WHY ISREAL IS NOT PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST .

[HARK!]

When we accept Christ obedience at the cross, we received his righteousness.

No torah is involved there

This statement defies the law of noncontradiction.

Definition of righteous

1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
Definition of RIGHTEOUS

 

[HARK!]

When we accept Christ obedience at the cross, we received his righteousness.

No torah is involved there

This statement defies the law of noncontradiction.

Definition of righteous

1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
Definition of RIGHTEOUS

 

[HARK!]

Would Paul explanation in Romans 5:12-19 satisfy you there?

Satisfy me as to what?

 

[Guojing]

This statement defies the law of noncontradiction.

Definition of righteous

1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
Definition of RIGHTEOUS

I am understanding Romans 5:12-19 literally.

How else would you understand what Paul is saying there, care to explain?

 

[Guojing]

Satisfy me as to what?

How all of us can sin without the Torah.

 

[HARK!]

How all of us can sin without the Torah.

Here is what Paul said about those who sin without the Torah, earlier in this letter:


(CLV) Ro 2:12
for whoever sinned without law, without law also shall perish, and whoever sinned in law, through law will be judged.

I'd rather just be judged. How about you?

 

[Guojing]

Here is what Paul said about those who sin without the Torah, earlier in this letter:


(CLV) Ro 2:12
for whoever sinned without law, without law also shall perish, and whoever sinned in law, through law will be judged.

I'd rather just be judged. How about you?

As long as you agree with me that one can sin without the Torah, I am fine.

If you do, then would that be enough for you to accept the possibility that one can be saved, without being in any covenant?

 

[HARK!]

If you do, then would that be enough for you to accept the possibility that one can be saved, without being in any covenant?

No.

I don't recall. Did you ever answer whether or not you believe that one can enter a marriage covenant without a covenant?

 

[Guojing]

No.

I don't recall. Did you ever answer whether or not you believe that one can enter a marriage covenant without a covenant?

Why is that still not possible? Or are you simply saying no but you don't wish to explain further?

As for your other point, we are talking about salvation here, your marriage covenant is a separate topic.

Unless you assume salvation from sins and marriage as equivalent?

 

[HARK!]

Why is that still not possible? Or are you simply saying no but you don't wish to explain further?

The question hints of the explanation.

As for your other point, we are talking about salvation here, your marriage covenant is a separate topic.

It is integral to this topic.

Unless you assume salvation from sins and marriage as equivalent?

It's integral. Unless we are in Yahshua, there is no salvation. What does bride of Messiah mean to you?

It means a marriage covenant to me.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Using the analogy of a gift, which is entirely a New Testament concept, no covenant needs to be undertaken.

When friends and family give me gifts, they do not bind me into a covenant relationship.

Is salvation from sin a gift by God's grace or a wage earned through meritorious works of righteousness according to covenant stipulations?

 

[Guojing]

The question hints of the explanation.



It is integral to this topic.



It's integral. Unless we are in Yahshua, there is no salvation. What does bride of Messiah mean to you?

It means a marriage covenant to me.

If you are very concerned about that, let me give you a direct answer.

The Bride of Christ, marriage supper of the lamb, any thing that involves marriage, in scripture refers to the union of the nation of Israel and Jesus Christ.

But us in the Body of Christ, is always separate from Israel, we are a new creation, as I have said to you many times.

 

[HARK!]

The Bride of Christ, marriage supper of the lamb, any thing that involves marriage, in scripture refers to the union of the nation of Israel and Jesus Christ.

If YHWH's renewed covenant is with Israel (It is.) ; and Yahshua was commissioned for none but the lost sheep of Israel (He was) ; then how can anyone but a fellow citizen of Israel be in union with Yahshua?

Gentiles? Not Anymore!

 

[HARK!]

If you are very concerned about that, let me give you a direct answer.

The Bride of Christ, marriage supper of the lamb, any thing that involves marriage, in scripture refers to the union of the nation of Israel and Jesus Christ.

But us in the Body of Christ, is always separate from Israel, we are a new creation, as I have said to you many times.

The body of Messiah is Israel. One can't marry into the family without a marriage covenant.

 

[Guojing]

If YHWH's renewed covenant is with Israel (It is.) ; and Yahshua was commissioned for none but the lost sheep of Israel (He was) ; then how can anyone but a fellow citizen of Israel be in union with Yahshua?

That is why I have been telling you since , and the topic of this thread is,

The Body of Christ is an entirely new creation, and is separate from Israel.

But from our exchange, I think you find it absolutely impossible to see or accept the possibility of that distinction.

 

[HARK!]

The Body of Christ is an entirely new creation, and is separate from Israel.

(CLV) 1Co 12:13
For in one spirit also we all are baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and all are made to imbibe one spirit.

YHWH's covenant is with Israel. Surely you aren't suggesting that Yahshua is out of YHWH's covenant?

 

[Guojing]

(CLV) 1Co 12:13
For in one spirit also we all are baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and all are made to imbibe one spirit.

YHWH's covenant is with Israel. Surely you aren't suggesting that Yahshua is out of YHWH's covenant?

No one is saying anything close to that.

We are in the Body of Christ, which is a new creation.

We are saved because God sees us in him (Ephesians 1:7).

 

[HARK!]

No one is saying anything close to that.

We are in the Body of Christ, which is a new creation.

We are saved because God sees us in him (Ephesians 1:7).

The verse that you cited does not support what you purport.

There isn't division within the body. Those who were outside of the body are now grafted into Israel.

Do you accept Ephesians 2?


Gentiles? Not Anymore!

 

[Guojing]

The verse that you cited does not support what you purport.

There isn't division within the body. Those who were outside of the body are now grafted into Israel.

Do you accept Ephesians 2?


Gentiles? Not Anymore!

We have different interpretations of what that passage means.

While I can accept the possibility that yours may be correct, you cannot seem to be able to do so for mine.

 

[HARK!]

We have different interpretations of what that passage means.

What does this verse mean to you?

12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world."

Please break it down step by step, in baby steps; so that I can understand what you understand.