Why isn't the Qur'an in chronological order?

[Ronnee743]

genealogy ? which one there seem to be two and they are conflicting.

They do not conflict. You just don't understand them.

How do you know that where in the bible does Jesus say I am GOD

.

The entire Bible says he is God if you would only read it from start to finish. It is in chronological order.

So what every religion would reveres its founder more than someone else.if we revered Jesus more than the prophet Mohamed (saws) than we should call ourselves christians then..There is no need for the Genealogy of Mohmed in the Quran since it is not his biography, it is the word of GOD. Do you want the genealogy of prophet Mohamed I will look in my discs and post for you.

The entire civilized world knows
that Muhammed ibn Abdulla
has no genealogy, no pedigree.
The only Man in the history
of the world who can trace his
ancestry back name by name
to Adam is Jesus Christ, the Son of God.....
and this is so we can know who he is.

That is the fault of the Bible cos it gives contradicting accounts of everything, 4 authors who were not even there, who are writing from hearsay.
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
Aka James the just

This is what you want to
believe because if you knew
the truth, it would shatter
your belief in Muhammed.

 

[peaceinislam]

I see a difference here. You say that you embraced Islam, yet in Christianity it was Jesus who embraced me.
I never thought of that until I read what you said.

1) when did jesus embrace u? why didnt he do so earlier? why hasnt he embraced others? why did he did say he was sent only to israel?

2) this is the answer to question 1.
42:13 He (Allah) has ordained for you the same religion (Islam) which he ordained for Nooh (Noah), and that which We have inspired in you (O Muhammad SAW), and that which We ordained for Ibraheem (Abraham), Moosa (Moses) Iesa (Jesus) saying you should establish religion (i.e. to do what it orders you to do practically), and make no divisions in it (religion) (i.e. various sects in religion). Intolerable for the unbelievers , is that to which you (O Muhammad SAW) call them. Allah chooses for Himself whom he wills, and guides unto Himself who turns to Him in repentance and in obedience.

35:8 Is he, then, to whom the evil of his deeds made fairseeming, so that he considers it as good (equal to one who is rightly guided)? Verily, Allah sends astray whom he wills, and guides whom he wills. So destroy not yourself (O Muhammad SAW) in sorrow for them. Truly, Allah is the AllKnower of what they do!

But, do you have peace about when you die?

Life is a spiritual struggle. to love of god. & knowledge & worship of Him:
70:19-35 Lo! man was created anxious,
Fretful when evil befalleth him
And, when good befalleth him, grudging;
Save worshippers.
Who are constant at their worship
And in whose wealth there is a right acknowledged for the beggar and the destitute;
And those who believe in the Day of Judgment,
And those who are fearful of their Lord's doom
And those who preserve their chastity
And those who keep their pledges and their covenant,
And those who stand by their testimony
And those who are attentive at their worship.
These will dwell in Gardens, honoured.

I can also tell from your question that u believe u have gods favor now & in the hereafter will have more favor & peace? Maybe u should heed the lesson of prophet jonah(p)! Look at what happened to him(p). (& He was far, far, far greater than all of us):
68:39-52
Shall We then treat the (submitting) Muslims like the Mujrimoon (criminals, polytheists and disbelievers, etc.)?
What is the matter with you? How judge you?
Or have you a Book through which you learn.
That you shall have all that you choose?
Or you have oaths from Us, reaching to the Day of Resurrection that yours will be what you judge.
Ask them, which of them will stand surety for that!
Or have they "partners"? Then let them bring their "partners" if they are truthful!
(Remember) the Day when the Shin shall be laid bare (i.e. the Day of Resurrection) and they shall be called to prostrate (to Allah), but they (hypocrites) shall not be able to do so,
Their eyes will be cast down, ignominy will cover them; they used to be called to prostrate (offer prayers), while they were healthy and good (in the life of the world, but they did not).
Then leave Me Alone with such as belie this Quran. We shall punish them gradually from directions they perceive not.
And I will grant them a respite. Verily, My Plan is strong.
Or is it that you (O Muhammad SAW) ask them a wage, so that they are heavily burdened with debt?
Or that the Ghaib (unseen here in this Verse it means Al-Lauh Al-Mahfooz) is in their hands, so that they can write it down?
So wait with patience for the Decision of your Lord, and be not like the Companion of the Fish (jonah(p)), when he cried out (to Us) while he was in deep sorrow. (See the Quran, Verse 21:87).
Had not a Grace from his Lord reached him, he would indeed have been (left in the stomach of the fish, but We forgave him), so he was cast off on the naked shore, while he was to be blamed.
But his Lord chose him and made him of the righteous.
And verily, those who disbelieve would almost make you slip with their eyes through hatredness when they hear the Reminder (the Quran), and they say: "Verily, he (Muhammad SAW) is a madman!"
But it is nothing else than a Reminder to all the Alameen (mankind, jinns and all that exists).

The best of the believers are given inner peace in the world.
16:97 Whoever works righteousness, whether male or female, while he (or she) is a true believer (of Islamic Monotheism) verily, to him We will give a good life (in this world with respect, contentment and lawful provision), and We shall pay them certainly a reward in proportion to the best of what they used to do (i.e. Paradise in the hereafter).

