comes from my own prayerful reading/study of the Bible. I read the NT over and over and over, and periodically delve into the OT.