Why is your belief good for me?

[Phred]

In recent years I’ve noticed a trend… seems that many Christians feel their faith is the only appropriate faith for an American.

Examples are:

The two-ton ten commandment display in Alabama. When I go into court, I want to know that I’m being judged by the Bill of Rights, not the Ten Commandments. Especially when the first commandment is usually considered to be, “Thou shalt have no other Gods before me.”

The Passion of the Christ. I watched as entire churches bought tickets and went to see it. That’s fine, if it somehow invigorates the Christian faith, then Christians should consider going. But the news channels all showed, over and over and over again, people taking their young children to see it. Now, I’m not interested in watching a man being tortured. Any other movie with this sort of violence would have been avoided by Christians. Yet, I was encouraged to go see it, and was met with shakes of the head when I explained I wasn’t interested.

Organized prayer in public school. Why not just put an armband around every child who isn’t Christian? You wouldn’t do that, would you? Then why put in place a system that will single non-Christians out for abuse? The Jewish kid doesn’t pray in the morning… he gets beat up. No one is stopping a child from praying. As long as there are tests there will be prayers. Why must the prayers be institutionalized?

Because I think a monument to the Ten Commandments is in the wrong place, because I don't care to see the Passion, because I don’t want my children praying to the Christian deity… I’m un-American.

Frankly, I’m beginning to resent it.

.​

 

[informedforGod]

The two-ton ten commandment display in Alabama. When I go into court, I want to know that I’m being judged by the Bill of Rights, not the Ten Commandments. Especially when the first commandment is usually considered to be, “Thou shalt have no other Gods before me.”

Absolutely right, the Ten Commandments have nothing to do with American law. and I'll prove it:
The Ten Commandments - Holy Bible : New Living Translation. 1997 (Dt 5:6). Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House.
#_ftn1 #_ftnref11) No other Gods
2) No idols
3) Do not take the name of the Lord in vain.
(So far so good)
4) Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy. (Most states still have blue laws prohibiting the sale of alcohol on Sundays, which relates to a tradition of no business being open on Sundays, a practice which has only fallen away in the last 25 years)
5) Honour thy father and thy mother (guardian signature required for all contracts involving minors)
6) Do not murder (hmm . . .)
7) Do not commit adultery (an anomoly in the moral laws of the united states, civil suits may still be filed)
8) Do not steal (hmm . . .)
9) Do not bear false witness (perjury anyone?)
10) Thou shalt not covet.

wow, you are so right, the Ten Commandments have nothing to do with America's legal system, thank you for enlightening me.



#_ftn1 #_ftnref1

 

[12volt_man]

In recent years I’ve noticed a trend… seems that many Christians feel their faith is the only appropriate faith for an American.

Really? What Christian has said this?

Examples are:

The two-ton ten commandment display in Alabama. When I go into court, I want to know that I’m being judged by the Bill of Rights, not the Ten Commandments.

First of all, it may surprise you to learn that the ten commandments do not originate with Christianity, but in the Jewish scriptures.

Second, you might want to study up on the origin of the Bill of Rights and other founding documents, as well as the men who wrote them.

Third, Christianity is not the only religion that honors the ideals listed in the ten commandments.

The Passion of the Christ. I watched as entire churches bought tickets and went to see it. That’s fine, if it somehow invigorates the Christian faith, then Christians should consider going. But the news channels all showed, over and over and over again, people taking their young children to see it. Now, I’m not interested in watching a man being tortured. Any other movie with this sort of violence would have been avoided by Christians. Yet, I was encouraged to go see it, and was met with shakes of the head when I explained I wasn’t interested.

So what? This is really the biggest thing you can find to complain about? That Christians liked the Passion?

It's way too intense to take a child to but non-Christians take their children to movies that are just as bad, if not worse.

My religious beliefs aside, it's an incredible movie. So much so that conventional wisdom says it's going to be neck and neck with "Ray" for picture of the year.

I don't see how the idea that Christians liked "The Passion" shows that "Christians feel their faith is the only appropriate faith for an American."

Organized prayer in public school. Why not just put an armband around every child who isn’t Christian? You wouldn’t do that, would you? Then why put in place a system that will single non-Christians out for abuse? The Jewish kid doesn’t pray in the morning… he gets beat up. No one is stopping a child from praying. As long as there are tests there will be prayers. Why must the prayers be institutionalized?

Actually, Christians, as a group, aren't for organized prayer. We're simply fighting for students to have the right to express their Christian beliefs.

Frankly, I’m beginning to resent it.

So far, it appears to be all in your head.

