Why Jerusalem is Mystically Called Sodom and Egypt

[BABerean2]

The bible doesn't say the 7th trumpet in Revelation is the last trump to ever be sounded.

Can you show us the 8th trumpet in the Book of Revelation?

Do you deny that the New Covenant was promised to Jeremiah before the angel Gabriel appeared to Daniel, and do you deny that Daniel 9 is the timeline of the appearance of the promised Messiah, who would fulfill the New Covenant in His blood?

Can you explain why the scriptural reference beside of Daniel 9:27 in my NKJV Bible is Matthew 26:28?

.

 

[Douggg]

Can you show us the 8th trumpet in the Book of Revelation?

Unlike the 3 woes, the last trumpet was not a statement made internal to Revelation.

The rationale regarding what is the 3rd woe can be applied to the woe in Revelation 12 to the inhabitants of the earth, because the devil has come down knowing that he has but a short time.... being the 3rd woe because there are no other woes mentioned in the remainder of Revelation. The original mentioning of the woes was made in Revelation itself.

At the sound of the last trumpet is a statement made apart from Revelation in a message to the Corinthians. Paul did not give the trumpet a numerical value or that it had a numerical value..

Do you deny that the New Covenant was promised to Jeremiah before the angel Gabriel appeared to Daniel, and do you deny that Daniel 9 is the timeline of the appearance of the promised Messiah, who would fulfill the New Covenant in His blood?

BaB2, you are just muddy the waters. You are not explaining anything or making any sort of point to support your position whatever that is.

Can you explain why the scriptural reference beside of Daniel 9:27 in my NKJV Bible is Matthew 26:28?

I have no idea, but I can guarantee you that Gabriel did not put it there. Maybe you should check with the publishers.

 

[BABerean2]

BaB2, you are just muddy the waters. You are not explaining anything or making any sort of point to support your position whatever that is.

I asked a simple question about the relationship between Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Daniel 9:24-27.

The answer is found below.


Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH— (from Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.(from Jeremiah 31:31-34)
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.


The New Covenant: Bob George

For some reason you seem unable to verbalize the fact that the timeline of Daniel 9 is about Christ, who would fulfill the New Covenant in His blood.

And then you say I am the one "muddying the water".

Mat_7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

,

 

[Douggg]

I asked a simple question about the relationship between Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Daniel 9:24-27.

The answer is found below.


Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH— (from Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.(from Jeremiah 31:31-34)
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.


The New Covenant: Bob George

For some reason you seem unable to verbalize the fact that the timeline of Daniel 9 is about Christ, who would fulfill the New Covenant in His blood.

And then you say I am the one "muddying the water".

Mat_7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

,

But what is the point you are making? Everyone at this forum knows that Jesus is the new covenant.

 

[Davy]

from a preterist perspective, the two witnesses living for 1260d = 3.5 years matches Josephus' description of the siege of Jerusalem...

Jerusalem survived 3.5 years before the legions sacked the city, perhaps in parallel to Jesus surviving 3.5 years of ministry before being turned over to Pilate and his legionnaires

Matt 24:21-22
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
KJV

 

[BABerean2]

But what is the point you are making? Everyone at this forum knows that Jesus is the new covenant.

Apparently not, because you think the angel Gabriel failed to mention the New Covenant in Daniel 9:24-27.

And you also think he mentioned an antichrist not found in the passage, and you think he mentioned a "gap" of time, not found in the passage.

You ignore Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, which show that the Gospel was taken "first" to Daniel's people, before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles, in order for you to produce a future 70th week of Daniel.


Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

.

 

[Douggg]

Apparently not, because you think the angel Gabriel failed to mention the New Covenant in Daniel 9:24-27.

That's different from knowing that Jesus is the New Covenant. Gabriel was not told to mention the new covenant or else he would have. The covenant to be confirmed for 7 years in Daniel 9:27 is not the new covenant.

And you also think he mentioned an antichrist not found in the passage, and you think he mentioned a "gap" of time, not found in the passage.

I have never said the term antichrist is found in Daniel 9. I am saying the prince who shall come - who is in the text - will be the little horn who becomes the Antichrist.

I have never said there was a gap of time stated in the text. The final week though of 7 years is associated with the confirming of the covenant in the text.

You ignore Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, which show that the Gospel was taken "first" to Daniel's people, before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles, in order for you to produce a future 70th week of Daniel.

None of the apostles say in any of the above passsages that those constitute the confirming of the covenant for 7 years of Daniel 9. You, on the other hand, ignore what it says in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 of what Moses required of all future leaders to Israel to essentially confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant on the 7 year cycle. The 7 years right in the text.

 

[BABerean2]

The covenant to be confirmed for 7 years in Daniel 9:27 is not the new covenant.