But true peace is in the hereafter.
10:25 Allah calls to the home of peace (i.e. Paradise, by accepting Allahs religion of Islamic Monotheism and by doing righteous good deeds and abstaining from polytheism and evil deeds) and guides whom he wills to a Straight Path.

28:80 But those who had been granted (true) knowledge said: "Alas for you! The reward of Allah (in the hereafter) is best for those who believe and work righteousness: but this none shall attain, save those who steadfastly persevere (in good)."

29:64 And this life of the world is only amusement and play! Verily, the home of the Hereafter, that is the life indeed (i.e. the eternal life that will never end), if they but knew

Of course. Why would Islam be interested in the Israelite Covenants.

Hebrew 9:20 saying, `This [is] the blood of the covenant that God enjoined unto you,' 21 and both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the service with blood in like manner he did sprinkle, 22 and with blood almost all things are purified according to the law, and apart from blood-shedding forgiveness doth not come.

Jews have broken their covenant to believe in & support the messengers(p). & Israel killed thousands of prophets unjustly. Even before that still, in islam we believe, all mankind made a covenant with god before we were made in the womb. Your jibe at islam is really very strange. & all the references to blood in your religion is very disturbing to non-christians. Almost pagan, I’m sorry to say.

Well, the theological differences between Islam and Christianity make chronology less important for Islam. In Islam, there is no "plan of salvation" including an array of chronological events. In Islam, salvation has always been simple: Do as God commands, and you will be saved. Neither is there any "old covenant" replaced by a "new covenant", so chronology is a non-issue for the Quran

Good point. I also find that contemporary authors have discovered that a book (other than a novel) need not be arranged chronologically. That one can have multiple access points. & take something from it every time. Not having to start at the first page & end at the last. Contemporary movies pick up on this concept too – the amnesia movie ‘memento’ comes to mind. Also contemporary architecture is exploring this too – buildings with multiple entrances & spaces so one has a unique experience at every visit & point of entry. The quran can be accessed at any point, & a lesson can be heeded if it is read with understanding & reflection. it is a miracle & we will continue to discover its gems until the day of judgment.
41:53 We shall show them Our portents on the horizons and within themselves until it will be manifest unto them that it is the Truth. Doth not thy Lord suffice, since He is Witness over all things?

I think it strange that Muhammed wanted to kill himself after his enounter with whatever he encountered that night.

God bring speace, not anguish and depression.

Can you explain why Muhammed recieved verses in such anguish and misery and pain?

Where do u get those ideas? Simply, he was very shaken. How could he not be? & There was never any doubt that he was visited by an angel. As for receiving revelation it was always very intense, often sweating as it took place. I don’t know where u got the anguish & depression bit from. he was sorrowful knowing the punishment for the disbelief of disbelievers, not for revelation itself.

-peace.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Of course. Why would Islam be interested in the Israelite Covenants.

Hebrew 9:20 saying, `This [is] the blood of the covenant that God enjoined unto you,' 21 and both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the service with blood in like manner he did sprinkle, 22 and with blood almost all things are purified according to the law, and apart from blood-shedding forgiveness doth not come.

Jews have broken their covenant to believe in & support the messengers(p). & Israel killed thousands of prophets unjustly. Even before that still, in islam we believe, all mankind made a covenant with god before we were made in the womb. Your jibe at islam is really very strange. & all the references to blood in your religion is very disturbing to non-christians. Almost pagan, I’m sorry to say.

Perhaps I should read Leviticus to you sometime. You are in essence calling the Hebrews "pagan".

Levi 1:5 and he hath slaughtered the son of the herd before Jehovah; and sons of Aaron, the priests, have brought the blood near, and sprinkled the blood on the altar round about, which [is] at the opening of the tent of meeting. 6 `And he hath stripped the burnt-offering, and hath cut it into its pieces; 7 and the sons of Aaron the priest have put fire on the altar, and arranged wood on the fire; 8 and sons of Aaron, the priests, have arranged the pieces, with the head and the fat, on the wood, which [is] on the fire, which [is] on the altar; 9 and its inwards and its legs he doth wash with water; and the priest hath made perfume with the whole on the altar, a burnt-offering, a fire-offering of sweet fragrance to Jehovah.

 

[Ronnee743]

Well, the theological differences between Islam and Christianity make chronology less important for Islam. In Islam, there is no "plan of salvation" including an array of chronological events. In Islam, salvation has always been simple: Do as God commands, and you will be saved. Neither is there any "old covenant" replaced by a "new covenant", so chronology is a non-issue for the Quran.

What is wrong with that notion is that in truth,
no man is capable of doing right because it is in man's nature to sin. As Paul said, that he wanted to do right, yet he found within him a law
which did wrong, and that applies to all humans, so you cannot make me ever believe that you
do not need Christ to help you live a holy life.
Do as God commands and you will be saved is absurd, since no man is able to do good, and does evil continually as God said.....only God is good. Chronology simply nmeans order and God is a God of order. Do you see the universe out of order?

