Why is scripture so fuzzy about heaven and hell?

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I call the "fire insurance" spiritual extortion. Believe or burn.

I read in a Charles Spurgeon sermon that God does use "thundering" to get people to flee from the wrath to come. Actually, in John Bunyan's Pilgrims Progress the first message that Christian received was "Flee from the wrath to come", which showed that he had to get out of the city of destruction. The O.T. story of Lot being rescued by the angels just before Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed is a shadow of us being rescued from the wrath to come through faith in Christ. God got Nineveh to repent by sending Jonah with the message, "In 40 days I am going to destroy the city." So, we might decide to say it is spiritual extortion, but the types and shadows in the Old Testament contradict them.

 

[Cockcrow]

your worm never dies in Hell Jesus was absolutely clear, you will burn and will never cease to exist it is for eternity. Hell is described by Jesus as fire and brimstone, eternal torment, there are many torments in Hell burning is one but there is the no hope (you're never getting out) regret as you replay all the sins you did on your life on Earth, there are many torments in Hell. The Rich man wanted one drop of water to cool his tongue, but he never got it and will never get it. the screaming (weeping wailing, gnashing of teeth) from the billions of lost souls burning forever, imagine the smell of burning sulfur, Jesus was clear on the reality of Hell and the reason for it being created. Jesus said your worm doesn't die the torment never ends and you are on fire forever, no rest day or night it is eternal that's it. the Bible isn't fuzzy one way or the other on the subject of Hell, Jesus said: Hell exists, it's eternal, and most people will go there immediately after physical body death. that is what his word says. The devil makes it fuzzy by denying what Jesus said and putting doubt in peoples minds that what Jesus said about Hell isn't true.

now you may not like it and might not want to believe Jesus own words, but that doesn't change the truth of Jesus Christ. really we shouldn't be offended by Hell, but Satan has conditioned people to believe in a false God who doesn't send anyone to Hell, never punishes anyone, tolerates all kinds of evil and wickedness and doesn't care or do anything about it, anyone can do whatever they want. Satan is a liar and comes as an angel of light. people think they are right and good rejecting the reality of Hell, but this is a lie, and Satan is the father of lies. Jesus is the truth, his words are true, Hell is real Jesus was clear.

people just don't want to accept Jesus and the reality of his message today, when you read the Bible you see Jesus saying their worm dieth not, Hell being eternal fire, the wicked being punished forever, over and over he warns and yet people will will still find a thousand reasons not to believe in Jesus words about Hell and sin and will call people who believe in Jesus literal words evil for preaching about the reality of the place called Hell. if sharing the truth of Gods word offends people then so what, better to be offended now and repent than to be burning in Hell for eternity out of ignorance of Gods word. you can choose to not believe in Hell but that doesn't change the reality of it.

 

[Der Alte]

But I'm talking about scripture, where the word "hell" doesn't appear ( we have Sheol, Hades, Tartarus etc instead, all of which carry a different meaning), and neither does "eternal punishment" (Jesus said "kolasis aionios" which means an age-lasting correction). I'm not talking about (most but by no means all) English translations of scripture as I know you're aware from previous lectures sorry discussions.

Nonsense! Of course the English word "Hell" does not occur in the Hebrew OT or the Greek NT. However, I have repeatedly shown from Jewish sources, The Jewish Encyclopedia, The Encyclopedia Judaica and The Talmud which have not been refuted, that among the Jews before and during the time of Jesus there was a significant belief in a place of unending fiery punishment which the Jews called both "Ge Hinnom" and "Sheol" which were written in the 225 BC LXX and the NT as "Gehenna" and "hades." And which the Jews equated with the western word "hell."
Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online

 

[Hmm]

Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online

I clicked on your link and near the end of the opening page I learnt this:

"Three classes of men do not see the face of hell: those that live in penury, those suffering with intestinal catarrh, and those that are pressed by their creditors ('Er. 41b). It would seem that the expressions "doomed to hell" and "to be saved from hell" must be interpreted hyperbolically"

As you're recommending this link, perhaps that's what you need to do.

