Why Islam?

[Shay2005]

Thanks Shay for your post.
but I am asking Muslims why should I -as a christian- have to be a muslim or get killed or pay Jizya.
for you, I don't think there's in the new testment any *command* that tells christians to go killing jews or take jizya from them if they didn't become christians. that's first.
Second, you, as a jew, are waiting for the Messiah.
Christianty *claim* -regardless it's true or false- that Jesus is the Messiah. so there's something christianty will add to you if you beleieved in it.
what about Islam? What does it offer?
We, as christians, are not waiting for anyone but the Christ in His second-comming.
This is my question.

thanks , and my question is still ON.
waiting for a muslim to tell me why i should become a muslim or get killed.

nmII

You dont get it.

If I believed and followed Christianity Jesus is what will be added, right??? Thats what you just told me, right??

Islam can offer you Muhammad He was a good man from what I have learned about Him.

Is it true that if I dont become a Christian I will get killed and go straight to hell and burn for ever??? Your Bible doesnt command the "killing" it just commands we suffer when we die. Sounds just like how you say Islam religion tells people to kill people who are not Islamic, etc

Where in there Quran does it tell them to go out and kill Christians and Jews?? I have never read it in there book so can you please show me this?? Why you gotta pick on the Islam religion???

 

[Letalis]

Is it true that if I dont become a Christian I will get killed and go straight to hell and burn for ever??? Your Bible doesnt command the "killing" it just commands we suffer when we die. Sounds just like how you say Islam religion tells people to kill people who are not Islamic, etc

You're already drowning. Jesus is just the lifesaver...

 

[Shay2005]

You're already drowning. Jesus is just the lifesaver...

LOL....so are you. G-d is the lifesaver not a human that desperatly wanted to be G-d.

 

[Letalis]

LOL....so are you. G-d is the lifesaver not a human that desperatly wanted to be G-d.

And that thinking will lead to your demise.

 

[Shay2005]

And that thinking will lead to your demise.

Yes it will lead to your demise for not believing in G-d since you are worshipping foreign gods.

 

[Letalis]

Yes it will lead to your demise for not believing in G-d since you are worshipping foreign gods.

Please think about this for just one second. Your ETERNAL security lays in the hands of your decision. Are you really willing to risk everything for your own pride? I suggest you really think about this.

 

[Shay2005]

Please think about this for just one second. Your ETERNAL security lays in the hands of your decision. Are you really willing to risk everything for your own pride? I suggest you really think about this.

My pride?? So you want me to not believe and worship G-d but accept and worship Jesus?? Sorry but I prefer G-d Himself.

 

[Letalis]

My pride?? So you want me to not believe and worship G-d but accept and worship Jesus?? Sorry but I prefer G-d Himself.

No...

 

[IronEagle]

And that thinking will lead to your demise.

First, only God knows who goes to heaven or hell.

Second, how about not thinking will lead to anyone's demise.

Tom Harpur states: "As early as the 8th century, the Theologian St. John of Damascus frankly admitted what every modern critical scholar of the NT now realizes: that neither the Doctrine of the Trinity nor that of the 2 natures of Jesus Christ is explicitly set out in scripture. In fact, if you take the record as it is and avoid reading back into it the dogmatic definitions of a later age, you cannot find what is traditionally regarded as orthodox Christianity in the Bible at all."

The New Encyclopedia Britannica: "Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the schema in the Old Testament: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord' (Deut. 6:4 )"

The Encyclopedia Americana:, "Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicaea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching."

 

[IronEagle]

Hello,
I am a Christian worship one God who created heavens and earth.
I believe in God, His Books, His Prophets, Angles, Judgment day.
Why should I leave Christianity and go to Islam?
What does Islam Offer that is not in Christianity?

Thanks
nmII

It is a very subjective question, it differs from person to person.

 

[new_manII]

Hello IronEagle, thanks for your post and welcome to the topic

It is a very subjective question, it differs from person to person.

