Why isn't the Qur'an in chronological order?

[peaceful soul]

1. How can one truly interpret any text if it is not preserved in its chronological order?
2. Can any Muslim tell me the logic of the Qur'an's order?
3. Aren't important connections to the rest of scripture lost if out of order?

There are other questions that I could ask, but I will leave it as is unless the need arises for more.

 

[Abdurrahim]

2. Order and sequence of Qur’an divinely inspired


The complete Qur’an was revealed over a period of 22½ years portion by portion, as and when it was required. The Qur’an was not compiled by the Prophet in the chronological order of revelation. The order and sequence of the Qur’an too was Divinely inspired and was instructed to the Prophet by Allah (swt) through archangel Jibraeel. Whenever a revelation was conveyed to his companions, the Prophet would also mention in which surah (chapter) and after which ayat (verse) this new revelation should fit.

Every Ramadhaan all the portions of the Qur’an that had been revealed, including the order of the verses, were revised and reconfirmed by the Prophet with archangel Jibraeel. During the last Ramadhaan, before the demise of the Prophet, the Qur’an was rechecked and reconfirmed twice.

It is therefore clearly evident that the Qur’an was compiled and authenticated by the Prophet himself during his lifetime, both in the written form as well as in the memory of several of his Companions.

I think first question is answered.

Can any Muslim tell me the logic of the Qur'an's order?

I dont think so.

Allah knows best.

Aren't important connections to the rest of scripture lost if out of order?

No, it is recorded both revelation and Quran order.

Quran order is the real ordering and revelation order is not that crucial I think.

Quran will be preserved that way forewer.

 

[Arthra]

The Qur'an is a series of revelations over twenty some years..


Sometimes there were historic circumstances that appear to have prompted the revelations themselves such as battles or events to take place in the future as in prophecy or circumstances in the early Muslim community itself.

It was never meant to be read from a story line like say a modern author today would compose. To me this is important to note that had a human being composed it there probably would likely have been a constitent storyline.

Some books in the Bible are also not purely chronologically arranged in themselves but are compiled revelations and likely arranged later.

Some scholars and researchers have been able to approximate that the Surihs inthe Qur'an were revealed at various times.

It appears to have been compiled through Caliph Uthman later according to the size of the Surih.

- Art

 

[Futuwwa]

peaceful soul, I really have to say, I have no idea. It's anyone's guess why Caliph Othman put them in that particular order. I doubt, though, that the order makes much of a difference.

 

[elijah115]

I don't think chronology is important. You've read the bible. You should be able to figure out the chronology for the Quran, having known what the bible contains. Haven't you watched films like 21 gramms before, which aren't chronological, yet possible to follow. Perhaps it would help you to read an intro on

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

that includes this page

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/qmtintro.html

to know what to expect or intros on other islamic sites.

 

[Ronnee743]

Arthra said;
Some books in the Bible are also not purely chronologically arranged in themselves but are compiled revelations and likely arranged later.


The Bible has the genealogy of Jesus Christ and this is important.
Because of this we know who Jesus is. God.
Did you know that Islam tries to elevate
Muhammed to the status as Jesus?
Yet, there is no genealogy of Muhammed.
No pedigree.
People have tried to discredit Jesus pedigree,
but it is legimitate, and without it, we would not know who Jesus is, where Jesus came from and how Jesus got her,.
I think order is necessary. How can it not be?

 

[Ronnee743]

Artra said........It was never meant to be read from a story line like say a modern author today would compose. To me this is important to note that had a human being composed it there probably would likely have been a constitent storyline.


The Bible was writtne by human beings in a normal fashion.
They were men who spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

I think it strange that Muhammed wanted to kill himself after his enounter with whatever he encountered that night.

God bring speace, not anguish and depression.

Can you explain why Muhammed recieved verses in such anguish and misery and pain?

 

[Ronnee743]

Arthra said.....The Qur'an is a series of revelations over twenty some years..


I am a serious student of the Bible and I know it pretty well, literally my life is devoted to studying it, so could you tell me exactly what revelations Muhammed recieved?

I really really want to know so I can see what the Bible says about it.

I am very serious.

 

[warghaha]

Ronee, Quran is not a history book but a guidance and reminder. It tells the history just for our reminder. When it want to relate something with the guidance, then it'll bring the example through history. No need to be put in chronological order.

Remember how Revelation is placed at the end of NT?

 

[Ronnee743]

Ronee, Quran is not a history book but a guidance and reminder. It tells the history just for our reminder. When it want to relate something with the guidance, then it'll bring the example through history. No need to be put in chronological order.

Remember how Revelation is placed at the end of NT?

Good answer.
Now could you give me an example.
Could you tell me how it has helped you?

 

[warghaha]

I thought you said you'd read the Quran cover to cover.