 

[Hmm]

your worm never dies in Hell Jesus was absolutely clear, you will burn and will never cease to exist it is for eternity. Hell is described by Jesus as fire and brimstone, eternal torment, there are many torments in Hell burning is one but there is the no hope (you're never getting out) regret as you replay all the sins you did on your life on Earth, there are many torments in Hell. The Rich man wanted one drop of water to cool his tongue, but he never got it and will never get it. the screaming (weeping wailing, gnashing of teeth) from the billions of lost souls burning forever, imagine the smell of burning sulfur, Jesus was clear on the reality of Hell and the reason for it being created. Jesus said your worm doesn't die the torment never ends and you are on fire forever, no rest day or night it is eternal that's it. the Bible isn't fuzzy one way or the other on the subject of Hell, Jesus said: Hell exists, it's eternal, and most people will go there immediately after physical body death. that is what his word says. The devil makes it fuzzy by denying what Jesus said and putting doubt in peoples minds that what Jesus said about Hell isn't true.

now you may not like it and might not want to believe Jesus own words, but that doesn't change the truth of Jesus Christ. really we shouldn't be offended by Hell, but Satan has conditioned people to believe in a false God who doesn't send anyone to Hell, never punishes anyone, tolerates all kinds of evil and wickedness and doesn't care or do anything about it, anyone can do whatever they want. Satan is a liar and comes as an angel of light. people think they are right and good rejecting the reality of Hell, but this is a lie, and Satan is the father of lies. Jesus is the truth, his words are true, Hell is real Jesus was clear.

people just don't want to accept Jesus and the reality of his message today, when you read the Bible you see Jesus saying their worm dieth not, Hell being eternal fire, the wicked being punished forever, over and over he warns and yet people will will still find a thousand reasons not to believe in Jesus words about Hell and sin and will call people who believe in Jesus literal words evil for preaching about the reality of the place called Hell. if sharing the truth of Gods word offends people then so what, better to be offended now and repent than to be burning in Hell for eternity out of ignorance of Gods word. you can choose to not believe in Hell but that doesn't change the reality of it.

Just out of interest, where did you learn all this stuff? Was it from your church or your reading of the Bible or of books and websites? What's the main source?

 

[Saint Steven]

I read in a Charles Spurgeon sermon that God does use "thundering" to get people to flee from the wrath to come. Actually, in John Bunyan's Pilgrims Progress the first message that Christian received was "Flee from the wrath to come", which showed that he had to get out of the city of destruction. The O.T. story of Lot being rescued by the angels just before Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed is a shadow of us being rescued from the wrath to come through faith in Christ. God got Nineveh to repent by sending Jonah with the message, "In 40 days I am going to destroy the city." So, we might decide to say it is spiritual extortion, but the types and shadows in the Old Testament contradict them.

What about the restorations we read about?
Sodom and Gomorrah, Egypt, Elam, Ammon and Moab, Edom.

The restoration of Sodom and Gomorrah from "eternal" fire

Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Zephaniah 2:9
Therefore, as surely as I live,”
declares the Lord Almighty,
the God of Israel,
“surely Moab will become like Sodom,
the Ammonites like Gomorrah—
a place of weeds and salt pits,
a wasteland forever.
The remnant of my people will plunder them;
the survivors of my nation will inherit their land.”

Ezekiel 16:53
“‘However, I will restore the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters and of Samaria and her daughters, and your fortunes along with them,

Edom
Edom was an ancient kingdom in Transjordan located between Moab to the northeast, the Arabah to the west and the Arabian Desert to the south and east. Most of its former territory is now divided between Israel and Jordan.

The destruction of Edom uses the same exaggerated language descriptions as hell in the Bible. Yet none of it lasted forever as it clearly says. And you can certainly pass through it today. For this prophecy to be taken literally it would need to be a smoking tar pit today with a bypass to get around it. Compare verse ten below. (Revelation 14:11)

Isaiah 34:8-11
For the Lord has a day of vengeance,
a year of retribution, to uphold Zion’s cause.
9 Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch,
her dust into burning sulfur;
her land will become blazing pitch!
10 It will not be quenched night or day;
its smoke will rise forever.
From generation to generation it will lie desolate;
no one will ever pass through it again.
11 The desert owl and screech owl will possess it;
the great owl and the raven will nest there.
God will stretch out over Edom
the measuring line of chaos
and the plumb line of desolation.

 

[Der Alte]

I clicked on your link and near the end of the opening page I learnt this:
"Three classes of men do not see the face of hell: those that live in penury, those suffering with intestinal catarrh, and those that are pressed by their creditors ('Er. 41b). It would seem that the expressions "doomed to hell" and "to be saved from hell" must be interpreted hyperbolically"
As you're recommending this link, perhaps that's what you need to do.

Typical disingenuous deflection and evasion. You skim a several pages long encyclopedia entry and quote 2 sentences and pretend that is all the article said. But there was a significant belief in a place of eternal fiery punishment and the Jews referred to it as both Gehinnom and sheol, written as Gehenna and Hades in the 225 BC LXX and the NT. And according to the Jews "Gehenna" and "Hades" corresponds to the English word "hell." Game, set, match!

 

[Hmm]

Game, set, match!

That's the trouble with you tennis types: love means nothing to you.

 

[Der Alte]

That's the trouble with you tennis types: love means nothing to you.

I played tennis only one time in my life. '71ish. With a commanding officer in the Army. Command performance. Did not have a clue what was going on.