.​

[/QUOTE]

 

[HRE]

Absolutely right, the Ten Commandments have nothing to do with American law. and I'll prove it:
The Ten Commandments - Holy Bible : New Living Translation. 1997 (Dt 5:6). Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House.
1) No other Gods
2) No idols
3) Do not take the name of the Lord in vain.
(So far so good)
4) Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy. (Most states still have blue laws prohibiting the sale of alcohol on Sundays, which relates to a tradition of no business being open on Sundays, a practice which has only fallen away in the last 25 years)
5) Honour thy father and thy mother (guardian signature required for all contracts involving minors)
6) Do not murder (hmm . . .)
7) Do not commit adultery (an anomoly in the moral laws of the united states, civil suits may still be filed)
8) Do not steal (hmm . . .)
9) Do not bear false witness (perjury anyone?)
10) Thou shalt not covet.

wow, you are so right, the Ten Commandments have nothing to do with America's legal system, thank you for enlightening me.

See, it's the first four that are a bother. Why don't we just post the Hammarubi's Code of Laws -- those are more in concord with our legal system, and the last six are hardly Christian, anyways...

 

[12volt_man]

the last six are hardly Christian, anyways...

How can you say that they're not Christian when they're taught in the New Testament?

 

[HRE]

Let me clarify:

I meant that the last six could hardly be defined as "Christians", like pyramids could hardly be defined as "egyptian". Those 6 occur all over the place, like pyramids occur all over the place.

 

[Lifesaver]

Why is the Christian faith good for everyone?
Because it is true, and the truth is always a good, while error is always something bad.

 

[CSMR]

In recent years I’ve noticed a trend… seems that many Christians feel their faith is the only appropriate faith for an American.

This is the faith that brings us into the love of God and eternal life. I wouldn't restrict it to Americans.

 

[Randall McNally]

1) No other Gods
2) No idols
3) Do not take the name of the Lord in vain.
(So far so good)

So you agree that public displays should omit these three?

4) Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy. (Most states still have blue laws prohibiting the sale of alcohol on Sundays, which relates to a tradition of no business being open on Sundays, a practice which has only fallen away in the last 25 years)

That's keeping the Sabbath holy? Blue laws?

5) Honour thy father and thy mother (guardian signature required for all contracts involving minors)

Wow. That's honoring one's parents?

6) Do not murder (hmm . . .)

That's not the correct translation. "Murder" is defined as "unlawful killing." But "unlawful" is only relevant with respect to a governing body that makes laws. I doubt the OT God really meant, "Don't kill those your government tells you not to kill."

7) Do not commit adultery (an anomoly in the moral laws of the united states, civil suits may still be filed)

Please.

8) Do not steal (hmm . . .)
9) Do not bear false witness (perjury anyone?)

Not very useful. Only a tiny percentage of citizens every testify under oath.

10) Thou shalt not covet.

Heh. Good luck with that one.

wow, you are so right, the Ten Commandments have nothing to do with America's legal system, thank you for enlightening me.

The examples you list require more stretching and manipulating than Ted Kennedy trying on a spandex jumpsuit.

Truly, one of the worst efforts I've seen.

 

[informedforGod]

So you agree that public displays should omit these three?

Very improper inference. I generally try to not make specific assertions but rather introduce possibility and probability deconstructing the oppositions arguments.

That's not the correct translation. "Murder" is defined as "unlawful killing." But "unlawful" is only relevant with respect to a governing body that makes laws. I doubt the OT God really meant, "Don't kill those your government tells you not to kill."

Incorrect translation you say? I have asked two of the religion professors at my college about this subject. One of them knows 17 languages, including fluent Ancient Hebrew. The other is an expert on ancient manuscripts. The verb used in this passage is rasah. An actual meaning for this word is pretty indefinable, but examination of its sentence context in EVERY INSTANCE it is found (Biblically and non) it comes out meaning any act of violence (malice anger etc.) resulting in death. So . . . no . . . my translation is pretty straightforward.

In general, the use of Ten Commandments in asserting the association between American legislation and Christianity is weak, admitedly. But that was an issue raised so I dealt with it. If you want better stuff, go to google, and type in America's Christian Heritage. (before you complain take note that the reason I do this is because I'm making a claim from "soft evidence" which is a big picture accumulation from lost of different hard evidences.)

 

[Subordinationist]

Why is your belief good for me?

At first, it is eternal life, later on when you get to know Jesus, it is love for Him. In this life, there isn't too much good for you in Christianity. You will be persecuted, you will have less fun, you will experience mass guilt and shame, you will loose friends, you will make enemies, you might be brutally tortured, raped, and or killed. Once you really start to believe and follow the commandments of Christ, you will have purpose, be blessed, fearless (varyingly), and full of joy.



