Why isnt isnt it ok to sin?

[lori milne]

If I'm a Christian and I'm saved why is sinning bad why shouldn't I sin or why can't I sin

 

[keith99]

Because the process of sinning harms you. Your God promises to eventually make you whole, he does not promise that process will be painless. Do enough damage to yourself and the process is sure to be very painful.

 

[lori milne]

Process ? I don't understand? So you mean I can sin but it just will turn out harder on me either way ? Can I enjoy sin and go to heaven ?

 

[Resha Caner]

It's a misunderstanding of grace. What you're advocating is called "cheap grace".

A common story used to explain the difference tells of a city council that celebrates the success of the city by paying for a city-wide festival from their own pocket. Everything is free: food, music, fireworks, carnival rides, etc.

So, a group of people gets into a food fight and destroys all the food. The city-council has them arrested for wanton destruction of property. The group argues they had the right because the food was free.

The judge responds, "It was free, but it wasn't cheap."

 

[appleofhiseye]

How can anyone claim to have been reborn and a Christ follower, yet still embrace sin?
Is not the first thing needed but repentance?

Repent(turn around and change your mind about sinning), and be saved.

If anyone continues in sin and encourages other to do likewise are not Christ followers but deceivers of even themselves.

 

[lori milne]

What if they are in church serving and for 20-30 years but are slaves to sin that they justify, with God will forgive my sin? And not feel bad or attempt to repent even ? Just willfully sin ! Smoke, drink profanity , adultery: lusting, secular music/ movies / tattooed. Is the Christian church today justifying sin so much that we all think it's ok to sin or is it truly ok? And God just forgives by grace :/-

 

[Paradoxum]

It's a misunderstanding of grace. What you're advocating is called "cheap grace".

A common story used to explain the difference tells of a city council that celebrates the success of the city by paying for a city-wide festival from their own pocket. Everything is free: food, music, fireworks, carnival rides, etc.

So, a group of people gets into a food fight and destroys all the food. The city-council has them arrested for wanton destruction of property. The group argues they had the right because the food was free.

The judge responds, "It was free, but it wasn't cheap."

What about the 'sins' which don't involve destroying, harming or violating anything? Nothing has to be paid for.

 

[Resha Caner]

What about the 'sins' which don't involve destroying, harming or violating anything? Nothing has to be paid for.

That's an oxymoron. By its very definition sin does those things.

 

[appleofhiseye]

What if they are in church serving and for 20-30 years but are slaves to sin that they justify, with God will forgive my sin? And not feel bad or attempt to repent even ? Just willfully sin ! Smoke, drink profanity , adultery: lusting, secular music/ movies / tattooed. Is the Christian church today justifying sin so much that we all think it's ok to sin or is it truly ok? And God just forgives by grace :/-

Then they are deceiving themselves, God will and promises to judge sinners, those that willfully sin and feel no guilt or need of confession or repentance.

Yes all have sinned, but only through the blood of Christ can we be made whole, If we confess our sin He(Christ) will forgive our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. We are unable on our own to do this. It is only through the work of God's Holy Spirit in us.
Are they willing to let God work on their sinful desires? Or do they love their sin more than God?

That is why Christians are told to run the race to win.

Being a Christ follower is not easy, but the reward is worth it.

 

[Paradoxum]

That's an oxymoron. By its very definition sin does those things.

So you agree that things like sex outside marriage aren't sins? No one else has to pay for that.

 

[Resha Caner]

So you agree that things like sex outside marriage aren't sins? No one else has to pay for that.

You can prove to me it does no harm?

 

[Paradoxum]

You can prove to me it does no harm?

It's irrelevant if it does harm, it their bodies.

If I buy something and break it, it doesn't matter. It only matters if I break someone else's property without consent.

 

[Resha Caner]

It's relevant if it does harm, it their bodies.

Did you mean irrelevant? Putting aside the fact that you avoided answering my question, and that your reply is very narrow and self-centered, I will note that is exactly the point.

It seems you've ceded it can do harm. And as I said, the very definition of sin is that it does harm. So what are we arguing? The fact that you don't like rules?