Well, honestly, can one expect less from an encounter with the Lord of the Universe? Obviously I don't have any first-hand experience, but I can imagine it to be something wholly different to anything the human mind can imagine. Of course he was terrified the first time, but it's not like he constantly suffered from his receiving of revelations.

Can one expect less? One cannot expect to desire to committ suicide after meeting
the Lord of life. God is peace, not confusion. God is love, not fear. Muhammed committed mass murders after his encounter with whatever terrified him almost to death. No person would ever want to meet a god
who scard him half to death. Jesus said to his disciples..."Fear not. It is I." God does not do what Muhammed reported. He crawled on his hands and knees to Khadija terrified and wanting to die after this spirit almost squeezed him to death. God is too kind to do that to anyone. Muhammed had it right, but Khadija told him it was God. This is all Khadija's fault, you know?

 

[peaceinislam]

Originally Posted by: yaqovzadeek
genealogy ? which one there seem to be two and they are conflicting.

They do not conflict. You just don't understand them.

the first point of conflict is that jesus(p) has no geneology - he was created in the womb. secondly for 'the son of god' it is strange that god is never mensioned in either geneology. 3rd, why are the geneologies completely different? it doesnt say 1 is from mary & the other is from joseph. 2 completely different geneologies for the same person(p)?

Jews have broken their covenant to believe in & support the messengers(p). & Israel killed thousands of prophets unjustly. Even before that still, in islam we believe, all mankind made a covenant with god before we were made in the womb. Your jibe at islam is really very strange. & all the references to blood in your religion is very disturbing to non-christians. Almost pagan, I’m sorry to say.

Perhaps I should read Leviticus to you sometime. You are in essence calling the Hebrews "pagan".

all of what i said is true. neither jews, nor christians, nor muslims would despute it. jews dont 'drink blood' & 'eat flesh' as an instuction in their religion, like paul says that jesus(p) instructed, while nowhere in the gospels does he give this instruction as an element of faith.

What is wrong with that notion is that in truth,
no man is capable of doing right because it is in man's nature to sin. As Paul said, that he wanted to do right, yet he found within him a law
which did wrong, and that applies to all humans, so you cannot make me ever believe that you
do not need Christ to help you live a holy life.
Do as God commands and you will be saved is absurd, since no man is able to do good, and does evil continually as God said.....only God is good. Chronology simply nmeans order and God is a God of order. Do you see the universe out of order?

this is so dramatic. okay thats your belief. where we differ is that human beings are to us created pure, not in sin to be redeemed.
2) we have the capacity for good & evil.

 

[peaceinislam]

Perhaps I should read Leviticus to you sometime. You are in essence calling the Hebrews "pagan".

Levi 1:5 and he hath slaughtered the son of the herd before Jehovah; and sons of Aaron, the priests, have brought the blood near, and sprinkled the blood on the altar round about, which [is] at the opening of the tent of meeting. 6 `And he hath stripped the burnt-offering, and hath cut it into its pieces; 7 and the sons of Aaron the priest have put fire on the altar, and arranged wood on the fire; 8 and sons of Aaron, the priests, have arranged the pieces, with the head and the fat, on the wood, which [is] on the fire, which [is] on the altar; 9 and its inwards and its legs he doth wash with water; and the priest hath made perfume with the whole on the altar, a burnt-offering, a fire-offering of sweet fragrance to Jehovah.

i was aware of that reference. its beside the point. like i said before:
all of what i said is true. neither jews, nor christians, nor muslims would despute it. jews dont 'drink blood' & 'eat flesh' as an instuction in their religion, like paul says that jesus(p) instructed, while nowhere in the gospels does he give this instruction as an element of faith.

 

[Ronnee743]

the first point of conflict is that jesus(p) has no geneology - he was created in the womb. secondly for 'the son of god' it is strange that god is never mensioned in either geneology. 3rd, why are the geneologies completely different? it doesnt say 1 is from mary & the other is from joseph. 2 completely different geneologies for the same person(p)?

The genealogy is correct. If you understood it.

all of what i said is true. neither jews, nor christians, nor muslims would despute it. jews dont 'drink blood' & 'eat flesh' as an instuction in their religion, like paul says that jesus(p) instructed, while nowhere in the gospels does he give this instruction as an element of faith.

Please explain what
you are talking about here. Jesus'
flesh is his Word, the Blood is his Spirit.
We need both to have life in us.

[

FONT=Comic Sans MS]
this is so dramatic. okay thats your belief. where we differ is that human beings are to us created pure, not in sin to be redeemed.

Have you ever heard a two year
old scream and get angry until
he gets his way? A one year old will hit you on the head with his toy or
whatever if you make him mad.
Man's nature is not pure. You need
to look around you at what is really in the nature of human beings.The Old
Testament says we sin as soon as come out of the womb.
2) we have the capacity for good & evil. [/FONT]

No way is man born pure,
but we do wrong immediately,
as soon as the opportunity arises..
We do not have a capacity
for good and evil, we are sinners
by nature.

