Why is slavery wrong?

[drich0150]

So you would support slavery if the slaves were treated well?

I don't understand why so many Christians make apologies for the Biblical form of slavery by saying it wasn't like Southern slavery, as if that makes it better.

Because again "Slavery" in of itself is not a sin or evil. It is what men do or give themselves license to do in the name of slavery makes it evil. Your feelings on slavery has only been afforded to you by hundreds of years of the western world's economy built on the backs of slaves. Without their foundational efforts in building the western world, we would all have a different view on slavery, because their would be no middle or lower income families. we would look like alot of the second and third world countries who did not employ slavery in the past. Civilization is a costly luxury that most who live in it, don't understand it or appreciate what it take to build what most perceive as basic human rights.

What should countries and governments do with people that it can't afford to put on welfare, house, feed, clothe? What if their economies won't allow for monetary compensation? what then? Should employers not be held to any type of accountability not be forced to compensate those who work for him? At the same time should an employee/servant not be held to any type of standard or be held accountable for what he has been given?
This is the type of slavery you condemn.

Saying slavery is always, and was always a bad thing is, is an emotional argument grounded in pride, and foolish popular thought. Granted it is not the best situation imaginable especially give man's track record, but this is also true of how the western world has built it economies today. We have abolished the term "slavery" and that seems to be enough for people like you, to not look at the indentured servitude the upper classes have over the lower. Or how people are bound to governments for their survival.

The only difference between now and then is that todays "slaves" do not produce a commodity consumed by the general population. Those who are slaves to their governments produce a human commodity. These people are the ones who fill out our armies, they do the nasty hard laborious work rich people do not want to do, and even those who do not think they are conforming to societies demand for them, they wind up filling up our prisons, which BTW is a multi trillion dollar a year business. The rich gets richer no matter what the poor do.

All the bad things of slavery is alive and well, but unlike slavery outlined in the OT their isn't and God demanding accountability for the slaves of today. You have been fooled into thinking we are all free, you like most have bought into the idea that you enjoy true freedom. In truth you have no idea what true freedom is. You have been given a definition of "freedom" by the way of your "education" and you seem to be very happy with it.

Brother, if you hate god then fine, God allows you the freedom in this life to do so. but if you hate slavery then learn to identify it no matter how it is presented, don't just blindly follow your societies idea's of slavery. Learn more about it, embrace all of it then sift sin and evil from it. Once you do you will find that "slavery" or at least what you believe to be slavery is still alive and well today, just without anyone to monitor the sins and evil of the men who enslave nations..

 

[razeontherock]

Nooj, you say you don't understand and then go on to say anybody supporting it merely compares it to other cultures of the time. That's simply not true; look at Hentenza's concise reply.

 

[Nooj]

Please do go on. I'm very interested in what you found out.

Okay.

Ancient Israel, like all other ancient Near Eastern societies, had various forms of slavery. There was enslavement of war captives, the buying of slaves from foreign lands who could then be permanently enslaved, female slaves could be used as concubines, people could be made into slaves as punishment for crimes like theft, or because of monetary debt.

And debt slavery in itself isn't so nice either. Family members were sold into slavery (Nehemiah 5:3-5) to cover the costs, which is hardly fair. And like I mentioned, if you sold your daughter into slavery, she could be used for sexual purposes. All of what I mentioned is in the Bible, and can be found in other Near Eastern laws, like the Code of Hammurabi. There are English translations of it out, I suggest reading it.

 

[Dragons87]

Okay.

Ancient Israel, like all other ancient Near Eastern societies, had various forms of slavery. There was enslavement of war captives, the buying of slaves from foreign lands who could then be permanently enslaved, female slaves could be used as concubines, people could be made into slaves as punishment for crimes like theft, or because of monetary debt.

And debt slavery in itself isn't so nice either. Family members were sold into slavery (Nehemiah 5:3-5) to cover the costs, which is hardly fair. And like I mentioned, if you sold your daughter into slavery, she could be used for sexual purposes. All of what I mentioned is in the Bible, and can be found in other Near Eastern laws, like the Code of Hammurabi. There are English translations of it out, I suggest reading it.

Interesting. Did the other Near Eastern societies' laws include provisions for the release of slaves every 6 years? Or a ban on kidnapping others for slavery?

 

[lawtonfogle]

Interesting. Did the other Near Eastern societies' laws include provisions for the release of slaves every 6 years? Or a ban on kidnapping others for slavery?

Why does it matter? These are the rules God set up. To compare them to other culture of the time, and not against an absolute standard, is to say God is pro-cultural relativism.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Okay. So, in your view, what makes some forms of slavery bad and some forms of slavery good?

Mostly a question of did they consent to it or not (thought consent can be indirectly given).

Easily a criminal consents to being enslaved in prison by their breaking the law, assuming they are mentally capable (if not, they need to go to a mental ward instead of prison). A person can sell themselves into slavery if they consent to the contract.

But, a child born to a slave must be free, because they did not consent (and even if they did, the consent of a child doesn't count because they are a child).

Now, this is assuming good laws. Any punishment for a bad/unfair/unjust law is wrong, including enslavement in the form of prison.



Now, the big iffy part here is the consent to selling yourself into slavery, because a lot of people will consent to contracts without fully understanding them. But this isn't merely a question of slavery, but of consent in general. Does willfully ill-informed consent count? And that is a question I haven't answered yet. As such, to be safe rather than sorry, until that question is answered, there should be a general ban on selling oneself into slavery.