[edit] Ah, I see you edited your post. Aside from correcting "irrelevant", let's not jump from example to example. Let's stick with what you first mentioned.

 

[Paradoxum]

Did you mean irrelevant? Putting aside the fact that you avoided answering my question, and that your reply is very narrow and self-centered, I will note that is exactly the point.

What do you mean by narrow and self-centered? I don't see how my reply was any more self-centered (no more than is normal).

It seems you've ceded it can do harm. And as I said, the very definition of sin is that it does harm.

I don't think it does harm, but I don't think it matters. But if that's the definition of sin, then sin is fine. I'm not sure I've ever met a Christian who's against all consensual harm, and I doubt you do either, unless you're extremely puritanical.

So what are we arguing? The fact that you don't like rules?

That those aren't the rules. Harm is fine if it's consensual. What is the problem with harm, if it's consensual?

Do you think potentially harmful sports are wrong?

 

[Resha Caner]

What do you mean by narrow and self-centered? I don't see how my reply was any more self-centered (no more than is normal).

I'll answer that, but only in it's proper place, or this will become a mess of tangled discussion points.

I don't think it does harm, but I don't think it matters.

We need to address this first because it does matter. So, I'll ask you again: Can you prove it does no harm?

That those aren't the rules. Harm is fine if it's consensual. What is the problem with harm, if it's consensual?

Do you think potentially harmful sports are wrong?

Based on my assumptions of how you could mean "consenual" and "harmful" in those questions, my answer is yes. But again, I think this will go smoother if you answer the other question first.

 

[Paradoxum]

I'll answer that, but only in it's proper place, or this will become a mess of tangled discussion points.

But saying it in the first place was necessary.

We need to address this first because it does matter. So, I'll ask you again: Can you prove it does no harm?

No. I'm not a walking science journal. I also can't prove that school doesn't do harm.

Based on my assumptions of how you could mean "consenual" and "harmful" in those questions, my answer is yes. But again, I think this will go smoother if you answer the other question first.

You're saying that you think potentially harmful sports (most sports?) are wrong? Do you think that breaking your own property is wrong?

What is the problem with harm, if it's consensual?

 

[Resha Caner]

But saying it in the first place was necessary.

Indeed. I'm being unfair to you in the short term because I think you will understand my point better in the long term. I do promise to answer if you stick with me. If it's not worth it to you, you can always move on. I'll be the one who looks like a jerk.

No. I'm not a walking science journal. I also can't prove that school doesn't do harm.

Then why do you do it if you have no proof it is harmless?

FYI, I can't prove to you premarital sex is harmful ... or that school is a good idea. That's not the point. The point is that sin is, by definition, harmful. What you are saying is that you don't consider premarital sex a sin.

You're saying that you think potentially harmful sports (most sports?) are wrong? Do you think that breaking your own property is wrong?

What is the problem with harm, if it's consensual?

Patience. You're throwing out one scenario after another without even finishing the first. At least I answered your question about "harmful" sports.

 

[Paradoxum]

Indeed. I'm being unfair to you in the short term because I think you will understand my point better in the long term. I do promise to answer if you stick with me. If it's not worth it to you, you can always move on. I'll be the one who looks like a jerk.

Such suspense.

Then why do you do it if you have no proof it is harmless?

I don't think it's harmful (or significantly harmful). So the benefit outweighs the potential risk.

I smoke occasionally (rarely). I know that's potentially harmful, and I accept that.

FYI, I can't prove to you premarital sex is harmful ... or that school is a good idea. That's not the point. The point is that sin is, by definition, harmful. What you are saying is that you don't consider premarital sex a sin.

I don't see how this leads to your point.

Do you mean that all harmful things are sin, or that if they are sin they will be harmful?

If sin is by definition wrong, then I don't agree that consensual harm is wrong. You can do what you want with yourself, because you are the master of yourself.

Patience. You're throwing out one scenario after another without even finishing the first. At least I answered your question about "harmful" sports.

I was pretty much finished with the first.