.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

At first, it is eternal life, later on when you get to know Jesus, it is love for Him. In this life, there isn't too much good for you in Christianity. You will be persecuted, you will have less fun, you will experience mass guilt and shame, you will loose friends, you will make enemies, you might be brutally tortured, raped, and or killed. Once you really start to believe and follow the commandments of Christ, you will have purpose, be blessed, fearless (varyingly), and full of joy.

Are you talking about Christian persecution in America? You actually believe that exists? Who exactly would be doing this persecution anyway? Do you have any evidence that Christians as a group are being persecuted?

I keep hearing about Christian persecution like it's necessary to the religion. I don't get it.

 

[Subordinationist]

Are you talking about Christian persecution in America? You actually believe that exists? Who exactly would be doing this persecution anyway? Do you have any evidence that Christians as a group are being persecuted?

Persecution of Christians growing in the United States

From the above link:

Tolerance of anti-Christian attitudes in the United States is escalating. Recently, a woman in Houston, Texas was ordered by local police to stop handing out gospel tracts to children who knocked on her door during Halloween. Officers informed her that such activity is illegal (not true), and that she would be arrested if she continued. In Madison, Wisconsin, the Freedom from Religion Foundation distributes anti-Christian pamphlets to public school children entitled, "We Can Be Good Without God." The entertainment industry and syndicated media increasingly vilify Christians as sewer rats, vultures, and simple-minded social ingrates.* The FBI and the Clinton White House brand fundamentalist Christian groups as hate mongers and potential terrorists. The Council of Religious Leaders of Metropolitan Chicago warns that plans by Southern Baptists to hold a convention in the Windy City next year might foment "hate crimes" against minorities, causing some Christians to fear that speaking openly about their religious beliefs will soon be considered a crime. All this, while Christianity itself is often a target of hate-crime violence. We remember the students at Columbine, and the United Methodist minister who was fatally beaten and burned in a remote part of Chattanooga, Tennessee, to name a few of the recent examples of interpersonal violence aimed at believers.


Persecution of Christians in America!

International Christian Concern

Voice of the Martyrs

Christian Freedom International

Religious Liberty Commission: The Persecution of Christians Today

I keep hearing about Christian persecution like it's necessary to the religion. I don't get it.

Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
2 Timothy 3:12

If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
John 15:20

And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
1 Corinthians 4:12

Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
2 Corinthians 12:10

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Matthew 5:10-12



.

 

[zbignew]

I think the biggest question for the rightness or wrongness of Christianity is, "What happens to people who never heard of or were not brought up to know about Christ?" I'm talking about natives in forests or some faraway place--do they instantly go to hell? Of course not.

I think Christ's teachings, in its purest form, is very good and wise. Unfortunately, a handful of people (hardline Christian-right) have appropriated it for their own use and purpose (ego and power). Thus Christ's teachings are being corrupted and interpreted any which way that suits these corrupters.

Thus it's important to not just believe everything a so-called "Christian authority" says but to always be critical, analyze, ask yourself, "Am I being conned? Does what they're saying make sense or feel right?"

Christ was a revolutionary who basically asked the question, "Hey, why can't we all get along?" Getting along means equality, mutual respect, valuing everyone equally. This, the corrupters don't like, because things need to be unequal for them to retain power. There has to be "ignorants" and them, the authority, so they can have their power. But if we all say to them, "I believe in Christ but not in you!" we'll reduce them to what they really are: power-hungry con men/women who we shouldn't even give the time of day and just ignore and thus reduce in power and influence.

Amen.

 

[Subordinationist]

Christ was a revolutionary

Is that all? Just a really wise, nice guy? Not according to Jesus.

Who did Jesus claim to be?

Jesus clearly claimed to be the Messiah and Son of God:

Jesus told the Samaritan woman that he is the Messiah (Jn 4:25-26)
Jesus affirmed Peter's statement that he is the Messiah and Son of God (Mt 16:15-17, see also Mk 8:29-30, Lk 9:20-21)
Jesus told the high priest that he is the Messiah and Son of God (Mk 14:61-62, Mt 26:63-64, Lk 22:70)
The Jews understood that this meant Jesus was equating himself with God: "he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God" (Jn 5:17-18).

