Why Is This An Issue?

[irateional]

I'm serious.

Why are we debating homosexuality when out of all the sins we need to be "fighting against" we focus on this one?

I mean seriously folks, homosexuality warrants more attention than:

-lying
-the commercializiation/consumerism of current Christian culture
-The fact that "Christian" leaders are committing atrocities all around the world
-That we have done nothing to build up friendships with people from other faiths as a whole
-Or that the majority of non-Christians and increasingly larger numbers of Christians are falling away from a church which they feel cares more about dogma than people.

I'm seriously asking. I can't see how a sexual act is such a big issue. Sin or not, we're all sinning, all the time. I"m sure most of us lie at times. Or get angry at others. Or have lustful thoughts. Why do we go out of our way to focus on gays?

 

[Ave Maria]

Its probably such a big issue because homosexual acts are taboo in most parts of the world, especially the western world. This means that people are more likely to argue about it. That is why this topic needs its own subforum.

 

[irateional]

Makes sense to me. Still, I'd figure that we'd be more worried as Christians about other things. I'd think it'd be more beneficial to debate the merits and negatives of the "Christian Subculture" or the idea of there being a Christian alternative to everything.

 

[RMDY]

I'm serious.

Why are we debating homosexuality when out of all the sins we need to be "fighting against" we focus on this one?

I mean seriously folks, homosexuality warrants more attention than:

-lying
-the commercializiation/consumerism of current Christian culture
-The fact that "Christian" leaders are committing atrocities all around the world
-That we have done nothing to build up friendships with people from other faiths as a whole
-Or that the majority of non-Christians and increasingly larger numbers of Christians are falling away from a church which they feel cares more about dogma than people.

I'm seriously asking. I can't see how a sexual act is such a big issue. Sin or not, we're all sinning, all the time. I"m sure most of us lie at times. Or get angry at others. Or have lustful thoughts. Why do we go out of our way to focus on gays?

Sexuality tends to be a big issue in God's eyes: i.e. Adultery.

A lot of us like to exhort each other into not comitting sins, but some choose to specifically targets certain kinds of sinners: some choose thieves, some choose adulterers, some choose homosexuals, some choose prideful people, some choose idolators.

 

[TheManeki]

Many of us believe our gay brothers and sisters deserve the same rights as our straight brothers and sisters. In some ways this is also tied into reversing many churches'' regression from a doctrine of love into a Pharasical obsession with legalism.

 

[RMDY]

Many of us believe our gay brothers and sisters deserve the same rights as our straight brothers and sisters. In some ways this is also tied into reversing many churches'' regression from a doctrine of love into a Pharasical obsession with legalism.

I am quite aware of this, and I have not spoken against this, except that to pursue something God is not happy with is not something you should do.

Just as God is more important than money, rights are not always right in the eyes of God. Many people fight for their right to worship their 3 million God's, and some don't have to do that while in a country like Canada.
Some fight for their right to pirate and steal music while people like myself believe the right to share music with others is not something we should pursue.
The right to divorce a person we don't love anymore in marriage and marry while divorced is something someone like myself perfers not to pursue.
People believe they should be able to have the right to worship their 3 million God's and burn incense to Baal, don't they? Because it is a free country and a human right, after all? But is this really right? Who tells you it is right or maybe wrong? Does not Scriptures tell you that burning incense [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]es God off? After all, there is more to the law of condemning idols about [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ing God off about worshipping Baal and 3 million other gods, is there now! Yes, indeed, there is! God relates it to spiritual adultery! It breaks his heart when we do that!
Just the same way, we interpret the prophecies in certain ways about Jesus! No one told us in Isiah 53 that the Suffering Servant is Jesus! But the way it was said, it did! Likewise, in how God speaks about marriage and in how many people within the bible talk about the relationship of marriage, you'd have thought that it was exclusive between man and women by now.

Just like, if your girlfriend (or boyfriend) were to say to you, ok, you can do anything you want, even cheat on me. No rules! You wouldn't just do it because there were no rules against it! You would know it would be morally wrong to do that, because it would be wrong in your partners eyes!
In the same way, whether rules are there or not about sexuality, the idea of what is morally right and wrong is already there as well, whether rules or no rules.
You can make your relationship with God how you want it to be, like how a man with no rules can make his relationship with his girlfriend out to be too! But we must listen to our partner, who is God! God is our partner, and we must listen to him, because we love Him! If God created something a certain way, we can't tell the potter as pottery "I don't like your creation and I believe things aren't the way as they should be!" Though the potter moves you some place, or designs you a certain way, he didn't intend for you to be used in ways he didn't want you to be used, whether rules condemn you for it or not or dictate what you should do.