What Islam offeres should not differe from person to person. and I am asking about that.
for example, you can't tell me that Islam provides one wife per man for it's illigal to get married to more than one in US, and go to KSA and say Islam provides four women per man for it's ligal there!
again, What Islam offers should not be differnet from person to person.
and I am asking about what Islam offers.

Thanks
nmII

 

[IronEagle]

What Islam offeres should not differe from person to person.

It is not what Islam offers differ from person to person, people have different opinions.

 

[new_manII]

hello IE

It is not what Islam offers differ from person to person, people have different opinions.

Great, tell me what Islam offers that's not in christianity, and don't even bother with people's differen opinions.
Will you, please?
thanks
nmII

 

[sijo]

one of the problems I have with Christianity which eventually led to me leaving is that I do not see it as a 'fullfillment of the law' as Jesus (as) quite clearily says in scripture that he came to do;

Mntion was made of the fact that Judaic teaching covers the spiritual, state and government issues that come up within ones life. This is also true of Islam. It is, however, not true of the Christianity that has been taught (now or in the past). The teachings are of a spiritual nature only. State and Government issues must be taken care of in a separate manner.

First of all, it is not the problem of Christianity, but YOURS. Even after Jesus said clearly that He came not to nullify but TO COMPLETE the law, I don't understand the criteria of your assessment!

The second point makes Islam on the fence. If u study and analyse Torah, u could find out it covers the spiritual, state and governmental issues that all human beings are expected to encounter. That itself means, that NOTHING IS REQUIRED TO ADD OR MODIFY TO TORAH. Yahweh promised a Messiah to the Jews and to the world to redeem from their sins, but Jews misunderstood that it was a Messiah as a Warrior to free them from the clutches of Roman Government. But, PLEASE NOTE MY POINT BELOW:

Without the help of any Messiah, the Jews were relieved from Roman control, am I right?

Then who is the Messiah offered by Yahweh through Isaiah and other OT prophets? Would it mean that Yahweh cancelled the "promise of Messiah"? NO. Then who is the Messiah?

So the picture is clear. Jesus was that Messiah sent by Yahweh to complete millions of incomplete animal sacrifices for the atonement of sin.

If we add Torah to the great sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross, the picture is complete. Then why Islam?

We have discussed in other threads that the so-called prophecies about the coming of "prophet mohamed" were taken out of context and totally absurd. So, no prophecies, no proof, no evidence, etc. - how we could recognize Islam?

Even Islam is arguing that Torah and Bible are corrupted, they absolutely failed to prove it. And the quranic text is a proof that the Bible and Christians, Mohamed contacted were second-hand information and some cults like Maryanyas. And so, of course, the so-called revelation given by Gabriel contains human / local information! No archeological proof has been detected to state about a revelation of a "Book" called "Injeel" brought by Jesus. And the guesswork of islamic "scholars" (without any proof from quran) that the Injeel brought by Jesus wase taken back by Him when he ascended to heaven, is not a subject worth even to discuss!

Further, the evolution of quran is clearly explained in Sahih Bukhari Hadiths. If you read it, u could not anyway claim that Quran is the "UNCORRUPTED" Eternal word of God. What to say, the fourth calif Uthman was required to compile it after the death of Mohamed - almost 100 years after the revelation given by the so-called angel Gabriel!!! In the light of all these aspects, how we could trust Quran to a least extent?

So your claim is correct - Torah refers to the complete way of life. And Christians accepted it as the Old Covenant. And Jesus didn't perceive a religion. For instance, "whoever looks a women with lust committed adultery in the heart" - Jesus is not contemplating the legal part of Mosaic law prohibiting adultery; but THE ATTITUDES AND HEARTS where intentions and desires to break the God-given Torah arise! If u carefully analyse the teachings of Jesus, u could see that it is not for purifying society / government in the first instance. But to purify the attitudes and souls which would ultimately led into obeying the Torah whole-heartedly. Further,
Could u show me a word called "Christianity" in the Bible?
Could u show me a word called "Bible" in the Bible?
NO. It is clear that Jesus established his Church to preach the Good News of Salvation and not expected to get demeaned as A RELIGION among other religions. And the Bible speaks about TRUTH AND ETERNAL LIFE, and not a truth in ITSELF!