 

[Hmm]

I played tennis only one time in my life. '71ish. With a commanding officer in the Army. Command performance. Did not have a clue what was going on.

Maybe just as well. Better than beating the boss!

 

[Jamdoc]

Just out of interest, where did you learn all this stuff? Was it from your church or your reading of the Bible or of books and websites? What's the main source?

Most of the things he was paraphrasing from Jesus in the gospels, or comes from Revelation. Jesus really did describe hell as an unquenchable fire where your "worm dieth not", and Jesus did use the terms "everlasting fire". John did write that the angel said that the people would suffer day and night with no rest.
Jesus was unambiguous about Hell being everlasting suffering and fire and darkness were the main descriptors he used for it.
The only thing not actually coming from the bible was the idea of people thinking about all the sins they did.
That's an elaboration, but a popular one.
But I'm not sure about that one because I can say when you're in a lot of pain you really can't think about things clearly, all you can think about is ... I'm in pain, and I will do anything to make the pain stop. Emotions replace rational thought. Nobody gets in a nasty bike accident with broken bones and while they're screaming waiting for help they're not thinking "oh if only I had not tried to show off riding with no hands jumping off that short staircase!" No, that's all done, all they think is how much pain they're in and how much they need help to not be in pain.
Hell is not prison where you stew in a cell and "think about what you did". Hell is suffering, and there is wailing and gnashing of teeth (sadness, pain, and anger, emotional responses, not logical responss)

but anyway..
on the thread topic I don't see the bible being ambiguous about hell at all
heaven I can understand it as being ambiguous, Jesus had a lot of descriptions of things like banquets, rest, joy, but it was always in terms of "the kingdom of heaven is like..."

Meaning that it is not exactly that.. but Jesus is trying to put into terms that people can understand.
But Jesus never said "hell is like..."
Jesus just said "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire."

 

[Hmm]

Jesus did use the terms "everlasting fire".

Jesus just said "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire.

But He didn't use those words because these are English words. You need to look at the meaning of the words in scripture that have been translated to "everlasting" in most, but not all, English Bibles.This is usually the word "aionios" which means an unspecified and probably long but always a limited duration of time, an "age" (it's where word "eon" is derived from), and fire of course is usually used as an image of painful purification, not a literal fire.

 

[Jamdoc]

But He didn't use those words because these are English words. You need to look at the meaning of the words in scripture that have been translated to "everlasting" in most, but not all, English Bibles.This is usually the word "aionios" which means an unspecified and probably long but always a limited duration of time, an "age" (it's where word "eon" is derived from), and fire of course is usually used as an image of painful purification, not a literal fire.

the rest of scripture also backs it up though, are you going to claim that 'weeping and gnashing of teeth' is some purification?
or "And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night," is some sort of temporal punishment?

 

[Hmm]

are you going to claim that 'weeping and gnashing of teeth' is some purification

No. It's a reference to Gehenna not the fictious Dante's hell you believe in. Gehenna was a rubbish tip outside Jerusalem where the bodies of criminals were also put out. The gnashing of teeth may be a reference to the feral dogs that survived there by eating the disposed waste food and no doubt the bodies. The wailing, I don't know. Perhaps the grieving relatives and friends of the dead criminals.

But who knows? Maybe you're right and it's all caused by Jesus torturing people.

 

[BravoM]

I wonder about the size of the New Jerusalem. (Revelation 21:15 and following)
How big would the earth need to be to support such a structure? And it is taller than our current atmosphere. (dome, as you say?)

If there's a New Heaven and New Earth then God however He does it will be perfectly applicable.

 

[Der Alte]

But He didn't use those words because these are English words. You need to look at the meaning of the words in scripture that have been translated to "everlasting" in most, but not all, English Bibles.This is usually the word "aionios" which means an unspecified and probably long but always a limited duration of time, an "age" (it's where word "eon" is derived from), and fire of course is usually used as an image of painful purification, not a literal fire.

Nonsense. I have conclusively shown multiple times that "aionios" does in fact mean "eternal/everlasting/forever" Using ONLY scripture and my study has never been refuted.
“aionios” occurs 107x in the N.T.
“aionios” is translated world only 40 times in the N.T.[37%]
“aionios” is correctly translated eternal 42 times in the N.T.[39%]
“aionios” is correctly translated everlasting 25 times in the N.T.[23%]
Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times, 26% of the total, Jesus never used “aionios” to refer something common, ordinary or mundane which was not/could not be “eternal.”
= = = = = = = = = =
Juxtapose means, the act or an instance of placing two or more things side by side often to compare or contrast.
In the 10 following verses aionios is defined/described as eternal, everlasting, eternity etc, by paralleling or juxtaposition with other adjectives or descriptive phrases.
= = = = = = = = = =
…..Some people claim that “aionios” never means eternity/eternal/everlasting because it sometimes refer to something which is not eternal, e.g. “world,””age.” etc.
However, “aionios” is never defined/described, by adjectives or descriptive phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, in the New Testament, as in the following 24 verses.
…..Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times. He never used “aionios” to refer to anything common, ordinary or mundane that was not or could not be eternal.
…..In the following ten [10] verses Jesus defines/describes “aionios” as “eternal/forever/everlasting.”