You see, though God told Moses to command the stone to have water come from it, he tapped it instead, but water still came from it. This wasn't according to God's plan, and as a result, he sinned against God and was punished, never allowed to enter the promised land (though he did through Jesus).

Likewise, God tells us how he created us to live sexual moral lives, but we choose to rebel and live other ways, producing the same result as relationships he destined us for or in ways he would like us to live and in ways he urges us to not live, but they all, wickedness and righteous, produce the same result.

Whether Moses tapped the rock or commanded it to have water spring from it, water still did.
And by faith, I pray you will accept what I believe to be God's command for living sexually moral lives away from homosexuality.

You see what I believe in?
Like all the same above, I don't believe in pursuing in the right to be married as a same-sex couple.

No pastor told me this and no church did either.
The Word of God is offensive to many and so is the cross. I wouldn't be surprised if you spat on me for being so.....what you probably believe to be unfair, as a result of what I believe in Christ. But God bless you. I am not pursing these ideas because they are fundamental and based on following a set of rules.

Even if there were no law condemning "homosexuality," I would still believe that the only moral form of sexuality in the eyes of God would be.....man joined with a women, in a marriage.

Note that I believe in Galatians 5 about living according to the Spirit, which Paul said there was "no law" against it. There is also no law condemning you if you follow those things, but he warned us not to pursue what contradicts those things, which were listed as sin-nature.

You cannot mix acid with milk, can you, without it going bad?
There is no rules for that, but there is dicipline for pursuing such things because God loves us, and in the end, if we know such things are wrong and we do them, and it is time to collect our earnings---which is eternal life, then we are self-condemned, not by law, but by our own freedom, just as by our own freedom, we are self-condemned by blasphaming the Holy Spirit.

 

[TheManeki]

Lotsa strawmen there. I accept that you believe what you believe, and I'm sure you accept that I believe what I believe, but I would like to change what I see as an incorrect interpretation of scripture that fails one segment of the body of Christ.

After all, interpretations of scripture do change and evolve. One of my favorite examples is the Bible on usury -- originally taken to mean charging any kind of interest, it has since been redefined by Christians to be charging excessive interest.

I don't see how two adults in a monogamous relationship, practicing the kind of love that Christ talked about, can be adultery. Right now the main difference is that the same-sex couple is not considered "married" by most churches.

Divorce is a far more serious threat to families than same-sex marriages, and explicitly condemned by Jesus, yet it is seldom railed against as strongly (except for Zaac). I've never seen Christians picketing family courts, or heard us urging companies not to run commercials during episodes of "Divorce Court."

Shouldn't we be encouraging the formation of stable marriages, regardless of the genders of the people in them?

 

[jad123]

For me the issue with homosexuality has nothing to do with the sin of homosexuality itself but the denial that it is even sinful.

 

[RMDY]

Lotsa strawmen there. I accept that you believe what you believe, and I'm sure you accept that I believe what I believe, but I would like to change what I see as an incorrect interpretation of scripture that fails one segment of the body of Christ.

After all, interpretations of scripture do change and evolve. One of my favorite examples is the Bible on usury -- originally taken to mean charging any kind of interest, it has since been redefined by Christians to be charging excessive interest.

I don't see how two adults in a monogamous relationship, practicing the kind of love that Christ talked about, can be adultery. Right now the main difference is that the same-sex couple is not considered "married" by most churches.

Divorce is a far more serious threat to families than same-sex marriages, and explicitly condemned by Jesus, yet it is seldom railed against as strongly (except for Zaac). I've never seen Christians picketing family courts, or heard us urging companies not to run commercials during episodes of "Divorce Court."

Shouldn't we be encouraging the formation of stable marriages, regardless of the genders of the people in them?

I admire your post. God bless you.
I also agree with you that some people are biased against one kind of sinner more than the other.

I encourage you to stop referring to peoples posts as "strawmen", for you would not like it if people said this to you. I understand you want to express your view, but we must post what we believe, and if we are to express our views with firm statements, let us use Scripture to express it rather than our own words firmly, for Scripture is the authority on which we express God's Word.

Whether Divorce or Same-sex marriage is more worse than one another is not what I am concerned about, I am concerned about what Scripture has to say about the Spirit.

Does it not concern you that your idea about sexual immorality may be wrong? What if it is? How would you take it?

This is my concern, not whether you sin or not, but about Spiritual things.

I am not concerned about condemning you or about homosexuality, as some people say, being the vilest of sins.