 

[Ronnee743]

1) when did jesus embrace u? why didnt he do so earlier? why hasnt he embraced others? why did he did say he was sent only to israel?

His love will embrace anyone who comes to him in repentance. He was sent to Israel, but Israel rejected him because he was not what they expected, so God turned to the Gentiles.

[C

OLOR=black]2) this is the answer to question 1. [/COLOR]
42:13 He (Allah) has ordained for you the same religion (Islam) which he ordained for Nooh (Noah), and that which We have inspired in you (O Muhammad SAW), and that which We ordained for Ibraheem (Abraham), Moosa (Moses) Iesa (Jesus) saying you should establish religion (i.e. to do what it orders you to do practically), and make no divisions in it (religion) (i.e. various sects in religion). Intolerable for the unbelievers , is that to which you (O Muhammad SAW) call them. Allah chooses for Himself whom he wills, and guides unto Himself who turns to Him in repentance and in obedience.

35:8 Is he, then, to whom the evil of his deeds made fairseeming, so that he considers it as good (equal to one who is rightly guided)? Verily, Allah sends astray whom he wills, and guides whom he wills. So destroy not yourself (O Muhammad SAW) in sorrow for them. Truly, Allah is the AllKnower of what they do!

Life is a spiritual struggle. to love of god. & knowledge & worship of Him:
70:19-35 Lo! man was created anxious,
Fretful when evil befalleth him
And, when good befalleth him, grudging;
Save worshippers.
Who are constant at their worship
And in whose wealth there is a right acknowledged for the beggar and the destitute;
And those who believe in the Day of Judgment,
And those who are fearful of their Lord's doom
And those who preserve their chastity
And those who keep their pledges and their covenant,
And those who stand by their testimony
And those who are attentive at their worship.
These will dwell in Gardens, honoured.

I can also tell from your question that u believe u have gods favor now & in the hereafter will have more favor & peace? Maybe u should heed the lesson of prophet jonah(p)! Look at what happened to him(p). (& He was far, far, far greater than all of us):
68:39-52
Shall We then treat the (submitting) Muslims like the Mujrimoon (criminals, polytheists and disbelievers, etc.)?
What is the matter with you? How judge you?
Or have you a Book through which you learn.
That you shall have all that you choose?
Or you have oaths from Us, reaching to the Day of Resurrection that yours will be what you judge.
Ask them, which of them will stand surety for that!
Or have they "partners"? Then let them bring their "partners" if they are truthful!
(Remember) the Day when the Shin shall be laid bare (i.e. the Day of Resurrection) and they shall be called to prostrate (to Allah), but they (hypocrites) shall not be able to do so,
Their eyes will be cast down, ignominy will cover them; they used to be called to prostrate (offer prayers), while they were healthy and good (in the life of the world, but they did not).
Then leave Me Alone with such as belie this Quran. We shall punish them gradually from directions they perceive not.
And I will grant them a respite. Verily, My Plan is strong.
Or is it that you (O Muhammad SAW) ask them a wage, so that they are heavily burdened with debt?
Or that the Ghaib (unseen here in this Verse it means Al-Lauh Al-Mahfooz) is in their hands, so that they can write it down?
So wait with patience for the Decision of your Lord, and be not like the Companion of the Fish (jonah(p)), when he cried out (to Us) while he was in deep sorrow. (See the Quran, Verse 21:87).
Had not a Grace from his Lord reached him, he would indeed have been (left in the stomach of the fish, but We forgave him), so he was cast off on the naked shore, while he was to be blamed.
But his Lord chose him and made him of the righteous.
And verily, those who disbelieve would almost make you slip with their eyes through hatredness when they hear the Reminder (the Quran), and they say: "Verily, he (Muhammad SAW) is a madman!"
But it is nothing else than a Reminder to all the Alameen (mankind, jinns and all that exists).

The best of the believers are given inner peace in the world.
16:97 Whoever works righteousness, whether male or female, while he (or she) is a true believer (of Islamic Monotheism) verily, to him We will give a good life (in this world with respect, contentment and lawful provision), and We shall pay them certainly a reward in proportion to the best of what they used to do (i.e. Paradise in the hereafter).

But true peace is in the hereafter.
10:25 Allah calls to the home of peace (i.e. Paradise, by accepting Allahs religion of Islamic Monotheism and by doing righteous good deeds and abstaining from polytheism and evil deeds) and guides whom he wills to a Straight Path.

28:80 But those who had been granted (true) knowledge said: "Alas for you! The reward of Allah (in the hereafter) is best for those who believe and work righteousness: but this none shall attain, save those who steadfastly persevere (in good)."

29:64 And this life of the world is only amusement and play! Verily, the home of the Hereafter, that is the life indeed (i.e. the eternal life that will never end), if they but knew


Jews have broken their covenant to believe in & support the messengers(p). & Israel killed thousands of prophets unjustly. Even before that still, in islam we believe, all mankind made a covenant with god before we were made in the womb. Your jibe at islam is really very strange. & all the references to blood in your religion is very disturbing to non-christians. Almost pagan, I’m sorry to say.