Of course, there is another question of what is the maximum that one is allowed to give up in a contract.

 

[Nooj]

Interesting. Did the other Near Eastern societies' laws include provisions for the release of slaves every 6 years? Or a ban on kidnapping others for slavery?

I'm glad you asked that. The Bible itself offers two ways that Israelite debt slaves could be freed, one was in the Jubilee year, which was every 50 year, another was every 7 years. They don't mesh with each other, which is why many Biblical scholars think that different portions of the Bible (in this case, Leviticus and Deuteronomy respectively) were written by different people. I've also read that there is no evidence that either the Jubilee year or the 7th year freeing ever took place in reality.

Okay, back to your question. In the Code of Hammurabi, it states that slaves are to be released in half the time that the Bible stipulates. The Code says:

117. If any one fail to meet a claim for debt, and sell himself, his wife, his son, and daughter for money or give them away to forced labor: they shall work for three years in the house of the man who bought them, or the proprietor, and in the fourth year they shall be set free.

The Bible says in Deuteronomy 15:12:

12 If a fellow Hebrew, a man or a woman, sells himself to you and serves you six years, in the seventh year you must let him go free.

Go Babylon! Also, for kidnappers. Both the Code of Hammurabi and the Bible condemn a kidnapper to death.

 

[razeontherock]

Why does it matter?

It matters quite a bit. Look at the laws G-d set up! They're quite distinct.

 

[Nooj]

Yes, I do. What did you expect them to do? They had no city services like food stamps, medicare, etc. Those that had nothing or that owed money to others that they could not pay chose to become slaves to survive. The bible teaches to treat them gracefully, to pay them their wages, to feed them, to clothe them, and to treat them with love and respect. Nothing wrong with that.

Do you find anything wrong with the idea of a person being the property of another person?

 

[Hentenza]

Do you find anything wrong with the idea of a person being the property of another person?

Not in biblical times because they were taken care of.

BTW- Do you ever find yourself thinking that you are a slave to your situations including your job?

 

[Dragons87]

Why does it matter? These are the rules God set up. To compare them to other culture of the time, and not against an absolute standard, is to say God is pro-cultural relativism.

I think God is pro-cultural relativism. He is absolute, but it doesn't mean that he doesn't favour cultural diversity.

I'm glad you asked that. The Bible itself offers two ways that Israelite debt slaves could be freed, one was in the Jubilee year, which was every 50 year, another was every 7 years. They don't mesh with each other, which is why many Biblical scholars think that different portions of the Bible (in this case, Leviticus and Deuteronomy respectively) were written by different people. I've also read that there is no evidence that either the Jubilee year or the 7th year freeing ever took place in reality.

Okay, back to your question. In the Code of Hammurabi, it states that slaves are to be released in half the time that the Bible stipulates. The Code says:

Oh! That is rather interesting indeed. Thanks for sharing.

 

[lawtonfogle]

I think God is pro-cultural relativism. He is absolute, but it doesn't mean that he doesn't favour cultural diversity.

There is a strong difference between cultural diversity and cultural relativism, but if you think God is pro for the latter, then your views are consistent. It is those who think God is fully 100% against cultural relativism, but then use cultural relativism in their arguments, that bug me.

 

[Dragons87]

There is a strong difference between cultural diversity and cultural relativism, but if you think God is pro for the latter, then your views are consistent. It is those who think God is fully 100% against cultural relativism, but then use cultural relativism in their arguments, that bug me.

Hmm, I don't want to derail the thread any further, nor make any kind of character judgments of God I may come to regret.

 

[contango]

If you believe that slavery is wrong (and I sincerely hope you do), can you explain why you think so from a Christian perspective.

I think a lot will hinge on that word "slavery". In our current society when we think of a slave we think of a person, typically of African descent, treated as some kind of sub-human or worse. It's very hard to justify this concept of slavery for reasons which have already been listed.

On the other hand if we look back to Biblical times, Exodus chapter 21 makes a specific provision for a slave to say "I love my master" and choose to stay a slave rather than go free. For a slave to wish such a thing suggests he was being treated well, indeed the Bible gives instructions as to how slaves are to be treated.

The chance to sell oneself into slavery, while it may appear drastic to our western minds, does provide a person to raise some money if they need it while also (in Old Testament times at least) having the assurance of being well treated. In many ways a modern contract of employment isn't hugely unlike historical implementations of slavery.

 

[lawtonfogle]

On the other hand if we look back to Biblical times, Exodus chapter 21 makes a specific provision for a slave to say "I love my master" and choose to stay a slave rather than go free. For a slave to wish such a thing suggests he was being treated well, indeed the Bible gives instructions as to how slaves are to be treated.

You fail to realize that this was the only way to stay with his family in some cases. In other words, the Master had the power to break up certain families, and keep the wife and children but force the slave to leave. The only way the slave could stay with his family is by becoming a slave for life. He may be declaring love for his master with his mouth, but that can be a lie as his actions declare love only for his family.

 

[Hentenza]

Let me remind all participating in this thread that this forum is not a debate forum. Please address the question posed by the OP but do NOT debate each other. From the Forum SoP found here.

Debate
This forum is for discussion of questions with non-Christians. There are some areas of theology in which different Christians may believe differently.
In these cases, we would ask Christians to refrain from debating the matter here. You may point out that there is a differing viewpoint, but please do not use this forum to debate with other Christians. If Christians wish to discuss various doctrines with other Christians, they should do so in the Theology forums.