If you carefully analyze this factor, it is very clear. Religions are supposed to be local religions embedded with culture. Judaism carries the Jewish culture with it. Islam carries Arabian culture with it. Hinduism carries Indian culture and mythology with it; and so on.

What about Christianity? No any cultural ties. Born in East, brought up in West, now spread to all the hemispheres of the world - WITHOUT MUCH REFERENCE TO THE CULTURE IN THE PLACE OF BIRTH. That is the point. Because on application of Mosaic law ADDED with the salvation offerred by Lord Jesus on the cross to the mankind, a human being is totally eligible to have Eternal Life in the throne of the Holy Father, the God, the Almighty. Then why Islam?

Let me to believe that I have rectified your point of view. It is not the problem of Christianity but YOURS.

May the peace and joy of risen Christ be with you.

sijo

 

[sijo]

A Muslim will tell you that Islam offers a complete fullness of revelation that ammends, corrects, and warns all - thus surpassing the previous revelations in perfection. That is what a Muslim will tell you, and from a Muslim's perspective, this is the truth. And that answers your question. Whether or not you, personally, believe in the truth of that proposition is entirely up to you, so to speak.

But regardless, every sensible person in the world should tell people that the only real reason to convert to any religion FROM any religion is a deep abiding belief that the religion one is converting to expresses the truth about God and worshiping Him in a fuller and more compete way.

Thanx for your quote. U always perceive the facts in a different perspective... That's good!

You wrote that "Islam offers a complete fullness of revelation that ammends, corrects, and warns all - thus surpassing the previous revelations in perfection". Would u mind if I ask u a simple question?

Jews, from Moses till the Babylon exile, offered animal sacrifice in the Tabernacle for the atonement of sins (it has been proved by archeology and faith). For a deep understanding, take the words of Jesus: "The Scripture says, "It is kindness that I want, not animal sacrifices" - Mathew 12:7. This clearly stated that animal sacrifices were offered by Jews during the time of Christ. Am I right?

Christianity is flowing smoothly from Judaism, with reference to the prophecies of Isaiah and other prophets - YHWH would send his Son as Messiah (means "Saving"). Saving from what? It is clear that animal sacrifices would not weigh equal to the sins of mankind. So these two Abrahamic faiths believe in the atoning work of sins through "blood sacrifice".

But what about Islam? How Islam, usually referred to as "the final revelation" justify this shift from salvation by "substitutional blood sacrifice" to salvation by "good deeds"? Please remember that Quran didn't say anything about the Mosaic Code of animal sacrifice in the Tabernacle. And the "concept of substitutionary sacrifice" (whether for atonement or not) precedes back to Abraham. Abrahamic faiths believed in this aspect.

Now I would be grateful if you or anyone explain me, "without mentioning anything about Mosaic code of substitutionary blood sacrifice, on what context, Islam is shifting to salvation by good deeds"?

Note: It MUST BE an important point to be discussed to decide whether Yahweh of Jews and Christians; and Allah of Muslims are same!

“May you be blessed by the Lord, who made heaven and earth!” – Psalms 115:15

sijo

Allah's Apostle said, "Allah guarantees (the person who carries out Jihad in His Cause and nothing compelled him to go out but Jihad in His Cause and the belief in His Word) that He will either admit him into Paradise (Martyrdom) or return him with reward or booty he has earned to his residence from where he went out." – Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 93, Number 555.

 

[sijo]

But I think Islam religion is more spiritual than Christianity.

Really?

If I rectify, then u would look it as "proud" of a Christian. Please have a look to Bertrand Russell, in his prescient analysis of Bolshevism (Communism), “Theory and Practice of Bolshevism,” maintained: "Among religions, Bolshevism [Communism] is to be reckoned with Muhammadanism [Islam] rather than with Christianity and Buddhism. Christianity and Buddhism are primarily personal religions, with mystical doctrines and a love of contemplation. Muhammadanism and Bolshevism are practical, social, unspiritual, concerned to win the empire of this world."