That is your opinion, which is designed to make your doctrine work.

The following comes from the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America over 300 years before I was born.


Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.

Daniel 9:27

And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

.

 

[Douggg]

The following comes from the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America over 300 years before I was born.

Read Deuteronomy 31:9-13 from that same bible. The for 7 years is in this passage.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+31:9-13&version=GNV

The 1599 Geneva Bible is doing interpretation in Daniel 9 and not translation.

 

[BABerean2]

Read Deuteronomy 31:9-13 from that same bible. The for 7 years is in this passage.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+31:9-13&version=GNV

The 1599 Geneva Bible is doing interpretation in Daniel 9 and not translation.

You are doing the same thing...


Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

.

 

[Douggg]

You are doing the same thing...

I am not presenting what I say as a bible translation, like the interpreters of the 1599 Geneva bible do.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Can you show us the 8th trumpet in the Book of Revelation?
*snip*
.

The only 8th I see mentioned in Revelation is this beast:

Revelation 17:11
“The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven,
and is going to destruction.

 

[BABerean2]

I am not presenting what I say as a bible translation, like the interpreters of the 1599 Geneva bible do.

Your claim that Daniel 9:27 has nothing to do with the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34 only comes by cutting Matthew 26:28, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 7:12, and Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24, out of your Bible.

Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

.

 

[Douggg]

Your claim that Daniel 9:27 has nothing to do with the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34 only comes by cutting Matthew 26:28, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 7:12, and Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24, out of your Bible.

Guess what? All those passages are in my bible - plus Deuteronomy 31:9-13 which has the 7 years right in the text.

BaB2, just listing verses that say what the new covenant is - does not make it the covenant that is confirmed for 7 years in Daniel 9, to complete the 70 weeks.

 

[BABerean2]

BaB2, just listing verses that say what the new covenant is - does not make it the covenant that is confirmed for 7 years in Daniel 9, to complete the 70 weeks.

The claim that there is a "gap" in the 490 year prophecy comes to pieces unless a person ignores Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18. These passages reveal that the Gospel was taken first to the Jews for a period of about 7 years, before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles.

What you are claiming is a pillar of the Two Peoples of God doctrine, which claims the Church is a parenthesis in God's plan of dealing with the nation of Israel.

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:18-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, the Two Peoples of God doctrine falls apart, and your future 70th week of Daniel falls apart with it.

.

 

[Douggg]

Can you show us the 8th trumpet in the Book of Revelation?
.

BaB2, is the 7th trumpet in Revelation 11 - before or after this trumpet in Matthew 24;31? Matthew 24:31 is after the great tribulation.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[BABerean2]

BaB2, is the 7th trumpet in Revelation 11 - before or after this trumpet in Matthew 24;31? Matthew 24:31 is after the great tribulation.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

We know from the fact that Christ returns in Revelation 16:15-16 and also in chapter 19 that the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.


Mat 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Mat 24:30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Rev 6:12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains,
Rev 6:16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
Rev 6:17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"

They would not be hiding from the wrath of the Lamb, unless the Lamb is present during this period of time.

The above are parallel accounts of the same event.

.

 

[Douggg]

They would not be hiding from the wrath of the Lamb, unless the Lamb is present during this period of time.

The above are parallel accounts of the same event.

The sign of the son of man in heaven in Matthew 24:30 is the same account in Revelation 6, the sixth seal, yes. But that is not the issue.

The 7th trumpet cannot be the last trumpet to be blown - if after Jesus has returned, another trumpet blows in Matthew 24:31, to gather the elect, Ezekiel 39:25.

 

[BABerean2]

The sign of the son of man in heaven in Matthew 24:30 is the same account in Revelation 6, the sixth seal, yes. But that is not the issue.

The 7th trumpet cannot be the last trumpet to be blown - if after Jesus has returned, another trumpet blows in Matthew 24:31, to gather the elect, Ezekiel 39:25.

Was the house of Israel brought out of captivity after Ezekiel 39:25 was written?

Why do those promoting man-made doctrines go back to the Old Testament in an attempt to find a verse that will validate their doctrine?

The trumpet found in Matthew 24:31 is blown at His return, not "after" His return.

Anyone who claims the 7th trumpet in Revelation 11:15 is not the last trumpet is attempting to make their man-made doctrine work.

.

 

[Douggg]

Was the house of Israel brought out of captivity after Ezekiel 39:25 was written?

Well, Ezekiel 39:25 is Jesus speaking after he has returned in Ezekiel 39:21, having destroyed them who have gathered at Armageddon to make war against him in Ezekiel 39:17-20.

No, it is not fulfilled yet. And Gog/Magog has not be fulfilled either for that matter.

I don't think Pastor Chuck Baldwin has an answer of Ezekiel 39:17-29.