Why Jerusalem is Mystically Called Sodom and Egypt

[BABerean2]

Well, Ezekiel 39:25 is Jesus speaking after he has returned in Ezekiel 39:21, having destroyed them who have gathered at Armageddon to make war against him in Ezekiel 39:17-20.

No, it is not fulfilled yet. And Gog/Magog has not be fulfilled either for that matter.

I don't think Pastor Chuck Baldwin has an answer of Ezekiel 39:17-29.

Commentary from Albert Barnes, who is one of Pastor Chuck Baldwin's favorite old-time commentators.

Ezekiel 39:17-29

The purposes of the past dispensation shall be made clear to God’s people themselves and to the pagan. His judgments were the consequence of their sins; and these sins once abandoned, the favor of their God will return in yet more abundance.

Eze_39:29
Compare Act_2:17. Peter distinctly appropriates these prophecies (marginal references) to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost, and the inauguration of the Church of Christ by that miraculous event. This was the beginning of the fulfillment. They shall find their consummation when time shall be no more.

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[Douggg]

Commentary from Albert Barnes, who is one of Pastor Chuck Baldwin's favorite old-time commentators.

Ezekiel 39:17-29

The purposes of the past dispensation shall be made clear to God’s people themselves and to the pagan. His judgments were the consequence of their sins; and these sins once abandoned, the favor of their God will return in yet more abundance.

Eze_39:29
Compare Act_2:17. Peter distinctly appropriates these prophecies (marginal references) to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost, and the inauguration of the Church of Christ by that miraculous event. This was the beginning of the fulfillment. They shall find their consummation when time shall be no more.

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"past dispensation"

You are now a dispensationalist? Anyway, Albert Barnes couldn't be more wrong in his understanding of Ezekiel 39:17-29.

 

[BABerean2]

"past dispensation"

You are now a dispensationalist? Anyway, Albert Barnes couldn't be more wrong in his understanding of Ezekiel 39:17-29.

Most older commentators said there are two dispensations.

One before the cross and one after the cross.

Does that make me a "Dispensationalist"?

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[Douggg]

Most older commentators said there are two dispensations.

One before the cross and one after the cross.

Does that make me a "Dispensationalist"?

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Sounds like it. Maybe - partial dispensationalist.

 

[BABerean2]

Sounds like it. Maybe - partial dispensationalist.

Be careful.

I remember the time that someone on this forum reported me for calling them a "Dispensationalist".

I am trying to remember who did that ???

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[Douggg]

Be careful.

I remember the time that someone on this forum reported me for calling them a "Dispensationalist".

I am trying to remember who did that ???

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Point made....

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Sounds like it. Maybe - partial dispensationalist.

That could work......... partial preteristism also has a nice ring to it

 

[Douggg]

That could work......... partial preteristism also has a nice ring to it

uh, BaB2, objects to it applied to him, so I am going to comply. Separately, it may be a term to apply to others... unless they object . Don't want to go to far with it.

 

[Riberra]

In Rev 11:8 Jerusalem is called Sodom and Egypt

John use that term in the Book of Revelation to describe the Jerusalem of the End Times ...


--In the time of Jesus and the Apostles Jerusalem was called the Holy City...The Holy Place.

Matthew 27:52-53
52 and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints that had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming forth out of the tombs after his resurrection they entered into the holy city and appeared unto many.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

John use that term in the Book of Revelation to describe the Jerusalem of the End Times ...

--In the time of Jesus and the Apostles Jerusalem was called the Holy City...The Holy Place.

Matthew 27:52-53
52 and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints that had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming forth out of the tombs after his resurrection they entered into the holy city and appeared unto many.

So the Jews, that have already endured 2 sackings of their City [Babylonians and Romans], along with a wwII holocaust, will have to endure a 3rd sacking?..........

Mark 13:1
Then as He went out of the temple, one of His disciples said to Him, “Teacher, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!”

Matthew 24:2
And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you,
not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
Mark 13:2
And Jesus answered and said to him, “Do you see these great buildings?
Not one stone shall be left upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
Luke 19:43
That shall be arriving days upon Thee,
and thy Enemies shall be casting up a rampart to Thee,
and shall be encompassing<4033> Thee,
and pressing thee every which place.
44 And shall be leveling Thee and Thy offspring in Thee,
and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in Thee,
instead which not Thou knew the time of Thy visitation/episkophV <1984>".

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

At this critical and alarming conjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman army was approaching the City.............

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover

In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem,
the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely leveled the whole circuit of the City, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings.
Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground.

