LDS why is the BOM in King James English

[mmksparbud]

Because for 200 years they have not been able to find it. Digging and digging and digging and they have found nothing that he smuggled in already copied material. Nothing.

Yah, no surprise, kind of hard to do without searching them at the time! Nobody did. Why would they? They believed what he said.

 

[Peter1000]

I did a very prayerful reading of the book---From the 1st 2 sentences, it screamed fake. Not only that it is trying to sound "biblical", but it also sounds very shallow, very childlike---it's like reading the Quran---has no substance. With the bible there are hidden meanings. God is very methodical, He loves math! I loathe it! But I value the mathematicians mind, as I feel their brains work in a more Godly way. Numbers have much meaning throughout the bible. It always slays me when these people find these groups of numbers in so many passages adding up to something interesting---nothing remotely similar in the BOM.
Also, biblical names had meanings. People didn't just make up names for their children. They were a description of that child was. And many times God would change their names because they had grown and their characters had changed under His direction. These are a bunch of meaningless names. I might be wrong, I can't remember and I get the books mixed up, but I don't remember any name having a meaning to it as they do in the bible.

You do not think that believing in Jesus Christ and teaching your siblings and children to believe in Christ is of no substance. Please.

You read this prayerfully and then screamed "fake":
1 I, Nephi, having been born of goodly parents, therefore I was taught somewhat in all the learning of my father; and having seen many afflictions in the course of my days, nevertheless, having been highly favored of the Lord in all my days; yea, having had a great knowledge of the goodness and the mysteries of God, therefore I make a record of my proceedings in my days.

2 Yea, I make a record in the language of my father, which consists of the learning of the Jews and the language of the Egyptians.

You are a rare person. Millions have read the book completely and millions have joined the church just because of the BOM.

 

[He is the way]

I have read most of it.
I know more than I want to know about it.

Before I came to these threads, Mormonism to me was just different Christians who had strange beliefs and allegedly other scripture that came from JS and special glasses. Now, per C.F. Rules, I cannot even say Mormons are Christians. So be it.

At first, I read BOM up to the point somewhere in 2 Nephi where black people were that way because they were CURSED. It disgusted me.
I later read almost all BOM.

I see no reason to read further in it, HITW, or any other JS writings. I do indeed see JS as a shyster, fake and fraud. What part of that do you not understand?

Per the rules of this forum, Nicene Christians ask questions of those of other religions, and they can answer. It is not in your current purview to grill me on my knowledge of BOM, you got that?

I am sorry that you feel that way. Personally I found the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. It has changed my life for the better. I am also grateful for the Bible. It did not turn me away when I found out that Cain and others were cursed by God. I see Joseph Smith as the prophet of God that he was. He did not fake the Book of Mormon, it was given to him by God in the King James English..

 

[Peter1000]

Yah, no surprise, kind of hard to do without searching them at the time! Nobody did. Why would they? They believed what he said.

Are you kidding, from the time he announced he was going to receive gold plates the digging started until this very day. Many dug in his very hometown while he lived there, and they dug when he moved and they still are digging and digging and digging, but nothing. You would think they would stop, but no, they continue to dig all the way up to this day July 28, 2020 they are digging.

 

[Albion]

In my opinion the fact that the Book of Mormon was written in the more difficult language of the King James English in just 65 working days while Joseph Smith was in his 20's is indeed greater proof of it's truthfulness.

Not if he already had a copy of the novel from which he copied the text. That's the most likely answer and certainly is more credible than the account that Joseph Smith himself gave of how the BOM came to be.

 

[mmksparbud]

You do not think that believing in Jesus Christ and teaching your siblings and children to believe in Christ is of no substance. Please.

You read this prayerfully and then screamed "fake":
1 I, Nephi, having been born of goodly parents, therefore I was taught somewhat in all the learning of my father; and having seen many afflictions in the course of my days, nevertheless, having been highly favored of the Lord in all my days; yea, having had a great knowledge of the goodness and the mysteries of God, therefore I make a record of my proceedings in my days.

2 Yea, I make a record in the language of my father, which consists of the learning of the Jews and the language of the Egyptians.

