Why isn't there more condemnation of idiots

[katherinethegreat]

Okay, let's cut to the chase.

As a Christian, while I don't hate those who use evil to terrorize others, that doesn't mean that I approve of their efforts to bring fear to people as they seek ways to take lives and cause pain and suffering.

Jesus taught toleration is some aspects, but not in others. For instance, he taught toleration of those who didn't wash their hands before eating, but had no tolerance for those who ignored God's law while establishing their own standard of righteousness (Matthew 15:1-20). If He taught toleration of homosexuality, then I have completely missed it.

Jesus did NOT teach toleration of all the various religious faiths and their respective founders or leaders. Rather, He taught that He was the sole way to reach God (John 14:6).

Being "straight" is NOT the only choice for people. It is the choice for people who desire to please God while being sexually active. Those who desire to disregard marriage (see Jesus' teaching in Matthew 19:4-6) and commit fornication (see 1 Corinthians 6:18; 7:1-9) have the right to do so. The confusion comes in when they think that God will accept such sinful activity, and that those who are faithful to God's word will be willing to accept and condone such sinful behavior. I often wonder if those who commit that which is "against nature" and "shameful" will accept and condone the actions of others in the same context of Scripture that do NOT meet God's approval (see Romans 1:18-32).

If the homosexual is born the way they are and can't help themselves, then maybe the same argument could be made for others who are condemned in the same context of Scripture. For instance, look at all the things listed in Romans 1:18-32 that God condemns, especially the latter part of verse 29. Murder is listed there. Now, let's apply your reasoning - - they are born that way and can't help themselves. Sound reasonable? This is where your logic takes you.

Anyone that has an attitude toward homosexuals that they pray to God for them to get a disease that will kill them or pray to God to kill homosexual defilers needs to spend more time with His word, because that teaching simply is NOT there.

Am I an extremist or terrorist because I stand opposed to homosexuality? No more than Jesus - - who, after all, taught against "fornication" (the Greek word "porneia" which includes ALL sexual relations outside of marriage - - the marriage that God approves of - Matthew 19:4-6 & 1 Corinthians 7:2) in Matthew 15:19. No more than the apostle Paul who taught against homosexuality in Romans 1:26-27. Did the Lord teach His followers to use force or physical harm to get sinners to stop their behavior? No! Rather, He told them the truth about their actions, and about the consequences of their actions. Likewise, you should expect and receive no different conduct from God's people today.

like he schism said..there should be more condemnation for idiots in this world!

 

[Schism]

Rolled eyes indicate sarcasm--as does the title that mimics another in Philosophy & Morality.


I don't encourage people to tolerate those that kill others--like terrorists--but I see no reason to go out of one's way to intentionally cause trouble to those that do nothing painful to others.

 

[- DRA -]

LOL I always say that painfully stupid people, when they die, deserve to be re-incarnated as a toilet bowl brush.

Your insinuation that those who oppose homosexuality should be re-incarnated as toilet bowl brushes deserves a response.

Jesus taught that those things that defile a person - - evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, and blasphemies - - come from a person's thinking (Matthew 15:18-20). In essence, you say or do what you think about in your mind. As we apply the Lord's teaching to your words, we shouldn't have any trouble understanding where your mind is.

Ever given any consideration to the word "fornication" (the Greek word porneia) that Jesus mentioned in the previous passage of Scripture? It is a broad term that includes all sexual relations outside of marriage - - even homosexuality. Is the Lord also one of those "painfully stupid people" that you refer to?

 

[katherinethegreat]

yeah but jesus wasn't the one to say the thing about two men sleepign together..it was paul

 

[Schism]

msjones didn't point out people who oppose homosexuality, he just said stupid people.

While started by the problems with gays I created the thread to be pointed at all idiots. Opposing something is one thing, being obsessive compulsive about it is another.

Homophobes think about gay acts more than gay people do.

 

[- DRA -]

All in all, a good post DRA.

Just two things

First, I don't see toleration necessarily as acceptance and condoning. Tolerance, I thought, means you attempt to co-exist with something you disagree with.
Secondly, I agree that the Lord did not teach his followers to use force or physical harm to get sinners to stop. But I think some of his followers get a little overzealous in the name of truth.
Just my opinion though

Thanks for your response.

Please allow me to explain my reasoning from another angle. Look closely at Romans 1:32 - - "Who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them." (NKJV) Homosexuality is one of many things that is condemned in the previous verses (18-31). It is one thing to acknowledge that homosexuality is a sin and try to overcome it, but quite another to deny that it is a sin, give in to it, and approve (the Greek word suneudokeo) of others who do likewise. Rather than walk in the light, the homosexual who approves of such conduct is walking in darkness (1 John 1:5-7). Because they do not abide in the doctrine of Christ, I refuse to "share" in their evil deeds (2 John 9-11).