Good point. I also find that contemporary authors have discovered that a book (other than a novel) need not be arranged chronologically. That one can have multiple access points. & take something from it every time. Not having to start at the first page & end at the last. Contemporary movies pick up on this concept too – the amnesia movie ‘memento’ comes to mind. Also contemporary architecture is exploring this too – buildings with multiple entrances & spaces so one has a unique experience at every visit & point of entry. The quran can be accessed at any point, & a lesson can be heeded if it is read with understanding & reflection. it is a miracle & we will continue to discover its gems until the day of judgment.
41:53 We shall show them Our portents on the horizons and within themselves until it will be manifest unto them that it is the Truth. Doth not thy Lord suffice, since He is Witness over all things?

Where do u get those ideas? Simply, he was very shaken. How could he not be? & There was never any doubt that he was visited by an angel. As for receiving revelation it was always very intense, often sweating as it took place. I don’t know where u got the anguish & depression bit from. he was sorrowful knowing the punishment for the disbelief of disbelievers, not for revelation itself.

-peace.

I read about Muhammed in books, of course. Read A History of God about his fear. There is plenty doubt that he was visited by an angel, especially Gabriel. Gabriel would never tell Muhammed what Muhammed claims he told him.

 

[dawiyd]

I read about Muhammed in books, of course. Read A History of God about his fear. There is plenty doubt that he was visited by an angel, especially Gabriel. Gabriel would never tell Muhammed what Muhammed claims he told him.

Right you speak for the Angel Gabriel now?

 

[Clark_98C]

What old holy book is written in chronological order?

 

[peaceinislam]

No way is man born pure,
but we do wrong immediately,
as soon as the opportunity arises..
We do not have a capacity
for good and evil, we are sinners
by nature.

we have nature to do good & evil. but they can become blurred. by gods grace they are distinguished clearly. a new born baby is born in filthy sin to u? what wrong has this baby done? at what point did it do this wrong? in islam we believe that if an child dies, he/she goes to paradise, no questions asked. it is just a child, a pure human being, with no blame. why are u so obsessed with tragedy? it also permeates western literature. why the obsession?

this is from a chrsitian website
http://www.bible.ca/interactive/salvation-20-infants-are-saved.htm:

Infants Are Not Lost

[SIZE=+1]We now turn our attention to another perversion of God’s word and that is infants are born sinners and must be baptized in order to be saved. This contradicts God’s word. In Ezekiel 18:20 we read, "The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor shall the father bear the guilt of the son." Here God is telling us that children do not inherit sin from their parents, grandparents, or any of their forefathers, all the way back to Adam. It says "The son shall not bear the guilt of the Father." Each person is responsible for his own sins. According to this verse, it is "The soul who sins shall die."" Does it say that the soul that inherits sin, it shall die? No. It says the soul who sins.
What is sin? I John 3:4 says, "Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness: and sin is lawlessness." We do not inherit sin; we commit sin; and we commit sin when we commit lawlessness. An infant has not broken any law of God and thus has not committed any sin.
An infant is completely innocent. Just as God says in Ezekiel 28:15, "You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you." So we see that an infant is born perfect and without sin until he becomes of an accountable age and then begins to sin.
James 4:17 says, "Therefore to him who knows to do good, and does not do it, to him it is sin." This is the sin of omission. An infant does not know to do good and thus cannot sin. There are only two ways that man sins: by committing sin or we sin by omission. An infant cannot sin in either way and has no sin.
A little child is innocent and pure, as our Lord says in Matthew 18:3, "Unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven." Little children are not lost, but are safe until they become accountable.
One error leads to another. Men say that since infants have inherited the sin of Adam, that they must be baptized or they will be lost. This is also false. Infants are not suitable candidates for baptism, since they cannot believe. Our Lord says in Mark 16:16, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved." Here one of the prerequisites of being saved is to believe, which is impossible for an infant to do.
Also in Acts 8:36-37 the question was asked, "See here is water; what hinders me from being baptized?" And the answer is given in the next verse: "And Philip said, if you believe with all your heart you may." Here we see the condition that must be met before a person can be baptized is that he must believe with all his heart. Can an infant do this? No.
In Acts 2:38 (KJV) the apostle Peter told a group of people, who had asked what they should do, to "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins." What is the requirement found here that we must do before we can be baptized? Repent. Can an infant repent? It would be absurd to think that an infant could believe or repent, but it is just as absurd to think that an innocent infant, who is without sin, must be baptized for the forgiveness of sins, which he does not have.
Satan has many ways in fooling people into being lost. The lie that Satan tells here to people who have become accountable is that since you were baptized as an infant, you do not need to be baptized for the remission of your sins now that you have become accountable and responsible. Satan knows that infant baptism accomplishes nothing. He also knows, that when people who were baptized as an infant become accountable, that at that time they are lost. So who do you want to follow: God, or men who are being led by Satan? Every person will follow one or the other. Again we have to make the choice as to who we follow.
[/SIZE]

 

[Ronnee743]

Right you speak for the Angel Gabriel now?

