Why is what is applicable to the goose not also applicable to the gander?

naphelge

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I am working my way through Lee Strobel's books for kids with my daughter, and in the book on Creation there is a claim:

"If someone is strong enough to create this whole universe, wouldn’t he have to be strong enough to remain alive? Since he made the laws of nature, how could anything in them cause his death?"

My daughter astutely asked: "but if humans can create machines and technology that can result in their own death, then why does the same not apply to God?"

I admit I don't have an adequate answer for this question that I am satisfied giving my daughter. Half-hearted truths are not what we are after. So any good, reasoned approach to answering this inquiry would be most welcome.

Thanks in advance.
 

HTacianas

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I am working my way through Lee Strobel's books for kids with my daughter, and in the book on Creation there is a claim:

"If someone is strong enough to create this whole universe, wouldn’t he have to be strong enough to remain alive? Since he made the laws of nature, how could anything in them cause his death?"

My daughter astutely asked: "but if humans can create machines and technology that can result in their own death, then why does the same not apply to God?"

I admit I don't have an adequate answer for this question that I am satisfied giving my daughter. Half-hearted truths are not what we are after. So any good, reasoned approach to answering this inquiry would be most welcome.

Thanks in advance.

I'm not sure when the writer thinks God died.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I am working my way through Lee Strobel's books for kids with my daughter, and in the book on Creation there is a claim:

"If someone is strong enough to create this whole universe, wouldn’t he have to be strong enough to remain alive? Since he made the laws of nature, how could anything in them cause his death?"

My daughter astutely asked: "but if humans can create machines and technology that can result in their own death, then why does the same not apply to God?"

I admit I don't have an adequate answer for this question that I am satisfied giving my daughter. Half-hearted truths are not what we are after. So any good, reasoned approach to answering this inquiry would be most welcome.

Thanks in advance.

Machines and technology aren't the same in quality and essence as the "Laws of Nature." So, I'm sorry to say, your daughter's 'counter' to Strobel's argument (bless her heart) is an equivocation.
 
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DamianWarS

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Machines and technology aren't the same in quality and essence as the "Laws of Nature." So, I'm sorry to say, your daughter's 'counter' to Strobel's argument (bless her heart) is an equivocation.
but his daughter didn't say "Machines and technology" for God if she did it would be like the classic rock that is so big even God can't lift it. Her question goes beyond the rock as she ultimately asks is there not a like example for God? Can God create something of the same quality and essence that could destroy him?
 
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Eloy Craft

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Humans aren't able to create in the manner God creates. We manipulate what God has created bound by the physical laws that God created. God's freedom is absolute ours is contingent on God.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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but his daughter didn't say "Machines and technology" for God if she did it would be like the classic rock that is so big even God can't lift it. Her question goes beyond the rock as she ultimately asks is there not a like example for God? Can God create something of the same quality and essence that could destroy him?

I didn't say that she said that 'machines and technology' were analogous to God.

And no, there is not a "like" example for God in this thought project. I'm sure the daughter meant well and was doing her best to use her noggin', but she's wrong nevertheless.
 
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DamianWarS

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I didn't say that she said that 'machines and technology' were analogous to God.

And no, there is not a "like" example for God in this thought project. I'm sure the daughter meant well and was doing her best to use her noggin', but she's wrong nevertheless.

I would say no as only something more powerful than God can defeat him and not only the existence of such a thing but the theoretical existence of it would disqualify him as being God as he would no longer possess the characteristics needed to be God. So because even on a theoretical level it would expose God as flawed, and we know God is not, no such thing is possible.
 
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Kaon

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I am working my way through Lee Strobel's books for kids with my daughter, and in the book on Creation there is a claim:

"If someone is strong enough to create this whole universe, wouldn’t he have to be strong enough to remain alive? Since he made the laws of nature, how could anything in them cause his death?"

My daughter astutely asked: "but if humans can create machines and technology that can result in their own death, then why does the same not apply to God?"

I admit I don't have an adequate answer for this question that I am satisfied giving my daughter. Half-hearted truths are not what we are after. So any good, reasoned approach to answering this inquiry would be most welcome.

Thanks in advance.

It begins from a fault: the (mis)understanding of perfection, and the misunderstanding of the necessity of a prime. There is always a prime foundation to everything - a cell for a body, an atom for a cell, elementary particles for atoms, and field energy for elementary particles. There is always something "indivisible" and "invincible".

Infinity and infinitesimal is only misunderstood by humans because we cannot properly perceive infinity - let alone the many different types of infinities. This is why an Entity Perfect in power, beyond the idea of time and completely and utterly the Most High, is hard to imagine. But, there is One who is higher than everything - that has no "beginning" or "end" (especially since time is a human construct).

Paradoxes are philosophical demands to diversify (human) thinking.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I would say no as only something more powerful than God can defeat him and not only the existence of such a thing but the theoretical existence of it would disqualify him as being God as he would no longer possess the characteristics needed to be God. So because even on a theoretical level it would expose God as flawed, and we know God is not, no such thing is possible.

Ok...................so it sounds like you're agree with me, then. Nothing is greater than God, and thereby there is no analogy for argument's sake that will show or imply or prove that God is susceptible to His own Creation like we are when we create some bit of technology.
 
