• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Why is the day of worship controversial?

klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,337
Sydney, Australia.
✟252,364.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Someone has made a dreadful mistake.

Circumcision is the law, the ten commandments are the law. Delete one law and you delete all the law.

You are dividing the law into segments and that approach ignores the context.

I suggest you do some research outside of your SDA church. Your living in a paradox but you cannot see it.

Reject church history and you can forget the New Testament altogether. Why are you missing this obvious point?

You can't quote from the New Testament, and at the same time reject church history.
 
Reactions: ace of hearts
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,636
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,349.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married

Now brother David. That is not true at all. Please show me where God's 10 commandments mention CIRCUMCISION. You mix up God's shadow laws from the MOSIAC book of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT with GOD's eternal law that gives us the KNOWLDEGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. As a result we have no knowledge of what sin is. If we do not have a knowledge of what sin is we have no need of a Saviour. If we have no need of a Saviour then we have no salvation. If we have no salvation then we are lost because we are still in our sins.

Can you see the error in your argument here brother? It denies the Word of God. As shown earlier. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. JESUS says those who knowingly do so are not following God.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: mmksparbud
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
How many times do I need to tell you all your OT passages have no relevance to the Christian? This includes all your NT passages you think indicate a requirement to keep the famous 10. Paul says those that do void any significance of Jesus. Here's the passage again -
Gal 5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
 
Upvote 0

klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,337
Sydney, Australia.
✟252,364.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
I must ask that you retract this statement you made.

"As a result you have no knowledge of what sin is"

I have a very powerful conviction of sin.

Your claim is unfounded.

Your interpretation is a traditional interpretation and has been discarded. Let go of the law.
 
Reactions: ace of hearts
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Put your money where your mouth is and send him a chunk of your blessings.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,397
11,932
Georgia
✟1,099,666.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Is 56:6-8 gentiles (not Jews) are specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping

Any gentile that commits to that covenant is a Jew - Ex 12:48. .

Not true. They are gentiles. "Foreigners". And it does not matter where they live according to Isaiah 56.

“Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the Sabbath
And holds fast My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;
For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the nations.”

Ex 12:48 does NOT say "anyone who keeps from profaning the Sabbath is a Jew". And we all know it.

Ex 12
48 But if a stranger sojourns with you, and celebrates the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near to celebrate it; and he shall be like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person may eat of it.

Nothing at all there about the weekly Sabbath - the Sabbath commandment. As we all can see clearly.

So it is gentiles .. foreigners "all nations" in Isaiah 56 -- not circumcised passover-keeping Jews.

And it is foreigners - "god fearers" in Acts 14 - gentiles that are worshiping in the Synagogue "Sabbath after Sabbath" and asking for MORE Gospel preaching "NEXT Sabbath" when the "entire town" shows up... still gentiles.

Thus it is that gentiles show up in Acts 17:1-4 and in Acts 18:4-6 Sabbath after Sabbath in the synagogue for Gospel preaching.

Not if they join the covenant. They're to be treated as one in the land.

The text you reference only speaks about Passover and circumcision ... nothing at all in it about gentiles in all nations and the weekly Sabbath.

By contrast - the texts I point to - do reference gentiles in all nations and the weekly Sabbath. and we see them not only in Isaiah 56 but also in the NT - in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 -- Sabbath after Sabbath... gentiles, not Jews



I don't live in Israel and therefore I'm not the foreigner of Isa 56.
Isaiah 56 does not say the foreigner lives in Israel. Those gentiles keeping Sabbath in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 were not in Israel, were not circumcised, were not Jews.

Read your quotations again.

Isaiah 56:7
...Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar...

That is a requirement under the old covenant.

You are conflating two different things.

1. The liturgy of worship - before the cross vs after (no matter if the one worshiping is a Jew or gentile)
2. the requirement of a gentile worshiper to ALSO become a circumcised Jew IF they want to also observe the Passover.

Details matter.

Animal sacrifices needed before the cross -- no matter if one was Jew or gentile.

Gentiles needed to be circumcised if they wanted to go to the temple and keep Passover -- no matter if it was before the cross or after.