Anyway, in Quran, it often used "Did you remember when etc etc". Because, when the Quran wanted to tell about how people easily mislead, it tells example through the story of Golden Calf. So, when it want to tell about how arrogance can bring us down, it tells the example through Ibless story where he too arrogance to obey God's command. Of course the story of Ibless occured first. But it don't have to be put in chronological order for us to take them as an example or remider to us, right?

So it helped me to learn from the previous mistakes made by previous people.

 

[Ronnee743]

I did read it, but it did not help me.

Now I see how it helped you............so you learned from other's mistakes?

Now another question;
Give an example...of what you learned and how it changed you...if it did?

 

[warghaha]

I did read it, but it did not help me.

I could tell that.

Now I see how it helped you............so you learned from other's mistakes?

Lol. Don't act like you didn't get what I meant.

We did learn something from others. right? That's one of so many ways we can improve ourselves. Quran will tell the story of how previous people disobey God. And it also tells how previous people struggle to obey Him too. Why can't we learn from the stories? And of course, it just not histories in Quran we can learn from to take it as reminder.

Now another question;
Give an example...of what you learned and how it changed you...if it did?

One of them, of course the story of Ibless. I must admit, been a 'street kid' in my teenage life, I live my life as an arrogance person. I felt, I'm better than those 'weaklings'. Of course, I'll deny it if at that time, you come and tell me I'm arrogance. But now, I must admit it. But we're not a pure evil too. Sometimes, we helped those 'weaklings' too. But of course, with our own way.

Before I embrace Islam, I found this story is suited for me to take heed. And because of my arrogance too, my life was a messed up back then, just like Iblees.

 

[Osiris]

It is therefore clearly evident that the Qur’an was compiled and authenticated by the Prophet himself during his lifetime, both in the written form as well as in the memory of several of his Companions.

Sources?

I thought the written form of the Quran only came after Mohammad?

numerous versions of these revelations (of Quran) circulated after his (Mohammed) death in 632 CE, and that Uthman ordered the collection and ordering of this mass of material circa 650-656.

I dont think so.

Allah knows best.

What if the ordering has nothing to do with Allah?
A christian could well claim that the Bible is the way it is because God knows best.

No, it is recorded both revelation and Quran order.

Quran order is the real ordering and revelation order is not that crucial I think.

Quran will be preserved that way forewer.

Fair enough.

 

[Ronnee743]

I could tell that.

Lol. Don't act like you didn't get what I meant.

We did learn something from others. right? That's one of so many ways we can improve ourselves. Quran will tell the story of how previous people disobey God. And it also tells how previous people struggle to obey Him too. Why can't we learn from the stories? And of course, it just not histories in Quran we can learn from to take it as reminder.

Okay....

One of them, of course the story of Ibless. I must admit, been a 'street kid' in my teenage life, I live my life as an arrogance person. I felt, I'm better than those 'weaklings'. Of course, I'll deny it if at that time, you come and tell me I'm arrogance. But now, I must admit it. But we're not a pure evil too. Sometimes, we helped those 'weaklings' too. But of course, with our own way.

Sounds good.

Before I embrace Islam, I found this story is suited for me to take heed. And because of my arrogance too, my life was a messed up back then, just like Iblees.[/

I see a difference here. You say that you embraced Islam, yet in Christianity it was Jesus who embraced me.
I never thought of that until I read what you said.
But, do you have peace about when you die?

 

[yaqovzadeek]

The Bible has the genealogy of Jesus Christ and this is important.?

genealogy ? which one there seem to be two and they are conflicting.

Because of this we know who Jesus is. God.?

How do you know that where in the bible does Jesus say I am GOD.

Did you know that Islam tries to elevate
Muhammed to the status as Jesus?
Yet, there is no genealogy of Muhammed.
No pedigree..?

So what every religion would reveres its founder more than someone else.if we revered Jesus more than the prophet Mohamed (saws) than we should call ourselves christians then..There is no need for the Genealogy of Mohmed in the Quran since it is not his biography, it is the word of GOD. Do you want the genealogy of prophet Mohamed I will look in my discs and post for you.

People have tried to discredit Jesus pedigree,
but it is legimitate, and without it, we would not know who Jesus is, where Jesus came from and how Jesus got her,.
I think order is necessary. How can it not be?

That is the fault of the Bible cos it gives contradicting accounts of everything, 4 authors who were not even there, who are writing from hearsay.
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
Aka James the just

 

[yaqovzadeek]

1. How can one truly interpret any text if it is not preserved in its chronological order?.

1. The quran was not meant to be in chronological order, it is a conversation between GOD and man on how man should live his life in relation to GOD and to other man. it is not a biography. When we talk to each other do we start from the creation of the earth and finish with the day of judgement.

2.Can any Muslim tell me the logic of the Qur'an's order??.