How do you think some of Jesus' followers are a "little overzealous" in their stand against homosexuality?

 

[- DRA -]

yeah but jesus wasn't the one to say the thing about two men sleepign together..it was paul

Did you consider what Jesus condemned by the word "fornication" (porneia) in Matthew 15:19?

Concerning the apostle Paul's teaching, the teaching came from someone else. Consider where Paul said that it came from . . . "But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ. (Galatians 1:11-12).

 

[- DRA -]

msjones didn't point out people who oppose homosexuality, he just said stupid people.

Msjones can probably speak better for what msjones intended than you can.

While started by the problems with gays I created the thread to be pointed at all idiots. Opposing something is one thing, being obsessive compulsive about it is another.

Really? Your second paragraph of the original post gave me the distinct impression that you were targeting those who opposed gays. Who are the "all idiots" that you wish to discuss? Do you oppose anything? If so, how do you then differ from the other idiots?

Homophobes think about gay acts more than gay people do.

I can't speak for other "homophobes," but I can say for certain that this one doesn't. I also oppose other things the Bible describes as sin. That doesn't mean that I think about those acts more than those who commit them, it just means that I oppose them.

 

[Nihilist Comedian]

DRA

Msjones can probably speak better for what msjones intended than you can.

And a lot better than you can, too.

Really? Your second paragraph of the original post gave me the distinct impression that you were targeting those who opposed gays. Who are the "all idiots" that you wish to discuss? Do you oppose anything? If so, how do you then differ from the other idiots?

The second paragraph that Schism wrote was an example. I have read through this whole debate and it seems apparent that you never seek to understand people's posts before replying. Please practice some comprehension skills, it is irritating to read.

I can't speak for other "homophobes," but I can say for certain that this one doesn't. I also oppose other things the Bible describes as sin. That doesn't mean that I think about those acts more than those who commit them, it just means that I oppose them.

Self-confessed homophobe? Wow, we are living in fear aren't we? Now, if you oppose all sins, than you are a pretty self-loathing person, aren't you? Fearful and low self-esteem: is this the new Christian combination?

 

[katherinethegreat]

hey DRA let he without sin throw the first stone...you aren;t holier than thou..please don't act like it! and its sad that you are proud of your homophobe statis...its klike saying yeah i am soo proud of myself for hating others...congrats on that

 

[Schism]

sarcasm always seperates the wise from the fool

 

[MQTA]

The sarcastic one being the wise?

 

[- DRA -]

DRA

And a lot better than you can, too.

The second paragraph that Schism wrote was an example. I have read through this whole debate and it seems apparent that you never seek to understand people's posts before replying. Please practice some comprehension skills, it is irritating to read.

Self-confessed homophobe? Wow, we are living in fear aren't we? Now, if you oppose all sins, than you are a pretty self-loathing person, aren't you? Fearful and low self-esteem: is this the new Christian combination?

I think I understand people's posts and their insinuations to those who oppose homosexuality on this thread pretty well. In case the thought hasn't occurred to you, I resent the implications that are being made about those who will NOT approve and consent to the gay and lesbian lifestyles.

I am not saying that I could not improve in comprehension skills, but I have not found mine to be quite as deficient as you portray them. If my posts are that irritating to read, then, by all means, do NOT read them. That should solve the problem - - from your perspective.

What do you think my use of the term "homophobe" suggested? I know the terms that gays use to label those who oppose them. I am not disturbed if that label is put on me because I take a stance against homosexuality based on the teaching of God's word. My position is that the labels, insinuations, and implications such as I've seen on this thread against those who respect what the Bible says about sexuality are just red herrings that attack the person because they cannot deal with the reasoning. Now, having said that, let me make something clear - - I am not attempting to impose my opinions or judgments on NO ONE. My intentions are to solely share with all what God's word says about homosexuality. Like in all spiritual matters, once we are faced with God's word we have two choices:
1.) to respect, reverence, and heed God's word
2.) or not to

While you may describe one who stands opposed to ALL sins as a "pretty self-loathing person," that is just your viewpoint. Did the thought ever occur to you that your viewpoint is not what is really important as I view my life and my commitment to serve God? What do you suggest I do? Stand opposed to only SOME sins, so you could point out how inconsistent I am? Or, stand opposed to NO sins at all?