Do you think that breaking your own property is wrong?

What is the problem with harm, if it's consensual?

(I don't have patience )

 

[stevenfrancis]

I don't think it does harm, but I don't think it matters. But if that's the definition of sin, then sin is fine. I'm not sure I've ever met a Christian who's against all consensual harm, and I doubt you do either, unless you're extremely puritanical.

This is a disturbing philosophy. It seems to be gaining prevalence as western civilization and culture continues to disintegrate. As disturbing as it is as a philosophy, it's even worse as theology. It's theologically unsound and unsupportable.

To live a life of sin is not freedom, if that's where you're going with this. Freedom is the ability to do what is right. Living a life of sin, and promoting such a way of life is slavery. It is a confusion and perversion of freedom into what is merely license. License is the ability to do whatever one pleases without civil interference. It is of no account regarding ones soul and eternity.

Some thoughts on sin by Jesus and His Apostles:

Matt 7:13* "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, * that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

John 8: 3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst 4 they said to him, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. 5 Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such. What do you say about her?" 6 This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her." 8 And once more he bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 9 But when they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the eldest, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10 Jesus looked up and said to her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" 11 She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you; go, and do not sin again."

John 5:13 Now the man who had been healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had withdrawn, as there was a crowd in the place. 14* Afterward, Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, "See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse befall you."

1 Corith 6:9* Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, * 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11* And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. 12* "All things are lawful for me," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be enslaved by anything. 13 "Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food"--and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power. 15* Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I therefore take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never! 16* Do you not know that he who joins himself to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, "The two shall become one." * 17* But he who is united to the Lord becomes one spirit with him. 18 Shun immorality. Every other sin which a man commits is outside the body; but the immoral man sins against his own body. 19* Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God? You are not your own; 20* you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

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Yes, Jesus took on the sin of the world. He took merciless beatings, humiliation, and a painful death for us, so that we may choose to be with Him in paradise for eternity. It is still a choice. We vote with our feet. How we live our lives. Where we go. What we do. Who we associate with. The priorities we set in our lives. Once we are baptized into the body of Christ, if we are choosing Him as our eternal reward, we are at a very minimum, keeping in mind that we are the body of Christ, and attempting to live our lives to that end. Are we perfect? No. We stumble and fall. But when that does it occur, (which is less and less the more reliant we become on Christ), we are immediately, and deeply repentant, and sorrowful for our actions, rather than justifying our actions as not being "harmful", or finding some way to dress them up as anything other than what they are.

One, (even after being "saved", may also choose an eternity far away from God. We are given this ability as well. If we choose sin over God. If we choose to mock and defile His gifts, and we die while in an immoral state without repentance or sorrow, then we are choosing to spend eternity without God. This is what hell is.

Yes, there is infinite mercy. Yes there is an infinite number of times we may be forgiven. But to obtain this, we must be in friendship with God, and therefore striving to live in imitation of Christ to the best of our ability, and not take our salvation for granted. To obtain mercy, we must first seek it. And why would we seek it, if we have fooled ourselves into believing that we haven't sinned? If you don't believe you're a sinner, then you're likely to lose the ability to be ashamed, and to seek forgiveness.

I am speaking to myself as much as anyone else. Perhaps even more so. So please don't take offense at my piping in here. These are just some ideas that I hope may be food for thought.

God's grace be with you always,

Steve

 

[Resha Caner]

Such suspense.

Do you want to place a bet on whether you'll make it to the end of this conversation?

I smoke occasionally (rarely). I know that's potentially harmful, and I accept that.

Jerry Seinfeld does a comedy routine about how his night-self makes decisions that his morning-self hates. It's not only funny, but very insightful. Given you've never had a tracheotomy, emphysema, lung cancer, etc. I'm not sure your decision is well-informed. Your future self is likely to regret some of what your current self is doing. But ... I know how little influence my views have with you.

I don't think it's harmful (or significantly harmful). So the benefit outweighs the potential risk.

The benefit to whom?

Do you think that breaking your own property is wrong?

It depends. Can I break open the radiator on my car anywhere I please?