If you want to know my opinion, I believe murder is worse than homosexuality. I believe that greed is far worse than homosexuality, but I also believe sexual impurity is something that is a problem just as great as these, but on other levels. Though some sin may cause more problems for others than other sins, such as adultery, murder, greed. Nonetheless, sexual sins are sins that are very deceitful, as our bodies crave them. My body craves porn. My past passions are to watch porn, to watch sex, to lust over sex. But thank God Christ has crucified it those things to the cross and given me life as a result of his death and given me his Spirit to make me into a new creation.

There are sins that hurt others, and then there are sins that hurt ourselves, as well as others.
touching yourself is a sin that should be benificial to us! After all, it brings us great pleasure and gets our minds off lusting! It reliefs us! Is helps us to relax! It helps the body! But is it really beneficial to us as a Christian? No, it is not.

Is downloading one little song off the internet for free going to hurt anyone? No, probably not. But will it hurt us as a Christian? Yes, yes it will.

What about fornicators who have healthy, loving relationships and have children before marriage? They are happy couples! My brother just got married with his wife and are expecting a child and they believe it is normal to experience this, having sexual relations and a child before marriage. It's hurting no one by doing this!
But is it right!? Is it right to do this as a Christian!? NO....no...no!
OF COURSE not. Because fornication is something right for Christians.

I struggle against fornication! I feel the urges of my body, the desires, the passions! I want to fornicate all the time, but its not right! Its not what my Spirit wants! Its not really what I want! It's what my sin-nature wants. It deceives me into thinking it is normal, pleasurable, beneficial, and right.

And you expect me to believe that pornia in all forms harmless? Surely, you may be right----same-sex couples may do no harm to others or even themselves, but what about the harm it brings between their relationship with God? Do they forsake God for such things for the sake of their passions and desires? What about their relationship with God?

Christianity comes down to a relationship between God and yourself, father to son, friend to friend. When you accepted Christ, you entered into his new covenant, an agreement between you and God that you would follow God through the blood of Christ.

Do you care what God thinks and feels and wants of you in your relationship with Him or do you just care about what you think, and yourself, and want to ignore Scripture and interpret it your own way to ich your iching ears?

Perhaps you may feel my post towards you is unfair.
I can only tell you I believe Galatians Chapter 5 urges us to walk with the Spirit and not sexual immorality. I can urge you not to follow what I believe is to be sexual immorality. But in the end, God will be your judge. Perhaps I am wrong, and if I am, then may God forgive me, for I will have been a false witness about His Word and led many people astray.

 

[RMDY]

For me the issue with homosexuality has nothing to do with the sin of homosexuality itself but the denial that it is even sinful.

 

[BAFRIEND]

I'm serious.

Why are we debating homosexuality when out of all the sins we need to be "fighting against" we focus on this one?

I mean seriously folks, homosexuality warrants more attention than:

-lying
-the commercializiation/consumerism of current Christian culture
-The fact that "Christian" leaders are committing atrocities all around the world
-That we have done nothing to build up friendships with people from other faiths as a whole
-Or that the majority of non-Christians and increasingly larger numbers of Christians are falling away from a church which they feel cares more about dogma than people.

I'm seriously asking. I can't see how a sexual act is such a big issue. Sin or not, we're all sinning, all the time. I"m sure most of us lie at times. Or get angry at others. Or have lustful thoughts. Why do we go out of our way to focus on gays?

The reason we focus on this particular objectionable objective moral evil is that it is at the forefront of relativism and the erosion of Christianity.

The debate is not really about the sin, it is about the cover-up and false witness about Christian beliefs.

Hope that helped.

 

[Zaac]

I'm serious.

Why are we debating homosexuality when out of all the sins we need to be "fighting against" we focus on this one?

I mean seriously folks, homosexuality warrants more attention than:

-lying
-the commercializiation/consumerism of current Christian culture
-The fact that "Christian" leaders are committing atrocities all around the world
-That we have done nothing to build up friendships with people from other faiths as a whole
-Or that the majority of non-Christians and increasingly larger numbers of Christians are falling away from a church which they feel cares more about dogma than people.

I'm seriously asking. I can't see how a sexual act is such a big issue. Sin or not, we're all sinning, all the time. I"m sure most of us lie at times. Or get angry at others. Or have lustful thoughts. Why do we go out of our way to focus on gays?

It's an issue because the committing of homosexual sex acts is a sin. All sin should be an issue in the life of a Christian.

If I correct you when you lie, why would I not correct you when you have sex outside of God's ordained marriage covenant?

 

[DMagoh]

It's an issue because the committing of homosexual sex acts is a sin. All sin should be an issue in the life of a Christian.

If I correct you when you lie, why would I not correct you when you have sex outside of God's ordained marriage covenant?

Exactly. And the Bible tells believers to correct other believers.