Revelation 18:21
Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore.

 

[Riberra]

So the Jews, that have already endured 2 sackings of their City [Babylonians and Romans], along with a wwII holocaust, will have to endure a 3rd sacking?..........



Revelation 18:21
Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore.

That is not me who have written Revelation 18:21.

By the way the actual six pointed Star [HEXAGRAM] on the Israel flag founded in 1948 represent the star of Moloch a Babylonian God....Judaism is founded on the BABYLONIAN TALMUD ....

Link:more details
http://christianitybeliefs.org/end-times-deceptions/the-star-of-david-deception/

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That is not me who have written Revelation 18:21.

By the way the actual six pointed Star [HEXAGRAM] on the Israel flag founded in 1948 represent the star of Moloch a Babylonian God....Judaism is founded on the BABYLONIAN TALMUD ....

Interesting info, thanks.

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/tale-of-two-talmuds/
The two versions of the Talmud developed simultaneously in the two major Jewish communities of the rabbinic era.

When people speak of “the ,” they are usually referring to the Talmud Bavli (Babylonian Talmud), composed in Babylonia (modern-day Iraq).
However, there is also another version of the Talmud, the Talmud Yerushalmi (Jerusalem Talmud), compiled in what is now northern Israel. The Yerushalmi, also called the Palestinian Talmud or the Talmud Eretz Yisrael (Talmud of the Land of Israel), is shorter than the Bavli, and has traditionally been considered the less authoritative of the two Talmuds.....................

Parallels Between the Two Talmuds
As might be expected, the Bavli quotes mostly Babylonian rabbis, while the Yerushalmi more often quotes Palestinian rabbis. There is, however, much cross-over between the two Talmuds. Both Talmuds record instances of rabbis traveling from the land of Israel to Babylonia and vice versa.

Many times, the rabbis of one Talmud will compare their own practice to that of the other religious center. Early midrashim and other texts composed in Palestine appear more frequently in the Yerushalmi, but are also present in the Bavli......................

 

[BABerean2]

Interesting info, thanks.

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/tale-of-two-talmuds/
The two versions of the Talmud developed simultaneously in the two major Jewish communities of the rabbinic era.

When people speak of “the ,” they are usually referring to the Talmud Bavli (Babylonian Talmud), composed in Babylonia (modern-day Iraq).
However, there is also another version of the Talmud, the Talmud Yerushalmi (Jerusalem Talmud), compiled in what is now northern Israel. The Yerushalmi, also called the Palestinian Talmud or the Talmud Eretz Yisrael (Talmud of the Land of Israel), is shorter than the Bavli, and has traditionally been considered the less authoritative of the two Talmuds.....................

Parallels Between the Two Talmuds
As might be expected, the Bavli quotes mostly Babylonian rabbis, while the Yerushalmi more often quotes Palestinian rabbis. There is, however, much cross-over between the two Talmuds. Both Talmuds record instances of rabbis traveling from the land of Israel to Babylonia and vice versa.

Many times, the rabbis of one Talmud will compare their own practice to that of the other religious center. Early midrashim and other texts composed in Palestine appear more frequently in the Yerushalmi, but are also present in the Bavli......................

The following book reveals the perversions found in Talmudic Judaism.

https://www.amazon.com/Judaisms-Strange-Gods-Revised-Expanded/dp/0970378483

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[LittleLambofJesus]

The following book reveals the perversions found in Talmudic Judaism.

https://www.amazon.com/Judaisms-Strange-Gods-Revised-Expanded/dp/0970378483

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Aren't both of them built on ancient Jewish traditions, doctrines, perhaps some paganism involved?
As for traditions, Jesus mentions them in 2 of the Gospels: 3 times in Matthew 15 and 5 times Mark 7. The rest in the Epistles.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=G3862&ot=NASB&t=KJV#lexSearch

3862. paradosis par-ad'-os-is from 3860; transmission, i.e. (concretely) a precept; specially, the Jewish traditionary law:--ordinance, tradition.
Strong's Number G3862 matches the Greek παράδοσις (paradosis),
which occurs 14 times in 13 verses

 

[BABerean2]

Aren't both of them built on ancient Jewish traditions, doctrines, perhaps some paganism involved?
As for traditions, Jesus mentions them in Matt 15 and Mark 7

Yes, and no.

All of the rabbis who wrote the Talmud lived after 70 AD.
However, you are probably correct in the fact that much of it comes from fables and traditions from earlier times.

Much of the Talmud seems to be focused on how to get around the instructions of God found in the Old Testament. Having sex with girls under 4 years old is just one example of their perversion.