You are a rare person. Millions have read the book completely and millions have joined the church just because of the BOM.

And millions more have read it and found what I did---nothing. God is the author of the bible, He is not the author of the BOM, JS is(except the parts he copied from the KJV).
Yea, verily, me thinks they never really read the bible or they would not have been so easily fooled.

 

[He is the way]

Not if he already had a copy of the novel from which he copied the text. That's the most likely answer and certainly is more credible than the account that Joseph Smith himself gave of how the BOM came to be.

So which novel would that be?

 

[lsume]

And not 1830's American English?

I have read the "rock in the hat" story.

There is a difference between 1769 King James English and 1830's American English. If JS was really "seeing" a "translation" in the hat - what was the purpose of him seeing this outdated English?

My theory is that the whole "translation" stuff is false; that JS made it sound like the KJV so it would "sound holy" - "sound like the Bible" etc.

My purpose is to create awareness among Nicene Christians of how absurd the alleged "translation" process is. If the handful of Mormons here can offer any explanation which will show why the BOM came to be in the language of King James English rather than the 1830's American English, let it come.

I have learned much since 2013 when I first came here as Anto9us. Phoebe and drstevej have brought out much to me, the Mormons themselves have made me see their faith not as some benign variant but rather a true cult of outlandish origins.

So why the King James English and not 1830's American English?
If it was God Almighty driving the "translation" - how did BOM arrive in language from many many decades earlier?

It’s interesting that bring that up. It’s been brought up before and not subtly. I have little doubt that it’s not legitimate but then again I’m not Mormon. I’m a born again Christian who Truly understands what that means and I seem to continue to be taught these lessons even after over 30 years. Our salvation is not dependent on what others believe. Of course we want to share the Truth, not everyone wants to hear it. In fact, The Bible says because they loved not the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness. If the members of that organization seek The Truth, they will find as I hope some have. They may still congregate with members of the church while believing only in the Bible.

 

[mmksparbud]

Are you kidding, from the time he announced he was going to receive gold plates the digging started until this very day. Many dug in his very hometown while he lived there, and they dug when he moved and they still are digging and digging and digging, but nothing. You would think they would stop, but no, they continue to dig all the way up to this day July 28, 2020 they are digging.

Of course they are not going to find any gold plates---there are none. And I was speaking about searching him for any already written material that he smuggled in. I was never talking about the gold plates. Can't find something that doesn't exist.

 

[Peter1000]

Not if he already had a copy of the novel from which he copied the text. That's the most likely answer and certainly is more credible than the account that Joseph Smith himself gave of how the BOM came to be.

Interesting, and any evidence of this novel that he copied the text from? Who wrote the novel? Why has nobody come forth and said, hey, that's my novel, or hey, that's my uncles novel?

You know people have been digging since he before he published the BOM to find out how he came up with a 530 page book, that intertwines, personal lives, with religious themes, military information, governments, culture, clothing, hebrewisms, Jesus Christ, heroes, villains, life on 2 continents, ship building, plants and shrubs, animals, metals, wars, all in a time that just from a scholastic perspective there is very little information about.

so someone would have to write a novel of a family from Jerusalem, leaving and coming by ship to Central America, about the year 600bc, and following that families activities for 1000 years until 400ad, when ond part of the family is wiped off the face of the earth by the other part of the family.

The novel would also include a visit from the resurrected Jesus Christ, where he preached to these people from the house of Israel his gospel and left 12 disciples to teach his flock in the Americas. And when he left them, he promised to return.

So the digging has been done for centuries now, and nothing has been turned up to take away JS story about how the BOM came about. Keep trying though, it is interesting.

 

[Peter1000]

Of course they are not going to find any gold plates---there are none. And I was speaking about searching him for any already written material that he smuggled in. I was never talking about the gold plates. Can't find something that doesn't exist.

Your right, I was talking about special notes, or other novels or anything that would help JS come up with the BOM, but nothing has turned up because, again you are right, you can't find something that doesn't exist.

 

[Albion]

We all know that it's not the case that "nothing has turned up." Rather, it would be more correct to say that there is a longstanding dispute as to which source is the one from which the BOM was apparently taken.