Other places where Jesus equated himself with God:

Jesus told the Jews, "I and the Father are one." (Jn 10:24-38)
Jesus told the disciples, "You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am." (Jn 13:13)
Jesus forgave sins, which only God had the authority to do (Mk 2:5-11, Lk 5:20-24)
Jesus said that he had seen Abraham and that he is eternal: "'I tell you the truth,' Jesus answered, 'before Abraham was born, I am!'" (Jn 8:57-58)
Jesus said that he had seen God, which no one else could do (Jn 6:46)


Jesus: Liar, Lord, or Lunatic


"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic - on the level with a man who says he is a poached egg - or he would be the devil of hell. You must take your choice. Either this was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us."
C.S. Lewis



Whats it gonna be?




.

 

[zbignew]

On the contrary, if you'll note...

Mathew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good
thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 19:17 And he said
unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that
is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Here Jesus said to the guy who called him "good master", "Why do you call me 'good'? I am not good. Only God is good."

That doesn't sound like someone claiming to be anything. Some biblical scholars say all these messiah passages were added in later on by the church to consolidate their power (they needed some wonderment, some miracles). It doesn't diminish Christ's teachings though.

 

[HRE]

Persecution of Christians growing in the United States

From the above link:

Tolerance of anti-Christian attitudes in the United States is escalating. Recently, a woman in Houston, Texas was ordered by local police to stop handing out gospel tracts to children who knocked on her door during Halloween. Officers informed her that such activity is illegal (not true), and that she would be arrested if she continued. In Madison, Wisconsin, the Freedom from Religion Foundation distributes anti-Christian pamphlets to public school children entitled, "We Can Be Good Without God." The entertainment industry and syndicated media increasingly vilify Christians as sewer rats, vultures, and simple-minded social ingrates.* The FBI and the Clinton White House brand fundamentalist Christian groups as hate mongers and potential terrorists. The Council of Religious Leaders of Metropolitan Chicago warns that plans by Southern Baptists to hold a convention in the Windy City next year might foment "hate crimes" against minorities, causing some Christians to fear that speaking openly about their religious beliefs will soon be considered a crime. All this, while Christianity itself is often a target of hate-crime violence. We remember the students at Columbine, and the United Methodist minister who was fatally beaten and burned in a remote part of Chattanooga, Tennessee, to name a few of the recent examples of interpersonal violence aimed at believers.

Jack Chick.

 

[The Bellman]

Is that all? Just a really wise, nice guy? Not according to Jesus.

Who did Jesus claim to be?

Jesus clearly claimed to be the Messiah and Son of God:

Jesus told the Samaritan woman that he is the Messiah (Jn 4:25-26)
Jesus affirmed Peter's statement that he is the Messiah and Son of God (Mt 16:15-17, see also Mk 8:29-30, Lk 9:20-21)
Jesus told the high priest that he is the Messiah and Son of God (Mk 14:61-62, Mt 26:63-64, Lk 22:70)
The Jews understood that this meant Jesus was equating himself with God: "he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God" (Jn 5:17-18).

Jesus claimed to be the messiah. The messiah was a Jewish tradition, and bears no resemblance to the christian version of the messiah. Of course, Jesus was jewish, not christian.

Other places where Jesus equated himself with God:

OTHER places? You haven't shown any places yet.

Jesus told the Jews, "I and the Father are one." (Jn 10:24-38)
Jesus told the disciples, "You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am." (Jn 13:13)
Jesus forgave sins, which only God had the authority to do (Mk 2:5-11, Lk 5:20-24)
Jesus said that he had seen Abraham and that he is eternal: "'I tell you the truth,' Jesus answered, 'before Abraham was born, I am!'" (Jn 8:57-58)
Jesus said that he had seen God, which no one else could do (Jn 6:46)

None of the above are claims to godhood.

"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic - on the level with a man who says he is a poached egg - or he would be the devil of hell. You must take your choice. Either this was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us."

Yes, we've all seen the Lewis quote. He leaves out the most likely alternative - that Jesus did not claim to be god, but rather the Jewish messiah, and he was simply wrong.

 

[Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win]

In recent years I’ve noticed a trend… seems that many Christians feel their faith is the only appropriate faith for an American.

Not just for an American. Since the day 3000 souls were added to the house of the Lord on the first Pentecost after Jesus' ascension, the Christians have been feeling that every human being in every corner of the globe should repent from his normal ways and join the bandwagon. I heard they are sincerely praying for the birds and animals too so that one day they will repent from their natural ways and accept the Lord.

 

[Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win]

Why is the Christian faith good for everyone?
Because it is true, and the truth is always a good, while error is always something bad.

Could you please come back to non-christian religions and answer my genuine questions on the Holy Roman religion?