I'm flabbergasted and perplexed - whom I could believe? You or the world figure, Bertand Russel, an impartial analyst!!

For all other shots, I would like to request a Muslim to answer it. Because what you had denied threaten their faith!! How is it?
Ha... Ha.... Ha....

Jews claimed that they crucified Jesus because of his "blasphemous" claims of being "Son of Yahweh". Then Islam would murmur .......
Jesus was not crucifiedddddddd... Allah raised Jesus to Himself closer to Him... Vooooof....

Jews categorically rejected the divine birth, miracles, sinless, alive, etc. of Jesus. Then Muslims would take AK-47 and praise Jihad .......... Why?

For Islam, Jesus is -

1) “Divine born” (Sura 19:16-35, 3:47, 66:12, 23:50)

2) “Holy (“zakiya”) and sinless at birth and life” (Sura 19:19)

3) "Word from Allah" (Sura 3:39, 45, 64)

4) "Spirit of Allah" (Sura 4:171, 21:91, 66:12)

5) “Messiah of Allah” (Sura 4:171)

6) “Raised by Allah to HIMSELF” (Sura 4:157)

7) "Allah expressed Himself" saying "You Jesus, I am" (Sura 3:55)

8) “Still alive closer to the God” (Sura 3:45, 3:55, 4:158)

9) “Miraculous healer” (Sura 3:49; 5:110)

10) "Miraculous sign of Allah" (Sura 19:21, 21:91, 23:50)

11) "Righteous one" (Sura 3:46, 6:85)

12) "Non-violent" (Sura 19:32)

13) "Blessed wherever he may be" (Sura 19:31)

14) "Illustrious / Esteemed here and in the world hereafter" (Sura 3:45)

15) "Knowledge of the hour" (Sura 43:61)

16) “Expected to come back to earth for judgment” (Sura 43:61 trans by Yusuf Ali and “Mishkat IV”, pp. 78 – 80)

17) “on whom SATAN (the enemy of God, not a prophet) SCARED EVEN TO TOUCH” (but Satan touched all children including Mohamed at birth – emphasis mine) (Sahih Bukhari Hadith, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 506, narrated by Abu Hurraira).


Now, Jews would start the warfare of Mossad against Islam!

In between these two Abrahamic faiths, we poooooor Christians are in a dilemma and are burdened with a great responsibility to teach the two Abrahamic faiths in the "top" and "bottom" of hierarchy, that Jesus is the Eternal Word of Lord, who came to this world to purify the sins of mankind so that all those who believed in His sacrifice on the Cross would be saved on the Judgment Day.

“Go in through the narrow gate, because the gate to hell is wide and the road that leads to it is easy, and there are many who travel it. But the gate to life is narrow and the way that leads to it is hard, and there are few people who find it” – Mathew 7:13

sijo

 

[peaceful soul]

Sijo, those 1st two posts (#34,#35) are very telling in my mind. Very awesome analysis. This is the meat and potatoes of what both Muslims and Christians have to deal with. It is easy for Muslims to make statements about Qu'ran and Islam without looking at the substance of Christianity. That was the basis of a thread that I questioned them on. They point to Qu'ran because they have to in order to save their face, which is what one does in absence of truth. They think that truth is relative, but yet not relative. It is relative when we point out points about Bible that logically invalidate their claim of truth and they claim things are not relative when the point favors Islam. Although that is not true for every single Muslim, it appears to be dominant in how they approach issues.

Bless you, Sijo, for pointing out a few things that may hopefully inspire people to think and to study upon Bible for the truth contained therein.

 

[Shay2005]

Sijo, those 1st two posts (#34,#35) are very telling in my mind. Very awesome analysis. This is the meat and potatoes of what both Muslims and Christians have to deal with. It is easy for Muslims to make statements about Qu'ran and Islam without looking at the substance of Christianity. That was the basis of a thread that I questioned them on. They point to Qu'ran because they have to in order to save their face, which is what one does in absence of truth. They think that truth is relative, but yet not relative. It is relative when we point out points about Bible that logically invalidate their claim of truth and they claim things are not relative when the point favors Islam. Although that is not true for every single Muslim, it appears to be dominant in how they approach issues.