 

[mmksparbud]

I am sorry that you feel that way. Personally I found the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. It has changed my life for the better. I am also grateful for the Bible. It did not turn me away when I found out that Cain and others were cursed by God. I see Joseph Smith as the prophet of God that he was. He did not fake the Book of Mormon, it was given to him by God in the King James English..

So which novel would that be?

Some different opinions on that
Where Did Joseph Smith Get His Ideas for the Book of Mormon?

There has also been much said about him using the Apocrypha for a lot of the book.
There was, of course, the Spaulding book.


This is a long list of absurdities in the BOM

Absurdity in the Book of Mormon

 

[mmksparbud]

Your right, I was talking about special notes, or other novels or anything that would help JS come up with the BOM, but nothing has turned up because, again you are right, you can't find something that doesn't exist.

Yep---no Gold plates---they don't exist.

 

[He is the way]

Some different opinions on that
Where Did Joseph Smith Get His Ideas for the Book of Mormon?

There has also been much said about him using the Apocrypha for a lot of the book.
There was, of course, the Spaulding book.


This is a long list of absurdities in the BOM

Absurdity in the Book of Mormon

The Spalding book turned out to be nothing like the Book of Mormon. It seems people like to believe opinions. Here is a list of Absurdities in the Bible.

Absurdities of the Bible

 

[Lazarus Short]

The Spalding book turned out to be nothing like the Book of Mormon. It seems people like to believe opinions. Here is a list of Absurdities in the Bible.

Absurdities of the Bible

So...the gloves come off.

 

[Peter1000]

We all know that it's not the case that "nothing has turned up." Rather, it would be more correct to say that there is a longstanding dispute as to which source is the one from which the BOM was apparently taken.

Which one was it? Not one of the sources are even close to the end BOM product. There may be a general overarching theme in one that echoes the BOM narrative, but is nothing as to the details and religious themes of the BOM. There are probably hundreds of books now days that echo the BOM.

Remember, JS was not the only one going about saying that we needed to get back to the original Church of Jesus Christ or that Israelite's had populated the U.S. Lots of people were saying it, so the overarching thought that there were Israelite's in the Americas was not original with JS. But nobody but JS came out with a book that was so daring and bold as to capture the attention of the public now for 200 years.

It is certainly original in its details and total story line and its testimony of Jesus Christ.

I am reading the BOM for the unth time, and it is still interesting to me, and I learn something new everytime I read it. I see it from another angle or something jumps out from on the page that I can't remember reading before.

It is the same thing with the Bible too. Same experience.

 

[Peter1000]

Yep---no Gold plates---they don't exist.

Many people say they saw the golden plates, besides the 3 and the 8. So, since you were not around then, I'm not sure you are capable of saying much.

 

[Peter1000]

So...the gloves come off.

I believe the spaulding manuel had some roman soldiers coming to America but that is not an original thought either.

I believe when the spaulding manuel was found, there was a rush to see if any names in the BOM were also found in the sm, but alas, there were none. So except for a coming from the old world to the new world motif, the sm turned out to be a dud for digging up dirt on JS.

So go at it and bring us something we have not heard about 50 years ago about the sm.

 

[lsume]

And not 1830's American English?

I have read the "rock in the hat" story.

There is a difference between 1769 King James English and 1830's American English. If JS was really "seeing" a "translation" in the hat - what was the purpose of him seeing this outdated English?

My theory is that the whole "translation" stuff is false; that JS made it sound like the KJV so it would "sound holy" - "sound like the Bible" etc.

My purpose is to create awareness among Nicene Christians of how absurd the alleged "translation" process is. If the handful of Mormons here can offer any explanation which will show why the BOM came to be in the language of King James English rather than the 1830's American English, let it come.

I have learned much since 2013 when I first came here as Anto9us. Phoebe and drstevej have brought out much to me, the Mormons themselves have made me see their faith not as some benign variant but rather a true cult of outlandish origins.

So why the King James English and not 1830's American English?
If it was God Almighty driving the "translation" - how did BOM arrive in language from many many decades earlier?

Something that I didn’t mention is when the head of the church prophesied incorrectly the winner of the presidential election proclaiming a Mormon victor if you recall?