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DamianWarS

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Ok...................so it sounds like you're agree with me, then. Nothing is greater than God, and thereby there is no analogy for argument's sake that will show or imply or prove that God is susceptible to His own Creation like we are when we create some bit of technology.
my disagreement with your post was about how it limited the daughter's question to just "machines and technology". To me, it was phrased in a way to consider a like example for God, even if that example would be ineffable on our level; it was a deeper version of "can God make a rock so big that even he can't lift it?" paradox.

You're right that nothing is greater than God. Even the possibility of something being created by God himself could be made in such a way that it could overpower him would alone disqualify him as God. It doesn't even have to exist, just the mere possibility of it would be enough because it exposes God as flawed. Since God is still God we know that such a possibility does not and cannot exist.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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my disagreement with your post was about how it limited the daughter's question to just "machines and technology". To me, it was phrased in a way to consider a like example of for God, even if that example would be ineffable on our level.
I'm sorry, but I don't see that I said much to be disagreed with. I'd RATHER just come on out with it and tell the OP writer that his daughter, while I'm sure is an intelligent child, is mistaken. Clear and simple. Human Technology is "effable," while God's Creation, His Being, and His totality of acts are "ineffable." So, there's really no direct comparison. Just a confusion of concepts.

Still, I do think she should be given kudos for doing her best to critically evaluate the ideas put in front of her. :cool:

You're right that nothing is greater than God. Even the possibility of something being created by God himself could be made in such a way that it could overpower him would alone disqualify him as God. It doesn't even have to exist, just the mere possibility of it would be enough because it exposes God as flawed. Since God is still God we know that such a possibility does not and cannot exist.
I rest my case.
 
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naphelge

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Thks for the replies. I think I got something tangible to go back to my daughter with to answer her question.

Humans are inherently fallible and so cannot escape fallibility in much of what we think, invent, design, build, create, etc.; and so death by inadvertent miscalculation and accident are inevitable.

God, on the other hand, because he is (infinitely) infallible is incapable of mistakes and so not apt to misfortune that could possibly lead to his own demise.

But then, did God know when he created humans that they would ultimately fail/fall and be suseptible to fallibility? I understand how free agency allows for the possibility, but I wonder if there is a general consensus on whether God knew humans would fail or was he surprised when it happened (Adam and Eve)? Because if surprised the wouldn't that suggest a degree of fallibility? If not surprised, but he knew from before humans failed, why would he create something doomed to failure?
 
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coffee4u

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I am working my way through Lee Strobel's books for kids with my daughter, and in the book on Creation there is a claim:

"If someone is strong enough to create this whole universe, wouldn’t he have to be strong enough to remain alive? Since he made the laws of nature, how could anything in them cause his death?"

My daughter astutely asked: "but if humans can create machines and technology that can result in their own death, then why does the same not apply to God?"

I admit I don't have an adequate answer for this question that I am satisfied giving my daughter. Half-hearted truths are not what we are after. So any good, reasoned approach to answering this inquiry would be most welcome.

Thanks in advance.

Is the first quote talking about Jesus? Jesus willingly gave himself up to save mankind, he didn't die because he was weak but because he was strong and perfect. Only perfect blood could redeem mankind.

God is a spirit, God cannot die. Jesus took on a man's body, the flesh, and only that part died.

If this was not what the question is about could you explain further?
 
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SkyWriting

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"If someone is strong enough to create this whole universe, wouldn’t he have to be strong enough to remain alive? Since he made the laws of nature, how could anything in them cause his death?" So any good, reasoned approach to answering this inquiry would be most welcome.

Jesus purposely gave his life for our sins.

If you really love somebody, you offer whatever you have to save them.
Giving you life up for others is the highest thing a person can offer.

Some people have murdered others, and yet Jesus still gave His life for them.
Why give up His life?

Well, how about $10 to pay for others sins. Ok, how about $100?
Still not enough to cover the crime. How about Jesus giving up His life?
That should cover "the fines."
 
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JIMINZ

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I am working my way through Lee Strobel's books for kids with my daughter, and in the book on Creation there is a claim:

"If someone is strong enough to create this whole universe, wouldn’t he have to be strong enough to remain alive? Since he made the laws of nature, how could anything in them cause his death?"

My daughter astutely asked: "but if humans can create machines and technology that can result in their own death, then why does the same not apply to God?"

I admit I don't have an adequate answer for this question that I am satisfied giving my daughter. Half-hearted truths are not what we are after. So any good, reasoned approach to answering this inquiry would be most welcome.

Thanks in advance.

God is not only life, "GOD" is the essence of ALL life.

Without God there would be no Planet for that life to live on.
God spoke everything into being, when He spoke, HIS words became alive.

After God had finished speaking everything into existence, He then CREATED two more things, ADAM out of the Ground which He had already spoken into being, and then Eve out of the Created Man.

God then stepped back and gave Dominion over everything to the Created beings He had Breathed His Life into.

To sum it all up, the LIFE of God is eternal, it had no beginning it has no end, it just is.

Having Eternal Life means, it CANNOT and does not have an end, it cannot die.

God does not only have Eternal Life He is the essence of all life.

If God died everything He had Spoken into being and Created, would also die because, HE is the source of All life, when the Source dies all life dies.
 
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SkyWriting

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I am working my way through Lee Strobel's books for kids with my daughter, and in the book on Creation there is a claim:

"If someone is strong enough to create this whole universe, wouldn’t he have to be strong enough to remain alive? Since he made the laws of nature, how could anything in them cause his death?"

If you would want to pay the penalty for your daughters imperfections, how much would you pay? What percent of what you have would you offer for her sins?
 
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