I go by what Gabriel told Daniel in the Old
Testament and Mary in the
New Testament. The spirit
Muhammed saw is not the Gabriel of the Bible.
Study the Biblical Gabriel and it is
not the spirit Muhammed saw.

 

[Ronnee743]

we have nature to do good & evil. but they can become blurred. by gods grace they are distinguished clearly. a new born baby is born in filthy sin to u? what wrong has this baby done? at what point did it do this wrong? in islam we believe that if an child dies, he/she goes to paradise, no questions asked. it is just a child, a pure human being, with no blame. why are u so obsessed with tragedy? it also permeates western literature. why the obsession?

this is from a chrsitian website
http://www.bible.ca/interactive/salvation-20-infants-are-saved.htm:

Infants Are Not Lost

[SIZE=+1]We now turn our attention to another perversion of God’s word and that is infants are born sinners and must be baptized in order to be saved. This contradicts God’s word. In Ezekiel 18:20 we read, "The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor shall the father bear the guilt of the son." Here God is telling us that children do not inherit sin from their parents, grandparents, or any of their forefathers, all the way back to Adam. It says "The son shall not bear the guilt of the Father." Each person is responsible for his own sins. According to this verse, it is "The soul who sins shall die."" Does it say that the soul that inherits sin, it shall die? No. It says the soul who sins.
What is sin? I John 3:4 says, "Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness: and sin is lawlessness." We do not inherit sin; we commit sin; and we commit sin when we commit lawlessness. An infant has not broken any law of God and thus has not committed any sin.
An infant is completely innocent. Just as God says in Ezekiel 28:15, "You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you." So we see that an infant is born perfect and without sin until he becomes of an accountable age and then begins to sin.
James 4:17 says, "Therefore to him who knows to do good, and does not do it, to him it is sin." This is the sin of omission. An infant does not know to do good and thus cannot sin. There are only two ways that man sins: by committing sin or we sin by omission. An infant cannot sin in either way and has no sin.
A little child is innocent and pure, as our Lord says in Matthew 18:3, "Unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven." Little children are not lost, but are safe until they become accountable.
One error leads to another. Men say that since infants have inherited the sin of Adam, that they must be baptized or they will be lost. This is also false. Infants are not suitable candidates for baptism, since they cannot believe. Our Lord says in Mark 16:16, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved." Here one of the prerequisites of being saved is to believe, which is impossible for an infant to do.
Also in Acts 8:36-37 the question was asked, "See here is water; what hinders me from being baptized?" And the answer is given in the next verse: "And Philip said, if you believe with all your heart you may." Here we see the condition that must be met before a person can be baptized is that he must believe with all his heart. Can an infant do this? No.
In Acts 2:38 (KJV) the apostle Peter told a group of people, who had asked what they should do, to "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins." What is the requirement found here that we must do before we can be baptized? Repent. Can an infant repent? It would be absurd to think that an infant could believe or repent, but it is just as absurd to think that an innocent infant, who is without sin, must be baptized for the forgiveness of sins, which he does not have.
Satan has many ways in fooling people into being lost. The lie that Satan tells here to people who have become accountable is that since you were baptized as an infant, you do not need to be baptized for the remission of your sins now that you have become accountable and responsible. Satan knows that infant baptism accomplishes nothing. He also knows, that when people who were baptized as an infant become accountable, that at that time they are lost. So who do you want to follow: God, or men who are being led by Satan? Every person will follow one or the other. Again we have to make the choice as to who we follow.
[/SIZE]

I just recieved a long distance call, so I will come back later to address this.

 

[warghaha]

I see a difference here. You say that you embraced Islam, yet in Christianity it was Jesus who embraced me.
I never thought of that until I read what you said.

And you never embraced him back?
In Islam, it's mutual. I think it just the same in Christianity, right?

But, do you have peace about when you die?

If I understand you coreectly, you mean you've got the assurance when you received your salvation but in Islam, I don't have the assurance, right?

From the Bible itself, there's no assurance unless you do good deeds and have faith. It just the same in Islam. Let me quote some verses in the Bible about works:

Matthew 7
21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?'
23 Then I will declare to them solemnly, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.'

Is there an assurance that all who believe in the blood of Jesus Christ will enter the Kingdom of God?

Let see from (John 5: 28-29)

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Who will be resurresten in life if not who have done good? Just like Islam. Good deeds and faith.

Another verse from (Matthew 16: 27)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works

Again, just like Islam.
Another verse from (Act 10: 34-35)
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Again, just like Islam. So, may I ask you just the same question you'd asked me? "do you have peace about when you die?"

Anyway, as inperfect person, I'll do my best to uphold Islam in me. God will judge me in afterlife and He's the Most-Just.

 

[Ronnee743]

[

QUOTE=warghaha]And you never embraced him back?
In Islam, it's mutual. I think it just the same in Christianity, right?

I hug him with my life. Living for God is obeying his word.

If I understand you correctly, you mean you've got the assurance when you received your salvation but in Islam, I don't have the assurance, right?

That is what I believe, yes.