Allah revealed his book in that way and he wanted it to be in that why should man change it just for his Logic.The Logic of the Chronolgy of the Quran is that it strats from the Beginning saying who is GOD amn needs to know that first and foremost.If not this is when man makes up his own GOD. In the Quran the first Chaopter makes it clear for once and for all with Just 7 verses

Surah Al-Fatihah

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]1. In the Name of Allâh, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]2. All the praises and thanks be to Allâh, the Lord of the 'Alamîn (mankind, jinns and all that exists).[/SIZE] [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]3. The Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]4. The Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection) [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]5. You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything). [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]6. Guide us to the Straight Way[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]7. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger , nor of those who went astray.[/SIZE][/FONT]

This is for muslim as the Lord's prayer is for Christians. God in this is making clear who he is. lord of the universe, the beneficent the merciful. He alone is the ownere of the day of judgement, that mean from the start he has made it clear he will judge and ain't no one gonna sit on his right hand and share no judgement with him. It also attests that a muslim that a muslim does not turn to any body but Allah for anything and a muslims 5 times a day everytime he prays or any otyher time in his life asks god for Guidance.
There is no need for chronology when the quran was revealed for guidance and not as story book.


​

3. Aren't important connections to the rest of scripture lost if out of order?

There are other questions that I could ask, but I will leave it as is unless the need arises for more.

I think the first part of this has been answered as i said the Quran is a direct conversation between GOD and man and when we talk we don't talk in chronology, for us to understand the Quran it is in this order for those who will guided to the right path Chronolgy and Logic is not what is needed.GODs logic and our logic is different, our logic is very limited only to what we know and what we see.GODs logic is incomprensible. As for the second one. Go ahead fire the other questions too.
peace
yaqovzadeek
Aka james the Just

 

[Futuwwa]

Artra said........It was never meant to be read from a story line like say a modern author today would compose. To me this is important to note that had a human being composed it there probably would likely have been a constitent storyline.

Well, the theological differences between Islam and Christianity make chronology less important for Islam. In Islam, there is no "plan of salvation" including an array of chronological events. In Islam, salvation has always been simple: Do as God commands, and you will be saved. Neither is there any "old covenant" replaced by a "new covenant", so chronology is a non-issue for the Quran.[/quote]

I think it strange that Muhammed wanted to kill himself after his enounter with whatever he encountered that night.

God bring speace, not anguish and depression.

Can you explain why Muhammed recieved verses in such anguish and misery and pain?

Well, honestly, can one expect less from an encounter with the Lord of the Universe? Obviously I don't have any first-hand experience, but I can imagine it to be something wholly different to anything the human mind can imagine. Of course he was terrified the first time, but it's not like he constantly suffered from his receiving of revelations.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Well, the theological differences between Islam and Christianity make chronology less important for Islam. In Islam, there is no "plan of salvation" including an array of chronological events. In Islam, salvation has always been simple: Do as God commands, and you will be saved. Neither is there any "old covenant" replaced by a "new covenant", so chronology is a non-issue for the Quran.

Of course. Why would Islam be interested in the Israelite Covenants.

Hebrew 9:20 saying, `This [is] the blood of the covenant that God enjoined unto you,' 21 and both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the service with blood in like manner he did sprinkle, 22 and with blood almost all things are purified according to the law, and apart from blood-shedding forgiveness doth not come.[SIZE=+2] [/SIZE]

 

[yaqovzadeek]

I did read it, but it did not help me.

The quran says: Chapter 2
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1. Alif-Lâm-Mîm. [These letters are one of the miracles of the Qur'ân and none but Allâh (Alone) knows their meanings]. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2. This is the Book (the Qur'ân), whereof there is no doubt, a guidance to those who are Al-Muttaqûn [the pious and righteous persons who fear Allâh much (abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which He has forbidden) and love Allâh much (perform all kinds of good deeds which He has ordained)]. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3. Who believe in the Ghaib and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and spend out of what we have provided for them [i.e. give Zakât , spend on themselves, their parents, their children, their wives, etc., and also give charity to the poor and also in Allâh's Cause - Jihâd, etc.]. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]4. And who believe in (the Qur'ân and the Sunnah) which has been sent down (revealed) to you (Muhammad Peace be upon him ) and in [the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel), etc.] which were sent down before you and they believe with certainty in the Hereafter. (Resurrection, recompense of their good and bad deeds, Paradise and Hell, etc.). [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]5. They are on (true) guidance from their Lord, and they are the successful. [/FONT]

Obviously you don't fit in the criteria, it says clearly it is a book of Guidance for thosde who choose to be guided to the right path.
Those who do not fit th Criteria will read it as if they are reading Shakespeare and it will have no effect on them.Others read it just to be able to pick holes in it afterwards and use it against Islam.This is one of the reasons it is not chronological.In the first Chapter Allah introduces himself and in the beginning of the second he alraedy introduces the book to the readers and what its purpose is for Guidance and who would be guided.
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
aka james the just