But none of those gentiles in Acts 13, `17, 18 worshiping in the synagogues every Sabbath are Jews - rather they are called "God fearing gentiles" -- they keep Sabbath but they are not circumcised Jews.

Bible details matter. Nice try though.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,636
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,349.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married

Actually I have mainly post NEW TESTAMENT passages but draw back to the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures to show the origin of what is in the NEW TESTAMENT. Many do not know what the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures mean because they do not know the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures they are referring to.

Everything that we have in the NEW TESTAMENT comes from the OLD TESTAMENT. In fact the bible of JESUS and the APOSTLES was the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures. CIRCUMCISION is not one of the 10 Commandments. It was a SHADOW law from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7.

You mix up your SHADOW laws from God's eternal LAW that give us the KNOWLEDGE GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD COVENANT points to?

Can you see your error here brother?
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,397
11,932
Georgia
✟1,099,666.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Except the law is not in the new covenant,

Until you read it. "This IS the New Covenant... I will write MY LAW on their heart and mind" Jeremiah 31:31-33

BTW I love it that you have setup my perfect slam dunk on that point about 100 times by now on this section of the board. I wish I could send you a gift or something. It is very nice of you to keep doing that. God bless you.

Put your money where your mouth is and send him a chunk of your blessings.

CF blessings or real ones??
 
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Not really. It means only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it. *ROMANS 3:4; ACTS 5:29. So far your only quoting our own words over God's Word.
Yeah I've read your slam c&p post a few times.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,636
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,349.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Yeah I've read your slam c&p post a few times.
Actually I am not C&P I am writing much on the fly. I doubt you read it though as you do not respond to the posts and scriptures that have only been provided in love as a help to you. Although my prayer is that you will prayerfully consider the scriptures provided.
 
Upvote 0

klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,337
Sydney, Australia.
✟252,364.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Your interpretation is unsound.

You follow the tradition of men and separate the ten from the rest of the law. You know that you follow a historical-grammatical reading of the scripture. Yet you accuse others of following the tradition of men.

You are not even aware of what you are doing LGW. I feel sorry for you.

Keep ignoring church history.
 
Reactions: ace of hearts
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
God's WORD does indeed do fine by itself. We should believe and follow it. Looking for sources outside of God's WORD is not an excuse to not BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD.
I didn't say I look for them outside of the Bible. Just reading this forum a person will come across them.
 
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Are you going to make me quote them by post? It will take some work. Your post is identical to many posted to me.
 
Upvote 0

klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,337
Sydney, Australia.
✟252,364.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Your so confused.

A Gentile can never become a Jew, though a Gentile can convert to Judaism. But a Gentile is always forbidden from entering the temple. A Jew is born a Jew, a descendant of Abraham.

A Gentile cannot become a priest in the temple, strictly forbidden.

You need to read the scripture Bob.
 
Reactions: ace of hearts
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,636
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,349.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married

Hi David, my interpretation is not mine. It is God's WORD not mine. I know who I believe. You provide your own words and seek to promote erroneous history for your interpretation of the scriptures. The only traditions I follow is that of God's WORD. Anything outside of God's WORD that contradicts the scriptures is not from God and will lead you away from God.

You are free to do as you will. We all answer only to God come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. JESUS says those who knowingly follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Happy to discuss anything you wish as long as you have scripture to share and you respond to the posts and scriptures that challenge you and disagree with you.
Cool. Let's start with Exodus 20:8-11. Do you want to start by saying you're in compliance? I'll accept personal testimony.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,397
11,932
Georgia
✟1,099,666.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Is 56:6-8 gentiles (not Jews) are specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping

Any gentile that commits to that covenant is a Jew - Ex 12:48. .

Not true. They are gentiles. "Foreigners". And it does not matter where they live according to Isaiah 56.

“Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the Sabbath
And holds fast My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;
For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the nations.”

Ex 12:48 does NOT say "anyone who keeps from profaning the Sabbath is a Jew". And we all know it.

Ex 12
48 But if a stranger sojourns with you, and celebrates the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near to celebrate it; and he shall be like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person may eat of it.

Nothing at all there about the weekly Sabbath - the Sabbath commandment. As we all can see clearly.