From the Bible itself, there's no assurance unless you do good deeds and have faith. It just the same in Islam. Let me quote some verses in the Bible about works

:

Yes, I am saved now. (1 Peter 1.9 ) says Recieving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matthew 7
21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?'

23 Then I will declare to them solemnly, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.'

This is for those who simply profess to know and love the Lord, but in works deny him...meaning not loving others.

Is there an assurance that all who believe in the blood of Jesus Christ will enter the Kingdom of God?

The Bible teaches that once we recieve Jesus, if we don't obey him, we will be lost. We must be faithful.

Let see from (John 5: 28-29)

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Who will be resurresten in life if not who have done good? Just like Islam. Good deeds and faith.

But Islam did not originate this, it was first found in the Bible. Without Christ in you, it does not apply for you.

Another verse from (Matthew 16: 27)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works

Jesus is again talking of those who serve him and those who don't. One must be born again even as Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3. You cannot serve the Lord without Christ in you. Jesus made this clear.

Again, just like Islam.

Christianity is nothing like Islam, Christianity requires a repentance of sins, a turning to Jesus in faith and sorrow for sins, to recieve Jesus as Lord and Saviour. Jesus said that if you try to climb up another way, except through him, you are a robber and a thief.
Another verse from (Act 10: 34-35)
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

You're way off here also. Peter was talking about the Roman centurion Cornelius the first Gentile convert,who did alms and prayed to God. God sent Peter to him, however Cornelius had to repent and recieve Jesus into his heart and life. Go read the story.

Again, just like Islam. So, may I ask you just the same question you'd asked me? "do you have peace about when you die?"


Every Scripture you posted was taken out of context. Yes, I have perfect peace to die because I know that Jesus is in me and he said because he lives, I shall live also because he is in me.
Anyway, as inperfect person, I'll do my best to uphold Islam in me. God will judge me in afterlife and He's the Most-Just.

Yes, he will judge you and this is how;

Acts 17.31 Because he has appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man, whon he has ordained, whereof he has given assurance unto all men, in that he raised him from the dead.

Nothing you posted is Biblically correct. You are wrong and I tell you the truth for I would not lie using God's word. God is going to judge you by that man and that man is Jesus Christ.

 

[Ronnee743]

we have nature to do good & evil. but they can become blurred. by gods grace they are distinguished clearly. a new born baby is born in filthy sin to u? what wrong has this baby done? at what point did it do this wrong? in islam we believe that if an child dies, he/she goes to paradise, no questions asked. it is just a child, a pure human being, with no blame. why are u so obsessed with tragedy? it also permeates western literature. why the obsession?

this is from a chrsitian website
http://www.bible.ca/interactive/salvation-20-infants-are-saved.htm:

Infants Are Not Lost

[SIZE=+1]We now turn our attention to another perversion of God’s word and that is infants are born sinners and must be baptized in order to be saved. This contradicts God’s word. In Ezekiel 18:20 we read, "The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor shall the father bear the guilt of the son." Here God is telling us that children do not inherit sin from their parents, grandparents, or any of their forefathers, all the way back to Adam. It says "The son shall not bear the guilt of the Father." Each person is responsible for his own sins. According to this verse, it is "The soul who sins shall die."" Does it say that the soul that inherits sin, it shall die? No. It says the soul who sins.
What is sin? I John 3:4 says, "Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness: and sin is lawlessness." We do not inherit sin; we commit sin; and we commit sin when we commit lawlessness. An infant has not broken any law of God and thus has not committed any sin.
An infant is completely innocent. Just as God says in Ezekiel 28:15, "You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you." So we see that an infant is born perfect and without sin until he becomes of an accountable age and then begins to sin.
James 4:17 says, "Therefore to him who knows to do good, and does not do it, to him it is sin." This is the sin of omission. An infant does not know to do good and thus cannot sin. There are only two ways that man sins: by committing sin or we sin by omission. An infant cannot sin in either way and has no sin.
A little child is innocent and pure, as our Lord says in Matthew 18:3, "Unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven." Little children are not lost, but are safe until they become accountable.
One error leads to another. Men say that since infants have inherited the sin of Adam, that they must be baptized or they will be lost. This is also false. Infants are not suitable candidates for baptism, since they cannot believe. Our Lord says in Mark 16:16, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved." Here one of the prerequisites of being saved is to believe, which is impossible for an infant to do.
Also in Acts 8:36-37 the question was asked, "See here is water; what hinders me from being baptized?" And the answer is given in the next verse: "And Philip said, if you believe with all your heart you may." Here we see the condition that must be met before a person can be baptized is that he must believe with all his heart. Can an infant do this? No.
In Acts 2:38 (KJV) the apostle Peter told a group of people, who had asked what they should do, to "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins." What is the requirement found here that we must do before we can be baptized? Repent. Can an infant repent? It would be absurd to think that an infant could believe or repent, but it is just as absurd to think that an innocent infant, who is without sin, must be baptized for the forgiveness of sins, which he does not have.
Satan has many ways in fooling people into being lost. The lie that Satan tells here to people who have become accountable is that since you were baptized as an infant, you do not need to be baptized for the remission of your sins now that you have become accountable and responsible. Satan knows that infant baptism accomplishes nothing. He also knows, that when people who were baptized as an infant become accountable, that at that time they are lost. So who do you want to follow: God, or men who are being led by Satan? Every person will follow one or the other. Again we have to make the choice as to who we follow.
[/SIZE]

This refers to the RCC who baptizes babies. And I do not agree with anything the RCC does. I hope you don't either.