19 My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20


5 Better is open rebuke than hidden love. 6 Wounds from a friend can be trusted, but an enemy multiplies kisses.
Proverbs 27:5-6

 

[D.W.Washburn]

We focus on the issues concerning homosexuality because western society is undergoing a sea change in its understanding of same sex attraction. It is a hot and divisive issue because it strikes at...

1. our sexuality which is at the core of our being

2. our understanding of the authority of Scripture

3. our use and appropriation of tradition.

I believe that issues surrounding homosexuality are being pushed by people with political agendas from both sides. On the one hand, anti-gay marriage rhetoric is useful for rallying the conservative troops in arenas of both political and church life. On the other hand, there are gay activists who push the issues in their pursuit of full inclusion in civil and religious life.

We spend our time discussing homosexuality because it is the bleeding edge for church and society at the moment, just as slavery was in the 18th and 19th centuries, and Temperance was in the 19th and early 20th centuries.

 

[UnitedInChrist]

The reason why it is such a hot topic, is because it's the one sin that would not impact most people. If one was to focus on overeating, drinking, divorce, preparital sex, sex without procreating, etc...it would hit nearly 99.9% of all of us..preachers included. With homosexuality, it's easier to come down on it because its "them" and it's a sin far removed from the str8 person. If we were to focus on all the other sins..it would impact just about everyone, and then many in this forum, as well as other threads, wouldn't be so quick to cast judgement on others as they do on homosexuals.

 

[TheManeki]

Amen.

 

[HaloHope]

The reason why it is such a hot topic, is because it's the one sin that would not impact most people. If one was to focus on overeating, drinking, divorce, preparital sex, sex without procreating, etc...it would hit nearly 99.9% of all of us..preachers included. With homosexuality, it's easier to come down on it because its "them" and it's a sin far removed from the str8 person. If we were to focus on all the other sins..it would impact just about everyone, and then many in this forum, as well as other threads, wouldn't be so quick to cast judgement on others as they do on homosexuals.

Amen


I would say homosexuality is only something I myself debate, because others debate it. I feel that it's very important for those of us comfortable as the people we are to show gay christians struggling with their sexuality because of anti-gay sentiment in some churches that it's ok for them to be in a gay relationship.

 

[DMagoh]

The reason why it is such a hot topic, is because it's the one sin that would not impact most people. If one was to focus on overeating, drinking, divorce, preparital sex, sex without procreating, etc...it would hit nearly 99.9% of all of us..preachers included. With homosexuality, it's easier to come down on it because its "them" and it's a sin far removed from the str8 person. If we were to focus on all the other sins..it would impact just about everyone, and then many in this forum, as well as other threads, wouldn't be so quick to cast judgement on others as they do on homosexuals.

I focus on all sins. I'm guilty of some, not of others. The difference is, I dont pretend something is NOT sin. When a homosexual says homosexual behavior is NOT sin, it sparks a debate. Just like if someone were to say that divorce (without the adultery exception) is sin, it would spark a debate.

It has nothing to do with homosexuality being singled out as a "worst sin than others" or "you are a minority" or anything like that. It has to do with homosexuals claiming that male/male or female/female sex is not sin.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

One's sin seems the most important when they are guilty of it. Homosexuality stands out because it's a "visual" sin and it's like a lifestyle. At least in the USA. Me, I think my sin of judging others based on how smart they are or thinking badly of people is worse than homosexuality. Not that visual since it occurs in my head, but I still see it as sin and want it gone..

 

[Zaac]

The reason why it is such a hot topic, is because it's the one sin that would not impact most people.

And that is spoken of from a merely secular perspective and not a Kingdom Perspective.

Sin is intertwined. It's gonna have an impact. My sin is intertwined with yours and yours is intertwined with mine. And a lot of times, we are the recipients of the by-product of someone else's sin.

But it's good to see that you are at least acknowledging that it is a sin.

If one was to focus on overeating, drinking, divorce, preparital sex, sex without procreating, etc...it would hit nearly 99.9% of all of us..preachers included. With homosexuality, it's easier to come down on it because its "them" and it's a sin far removed from the str8 person.

Then treat the committing of homosexual sex acts as what it is---FORNICATION--- and everybody, gay and straight can be dealt with equally.

If folks want to talk about homosexual fornication, then lets also deal with the heterosexual fornication.

If we were to focus on all the other sins..it would impact just about everyone, and then many in this forum, as well as other threads, wouldn't be so quick to cast judgement on others as they do on homosexuals.

Then call 'em on it. I can't stand hypocrisy. If you come upon a Christian who calls homosexual fornication into check, ask him if he does the same thing with heterosexual fornicators.