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[Erik Nelson]

Jude 5-7 says the Lord Jesus led his people out of Egypt, but destroyed unbelievers... similar to Sodom.

If Sodom = Egypt = Babylon = Crucifixion (Rev 11) = Jerusalem...

then Jude is stating that 70 AD was the Judgement of Christ vs. Jerusalem "and the surrounding towns" (of Judea, which were also conquered by the Romans)

Jude's grandchildren survived into the reign of Domitian, it's possible Jude wrote his Epistle after 70 AD

Jude 18 quotes 2 Peter 3:3 as a past statement, and 2 Peter was written around 67 AD...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Jude 5-7 says the Lord Jesus led his people out of Egypt, but destroyed unbelievers... similar to Sodom.

If Sodom = Egypt = Babylon = Crucifixion (Rev 11) = Jerusalem...

then Jude is stating that 70 AD was the Judgement of Christ vs. Jerusalem "and the surrounding towns" (of Judea, which were also conquered by the Romans)

Jude's grandchildren survived into the reign of Domitian, it's possible Jude wrote his Epistle after 70 AD
Jude 18 quotes 2 Peter 3:3 as a past statement, and 2 Peter was written around 67 AD...

Glad you brought up Jude.
You may want to check out this link to a post I put up:

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...hs-and-scorpions.8072257/page-4#post-72949506

Jude 1:11
Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain,
have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit,
and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Aren't both of them built on ancient Jewish traditions, doctrines, perhaps some paganism involved?
As for traditions, Jesus mentions them in Matt 15 and Mark 7

https://www.christianforums.com/bible/mark/7/

Yes, and no.

All of the rabbis who wrote the Talmud lived after 70 AD.
However, you are probably correct in the fact that much of it comes from fables and traditions from earlier times.

Much of the Talmud seems to be focused on how to get around the instructions of God found in the Old Testament. Having sex with girls under 4 years old is just one example of their perversion.
.

Well, I am sure it is tough on the Jew without a Priesthood, Temple and Sanctuary........It is like the RCC without the Vatican......

 

[BABerean2]

Jude 5-7 says the Lord Jesus led his people out of Egypt, but destroyed unbelievers... similar to Sodom.

If Sodom = Egypt = Babylon = Crucifixion (Rev 11) = Jerusalem...

then Jude is stating that 70 AD was the Judgement of Christ vs. Jerusalem "and the surrounding towns" (of Judea, which were also conquered by the Romans)

Jude's grandchildren survived into the reign of Domitian, it's possible Jude wrote his Epistle after 70 AD

Jude 18 quotes 2 Peter 3:3 as a past statement, and 2 Peter was written around 67 AD...

The context of the passage is addressed as a warning to the Church, instead of to the Jews not in the Church.

Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jud 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

Verse 5 could be a reference to Korah's rebellion against Moses, when the earth swallowed those who stood against Moses.

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[LittleLambofJesus]

The context of the passage is addressed as a warning to the Church, instead of to the Jews not in the Church.
Verse 5 could be a reference to Korah's rebellion against Moses, when the earth swallowed those who stood against Moses.
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Good reference.
A similar event is shown in Revelation 12 concerning the land swallowing the river of water coming from the Dragon.
Any idea what the "river of water" is symbolizing?

Jude 1:11
Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain,
have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit,
and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

Berean Study Bible)
Revelation 12:
15 Then from the mouth of the serpent spewed water like a river to overtake the woman and sweep her away in the torrent.
16 But the land helped the woman and opened its mouth to swallow up the river that had poured from the dragon’s mouth

Numbers 16:
31 As soon as Moses had finished saying all this, the ground beneath them split open,
32 and the land opened its mouth and swallowed them and their households, all Korah’s men and all their possessions.
33 They went down alive into Sheol with all they owned. The earth closed over them, and they vanished from the assembly.
34 At their cries, all the people of Israel who were around them fled, saying, “The land may swallow us too!”
35 And fire came forth from the LORD and consumed the 250 men who were offering the incense.

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/allusions-in-revelation-from-old-testament.7588850/

One man studied and found 348 allusions (not illusions, Light) in Revelation from the Old Testament. You see the similarity in wording and the context mirrored in Revelation and the particular Old Testament story, and immediately can recognize the reference source!
That's IF you know the bible well enough to even notice that.

95 of the 348 plain references used in Revelation as taken from the Old Testament are repeated in Revelation.
That makes about 250 Old Testament passages are cited. How many chapters are in Revelation? 22.
That makes about TEN OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCES FOR EVERY CHAPTER!