 

[Ronnee743]

we have nature to do good & evil. but they can become PeaceinIslam said;
blurred. by gods grace they are distinguished clearly. a new born baby is born in filthy sin to u? what wrong has this baby done? at what point did it do this wrong? in islam we believe that if an child dies, he/she goes to paradise, no questions asked. it is just a child, a pure human being, with no blame. why are u so obsessed with tragedy? it also permeates western literature. why the obsession?


God said in (Hosea 3.6 )My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Here God said if we reject knowledge of him he will forget our kids. Don't tell me that innocent children do not suffer in this world, even though they are innocent.

 

[warghaha]

I hug him with my life. Living for God is obeying his word.

Great! Same with me

Yes, I am saved now. (1 Peter 1.9 ) says Recieving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Good! If it's within your context, then I'm saved by the merciness, forgiveness of Allah. i.e: God.

This is for those who simply profess to know and love the Lord, but in works deny him...meaning not loving others.

Thus, the same with Islam

The Bible teaches that once we recieve Jesus, if we don't obey him, we will be lost. We must be faithful

Great! Again. Same with Islam. The only difference is, we both believe in Jesus and Muhammad.

But Islam did not originate this, it was first found in the Bible. Without Christ in you, it does not apply for you.

It doesn't matter who state that first because it's from the same God. His messenger/prophet delivered the same message i.e: Works and faith are essential.

Regarding "whithout Christ in you", this is another issue and I have my reasons to believe what I'm belive now.

Jesus is again talking of those who serve him and those who don't. One must be born again even as Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3. You cannot serve the Lord without Christ in you. Jesus made this clear.

I'm addresing to underlined statement: Yep! It's the same in Islam. We serve God.

For the rest of the statement, it's a different issue like I'd stated in my above comment.

Christianity is nothing like Islam, Christianity requires a repentance of sins, a turning to Jesus in faith and sorrow for sins, to recieve Jesus as Lord and Saviour. Jesus said that if you try to climb up another way, except through him, you are a robber and a thief.

What I said as the same is actually about works and faith. It's the same in Islam. Works+Faith=Rewarded by God. Repentance is certainly essential in Islam too. The only different is, there's one and only God, no 3 in 1, in Islam.

You're way off here also. Peter was talking about the Roman centurion Cornelius the first Gentile convert,who did alms and prayed to God. God sent Peter to him, however Cornelius had to repent and recieve Jesus into his heart and life. Go read the story

If it can be applied to Cornelius, why can't it be apllied for the rest of us?

Every Scripture you posted was taken out of context. Yes, I have perfect peace to die because I know that Jesus is in me and he said because he lives, I shall live also because he is in me

Taken out of context because you take "Christ must be in you" for every verses that I'd posted. Actually, I'm talking, we can't be rewarded by the faith alone but faith+works. That's my context. We differ in context of only 'the faith'. Your faith is in the blood of Jesus. My faith is in One and Only God. So we have the same view on one way but differ in one way.

And yes, I have peace knowing that God is Most-Forgiving and Most-Merciful and Most-Just.

Yes, he will judge you and this is how;

Acts 17.31 Because he has appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man, whon he has ordained, whereof he has given assurance unto all men, in that he raised him from the dead.

Nothing you posted is Biblically correct. You are wrong and I tell you the truth for I would not lie using God's word. God is going to judge you by that man and that man is Jesus Christ.

So what role of the Father and Holy Ghost there? As a jury? But anyway, my judge should be the One and Only God, Allah, the Father.

P/S: It's hard to reply to your post when you making a reply within the quote

Salaam

 

[Ronnee743]

Warghaha said;
this is another issue and I have my reasons to believe what I'm believe now



Did you know that our reasons do not apply for God. God doesn't follow man's reasons, but everything he does is for his own glory.Only God knows what to do in any case, situation or life...not us.

You may think you are saved, but without Christ you are lost. Jesus offered up himself a sacrifice for sins and without pleading his blood and name to God, you have no reason to even go to God.


So what role of the Father and Holy Ghost there? As a jury? But anyway, my judge should be the One and Only God, Allah, the Father


Jesus is God.

 

[Ronnee743]

Warghaha said;
Taken out of context because you take "Christ must be in you" for every verses that I'd posted. Actually, I'm talking, we can't be rewarded by the faith alone but faith+works. That's my context. We differ in context of only 'the faith'. Your faith is in the blood of Jesus. My faith is in One and Only God. So we have the same view on one way but differ in one way.


Christ died for you, Warghaha, not Muhammed. It is Jesus who gave HIS life so you could live forever in heaven. The Bible says that without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins. Without the living Lord Jesus in you, you will die and forever be lost.