So it is gentiles .. foreigners "all nations" in Isaiah 56 -- not circumcised passover-keeping Jews.

And it is foreigners - "god fearers" in Acts 14 - gentiles that are worshiping in the Synagogue "Sabbath after Sabbath" and asking for MORE Gospel preaching "NEXT Sabbath" when the "entire town" shows up... still gentiles.

Thus it is that gentiles show up in Acts 17:1-4 and in Acts 18:4-6 Sabbath after Sabbath in the synagogue for Gospel preaching.

Not if they join the covenant. They're to be treated as one in the land.

The text you reference only speaks about Passover and circumcision ... nothing at all in it about gentiles in all nations and the weekly Sabbath.

By contrast - the texts I point to - do reference gentiles in all nations and the weekly Sabbath. and we see them not only in Isaiah 56 but also in the NT - in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 -- Sabbath after Sabbath... gentiles, not Jews



I don't live in Israel and therefore I'm not the foreigner of Isa 56.
Isaiah 56 does not say the foreigner lives in Israel. Those gentiles keeping Sabbath in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 were not in Israel, were not circumcised, were not Jews.

Read your quotations again.

Isaiah 56:7
...Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar...

That is a requirement under the old covenant.

You are conflating two different things.

1. The liturgy of worship - before the cross vs after (no matter if the one worshiping is a Jew or gentile)
2. the requirement of a gentile worshiper to ALSO become a circumcised Jew IF they want to also observe the Passover.

Details matter.

Animal sacrifices needed before the cross -- no matter if one was Jew or gentile.

Gentiles needed to be circumcised if they wanted to go to the temple and keep Passover -- no matter if it was before the cross or after.

But none of those gentiles in Acts 13, `17, 18 worshiping in the synagogues every Sabbath are Jews - rather they are called "God fearing gentiles" -- they keep Sabbath but they are not circumcised Jews.

Bible details matter. Nice try though.

Your so confused.

A Gentile can never become a Jew, though a Gentile can convert to Judaism.

On the contrary - "god fearing gentiles"

"God-fearers (Greek: φοβούμενος τὸν Θεόν, Phoboumenos ton Theon) or God-worshipers (Greek: θεοσεβής, Theosebes) were a numerous class of gentile sympathizers to Hellenistic Judaism, which observed certain Jewish religious rites and traditions without becoming full converts to Judaism."

Full converts were not called gentiles and could enter the temple.

Ex 12
48 But if a stranger sojourns with you, and celebrates the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near to celebrate it; and he shall be like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person may eat of it


A Gentile cannot become a priest in the temple

A Jew could not become a priest either - they had to be Levites and in fact descendant from Aaron.
 
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
This passage says we're heirs to Abraham's promise. It doesn't say anything about being or becoming Israel. It also says we're all one in Christ Jesus. It also says there is no Jew in Jesus Christ. So you have a colossal failure here.
God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are not by name only but all those in Christ. Those of the FLESH (sinful human nature) are not Abrahams seed but those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God in Christ are God's ISRAEL...
This is personal opinion unsupportable by your passage. Nothing about being or becoming Israel. Coming up short again offering personal unsupportable opinion. What can I say? This passage doesn't make Jews out of gentiles.
In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...
More personal opinion.
God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gentiles are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27. Need more scripture click me?
So resort to fear of not having eternal life. Not a cool approach. Yes I read your posts prior to your linking them anywhere. Two words of Scripture text "among them" defeat all of those posts.
 
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
New player. I'm only skimming posts at the moment because of the hour and the volume.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,636
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,349.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
This passage says we're heirs to Abraham's promise.
Yep you guessed it. This is the promise made to ISRAEL (Jacob)
It doesn't say anything about being or becoming Israel.
You have no part in God's promise if you are not a part of God's ISRAEL as the promise was made to Abraham and his seed who is ISRAEL *HEBREWS 8:10-12.
It also says we're all one in Christ Jesus.
INDEED! JESUS represents the ROOT in ROMANS 11:13-27. Gentiles are now grafted into the ROOT (JESUS) among God's ISRAEL (the branches).

Hope this helps
 
Upvote 0