Bless you, Sijo, for pointing out a few things that may hopefully inspire people to think and to study upon Bible for the truth contained therein.

I think that is because your Bible is a little different from their Bible so of course you wouldnt agree with them.

Everything you said in your post can be turn around and they can say the same thing about you. Especially the part about:

It is relative when we point out points about Islam that logically invalidate their claim of truth and they claim things are not relative when the point favors Christianity. Although that is not true for every single Christians, it appears to be dominant in how they approach issues.

Your Bible is kinda different from their Bible so of course you are going to think your Bible is right and they are wrong.

 

[sijo]

I think that is because your Bible is a little different from their Bible so of course you wouldnt agree with them.

Everything you said in your post can be turn around and they can say the same thing about you. Especially the part about:

It is relative when we point out points about Islam that logically invalidate their claim of truth and they claim things are not relative when the point favors Christianity. Although that is not true for every single Christians, it appears to be dominant in how they approach issues.

Your Bible is kinda different from their Bible so of course you are going to think your Bible is right and they are wrong.

Your Bible ........ Their Bible ......... What is their Bible? Is it Quran?

"Everything you said in your post can be turn around and they can say the same thing about you" - Really!? I challenge any muslim in the whole islamic umma to refute my claims. I have already tried it with some "reputed" islamic "scholars", but when they cornered, they shot me away with a sharp weapon, "STUDY ISLAM"!.

If you study Criminology, all those know a simple truth - "every criminal would leave at least a simple piece of truth after crime". I am taking that point - this is the point forgotten by the Spirit who revealed Quran to Mohd in that midnight. By God's grace, I got that point. No doubt, the whole islamic umma has to bow their heads in front of this question to prove their shift from "salvation by substitutionary blood sacrifice" to "salvation by good deeds". The righteous God would not give two types of Salvations at two times!!

Vow! Are you boasting with peaceful soul? Jews are also not an exception. By claiming the prophecy of Isaiah in Chapter 53 as referring to Israel, if any one of the Jews misunderstood that it would work with Christians, my dear, YOU ARE WRONG! I am challenging you or any other Jew / Muslim in the world to prove how Isaiah 53 would be applicable to Israel? It is not a word / sentence, but a full chapter. Prove how it would attributed to Israel? Come here and prove your case.

If Isaiah 53 related to Israel, then what about that of Jeremiah? It may be relating to Palestine!
If yes, then, what about Psalms 22? It may be relating to America!
If yes, then, who is the Anointed Son of God - Psalm 2? It may be Saudi Arabia!
If yes, then, who is the Son of Virgin - Isaiah 14? It may be my India!
If yes, then, who is the Merciful Messiah - Isaiah 42:3? It may be England!
If yes, then, who is the Everlasting King - Daniel 7:14? It may be Denmark!
If yes, then, who is the LAST OF PROPHETS - Zachariah 13? It may be UGANDA!
If yes, then, who is the Son of Righteousness - Malachi 4:2? It may be France!
If yes, then, what about the Seed of Woman - Genesis 3:15? It is sure, Sri Lanka!
If yes, then, who is the Redeemer of Lord - Isaiah 44:6? Hmm... It is Nigeria!
If yes, then, who is the Wonderful Counseller, Mighty God, Prince of Peace - Isaiah 9:6? It may be Sierra Liona!

If yes, then, ....... you need more? Tell me, I would give 161 prophecies given by Old Testament prophets that would make any Jew or Muslim with no other opportunity, but to accept Jesus Christ, as the fulfillment of all prophecies and the LAST REVELATION, which make no other revelation possible!! Are u satisfied now?

Please don't make your own judgment. Because we know the facts. Without answering my sharp-edged questions about the Messiah prophecised by prophets and Israel getting released from Roman control without any Messiah, you are shooting to the space. Please..... Just my half-hour ..........

Vooooph.. still not satisfied? Then please give me an answer to a small question:

If Isaiah 53 is relating to Israel, then why Jews refuse to read that passage in your congregational services?