Believe it or not, fear - - that is, godly fear - - is very much a part of a Christian's life. Therefore, the Christian will seek to serve, please God, and reverence Him even when others may mock, ridicule, or belittle them for their beliefs and stand for that which is the truth.

Low self-esteem? You really are a comedian . . . as your user name suggests. Good one. I like it.

 

[chalice_thunder]

with all the people that are extremist like terrorists and fanatics wouldn't it be right to just haul off and hate them? i mean toleration is so non-christian why can't we just hate other people especially those outside our faith or those of difference

being straight is the only obvious choice for people why can't the gay people just contract disease and die--obviously they must have chosen to be gay because being born that way has nothing to do with it. i always want different people to die from disease and i pray to god every day to just kill the defilers!

Open your heart to let God's love in, brother/sister. You will be a happier and more blessed child of God if you do.

 

[Nihilist Comedian]

I respect the fact that you are so loyal to your faith. When someone sticks a hole through it, you have a strong capacity to walk around it. The "low self-esteem" bit is derived from your stance on sin, considering that you would not be exempt from sin. I cannot debate further, because your opinion is your opinion. I do think that you misunderstood some stuff earlier, which is mainly why I posted.

 

[Schism]

chalice thunder---sarcasm...sarcasm...sarcasm--was not being serious


it takes many keen acts to be considered wise and only one foolish act to be considered a fool

 

[- DRA -]

hey DRA let he without sin throw the first stone...you aren;t holier than thou..please don't act like it! and its sad that you are proud of your homophobe statis...its klike saying yeah i am soo proud of myself for hating others...congrats on that

I assure you that there are NO stones in my hands. As a Christian, it is not my place to judge others. Nor, is it my place to excuse those things that the Bible portrays as sin and worthy of death (Romans 1:18-32). God's word has spoken about homosexuality. God is the one that declares His judgment on this matter, not me. You really should give credit to whom credit is due.

My point about the homophobe was to respond to yet another insinuation against those who oppose homosexuality. I only intended to let others know that I am not afraid of being labeled in that way by homosexuals because of my stance against their lifestyle. I did not intend to suggest or imply that I "hate" those that I oppose. If hate was my true motivation, then I would not take the time that I have taken to warn of God's disaproval of homosexuality and provide Scriptural references and reasoning for those who are interested in what God's word says. If I truly hated the homosexual, then I would sound no warning and allow them to continue on their path that leads away from God. Rather than hate the homosexual and see them condemned, my desire is that they repent of this lifestyle, turn to God, obey His will, and be with God forever in heaven. I don't believe that hate is the motivator for this desire, rather, I like to think that there is another four-letter word that describes it.

 

[chalice_thunder]

Rolled eyes indicate sarcasm--as does the title that mimics another in Philosophy & Morality.

DOH!! I fell for it...missed the sarcasm.

OK - put me in the idiot column.....

 

[chalice_thunder]

DOH!! I fell for it...missed the sarcasm.

OK - put me in the idiot column.....

Ah - coffee is kicking in. Perhaps I will be able to discern better now.
[still stinging from falling into the idiot trap!]

 

[- DRA -]

I respect the fact that you are so loyal to your faith. When someone sticks a hole through it, you have a strong capacity to walk around it. The "low self-esteem" bit is derived from your stance on sin, considering that you would not be exempt from sin. I cannot debate further, because your opinion is your opinion. I do think that you misunderstood some stuff earlier, which is mainly why I posted.

I am not exempt from sin. All have sinned (Rom. 3:23). The wages for sin are clearly spelled out (Rom. 6:23). I am very thankful that God has extended His grace to all (Titus 2:11). But on a sad note, I also have to realize that all will not be saved (Matt. 7:13-14). My desire, as was the apostle Paul's, is to help "some" others be saved (Rom. 11:14; 1 Cor. 9:22). I do no one any favors by approving of any of the things that God condemns. Homosexuality falls into that category. God has spoken about this matter in His word, and it is my responsibility to help others understand His will. I understood from the first post that this thread was started with the intent of making those who stand opposed to homosexuality out to be something that they are not. We are NOT idiots, terrorists, or commode brushes. Nor do we oppose homosexuality because we have some phobia. Sincere Christians stand opposed to it because they understand the seriousness of the matter - - it is a sin that is specifically described in detail (Rom. 1:26-27), the consequences are spelled out (Rom. 1:32), and there is only one final abode for those who are separated from God (2 Thess. 1:8-9, Rev. 20:12). Note also Rev. 21:8 - - the "sexually immoral." I desire better things for the people who are traveling on this path to destruction (see Rev. 21:3-4). Therefore, I labor as I do.