Do u have any answer?

He..... He... He... Don't waste your time, my dear. I know the answer. I know your pathetic situation also. I will pray for you.

“Bad as you are, you know how to give good things to your children. How much more, then, will the Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him” – Luke 11:13

sijo

 

[Shay2005]

Your Bible ........ Their Bible ......... What is their Bible? Is it Quran?

"Everything you said in your post can be turn around and they can say the same thing about you" - Really!? I challenge any muslim in the whole islamic umma to refute my claims. I have already tried it with some "reputed" islamic "scholars", but when they cornered, they shot me away with a sharp weapon, "STUDY ISLAM"!.

If you study Criminology, all those know a simple truth - "every criminal would leave at least a simple piece of truth after crime". I am taking that point - this is the point forgotten by the Spirit who revealed Quran to Mohd in that midnight. By God's grace, I got that point. No doubt, the whole islamic umma has to bow their heads in front of this question to prove their shift from "salvation by substitutionary blood sacrifice" to "salvation by good deeds". The righteous God would not give two types of Salvations at two times!!

Vow! Are you boasting with peaceful soul? Jews are also not an exception. By claiming the prophecy of Isaiah in Chapter 53 as referring to Israel, if any one of the Jews misunderstood that it would work with Christians, my dear, YOU ARE WRONG! I am challenging you or any other Jew / Muslim in the world to prove how Isaiah 53 would be applicable to Israel? It is not a word / sentence, but a full chapter. Prove how it would attributed to Israel? Come here and prove your case.

If Isaiah 53 related to Israel, then what about that of Jeremiah? It may be relating to Palestine!
If yes, then, what about Psalms 22? It may be relating to America!
If yes, then, who is the Anointed Son of God - Psalm 2? It may be Saudi Arabia!
If yes, then, who is the Son of Virgin - Isaiah 14? It may be my India!
If yes, then, who is the Merciful Messiah - Isaiah 42:3? It may be England!
If yes, then, who is the Everlasting King - Daniel 7:14? It may be Denmark!
If yes, then, who is the LAST OF PROPHETS - Zachariah 13? It may be UGANDA!
If yes, then, who is the Son of Righteousness - Malachi 4:2? It may be France!
If yes, then, what about the Seed of Woman - Genesis 3:15? It is sure, Sri Lanka!
If yes, then, who is the Redeemer of Lord - Isaiah 44:6? Hmm... It is Nigeria!
If yes, then, who is the Wonderful Counseller, Mighty God, Prince of Peace - Isaiah 9:6? It may be Sierra Liona!

If yes, then, ....... you need more? Tell me, I would give 161 prophecies given by Old Testament prophets that would make any Jew or Muslim with no other opportunity, but to accept Jesus Christ, as the fulfillment of all prophecies and the LAST REVELATION, which make no other revelation possible!! Are u satisfied now?

Please don't make your own judgment. Because we know the facts. Without answering my sharp-edged questions about the Messiah prophecised by prophets and Israel getting released from Roman control without any Messiah, you are shooting to the space. Please..... Just my half-hour ..........

Vooooph.. still not satisfied? Then please give me an answer to a small question:

If Isaiah 53 is relating to Israel, then why Jews refuse to read that passage in your congregational services?

Do u have any answer?

He..... He... He... Don't waste your time, my dear. I know the answer. I know your pathetic situation also. I will pray for you.

“Bad as you are, you know how to give good things to your children. How much more, then, will the Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him” – Luke 11:13

sijo

Mine is the Torah and I think theres is the Quran.

No need to get upset if you know you are right, right??? Is this how all Christians act when they try to make up claims to prove that others are wrong to justify their religion??

About the chapter in Isaiah go to:

http://jewsforjudaism.com/web/faq/faq-ss.html

Oh course you will want to believe that Isaiah applies to Christ.....Christ is your "god" Send me the 161 prophecies you have. I would be interested in seeing them.

Also we read the passage Isaiah in our congregation just like you

My pathetic situation?? I believe, worship and Pray to G-d unlike you who worship foreign gods such as Jesus, Buddha and whoever else.