[1] Luke 1:33
(33) And he shall reign [basileusei][Vb] over the house of Jacob for ever; [εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας/lit. unto the eternity [aionas [PlMas] and of his kingdom [basileias][Nn] there shall be no end.[telos] ​

In this verse the reign/basileusei, which is the verb form of the word, is "aionas" and of the kingdom/basileias, the noun form of the same word, "there shall be no end.” “Aionas” by definition here means eternity.

[2] John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever. [εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα/aiona[lit. unto eternity]​

In this verse Jesus juxtaposes “live forever” with “death.” If “live aiona” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aiona” by definition here means “eternity.”

[3] John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [αιωνιον/aionion] life, and they shall never
[εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα/ eis ton aiona][lit. unto eternity] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. ​

In this verse Jesus parallels “aiona” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternallife.”

[4]John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [aionion] life.
[5] John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [aionion] life. ​

In these two verses Jesus parallels “aionion” with “should not perish,” twice! Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.

[6]John 5:24
(24) Verily, verily, [Amen, Amen]I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [aionios] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. ​

In this verse Jesus parallels “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.

[7]John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [aionios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.​

In this verse Jesus juxtaposed aionios life with “shall not see life.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aionios means eternal.

[8]John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never [ου μη/ou mé] thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting [aionios] life.​

In this verse Jesus paralleled aionios with “shall [ου μη/ou mé][fn] never thirst.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aionios means eternal. See footnote [fn] on “ou mé” below.

[9]John 6:27
(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [aionios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. ​

In this verse Jesus contrasted “aionios meat” with “meat that perishes” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aionios means eternal.

[10]John 8:51
(51) Very truly [amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ou mé eis ton aiona][fn] see death."​

In this verse Jesus juxtaposes “unto aion” with “never see death.” By definition “aion” means eternity.

 

[Hmm]

Nonsense. I have conclusively shown multiple times that "aionios" does in fact mean "eternal/everlasting/forever" Using ONLY scripture and my study has never been refuted.
“aionios” occurs 107x in the N.T.
“aionios” is translated world only 40 times in the N.T.[37%]
“aionios” is correctly translated eternal 42 times in the N.T.[39%]
“aionios” is correctly translated everlasting 25 times in the N.T.[23%]
Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times, 26% of the total, Jesus never used “aionios” to refer something common, ordinary or mundane which was not/could not be “eternal.”
= = = = = = = = = =
Juxtapose means, the act or an instance of placing two or more things side by side often to compare or contrast.
In the 10 following verses aionios is defined/described as eternal, everlasting, eternity etc, by paralleling or juxtaposition with other adjectives or descriptive phrases.
= = = = = = = = = =
…..Some people claim that “aionios” never means eternity/eternal/everlasting because it sometimes refer to something which is not eternal, e.g. “world,””age.” etc.
However, “aionios” is never defined/described, by adjectives or descriptive phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, in the New Testament, as in the following 24 verses.
…..Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times. He never used “aionios” to refer to anything common, ordinary or mundane that was not or could not be eternal.
…..In the following ten [10] verses Jesus defines/describes “aionios” as “eternal/forever/everlasting.”

[1] Luke 1:33
(33) And he shall reign [basileusei][Vb] over the house of Jacob for ever; [εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας/lit. unto the eternity [aionas [PlMas] and of his kingdom [basileias][Nn] there shall be no end.[telos] ​

In this verse the reign/basileusei, which is the verb form of the word, is "aionas" and of the kingdom/basileias, the noun form of the same word, "there shall be no end.” “Aionas” by definition here means eternity.

[2] John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever. [εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα/aiona[lit. unto eternity]​

In this verse Jesus juxtaposes “live forever” with “death.” If “live aiona” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aiona” by definition here means “eternity.”

[3] John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [αιωνιον/aionion] life, and they shall never
[εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα/ eis ton aiona][lit. unto eternity] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. ​

In this verse Jesus parallels “aiona” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternallife.”

[4]John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [aionion] life.
[5] John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [aionion] life. ​

In these two verses Jesus parallels “aionion” with “should not perish,” twice! Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.

[6]John 5:24
(24) Verily, verily, [Amen, Amen]I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [aionios] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. ​

In this verse Jesus parallels “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.

[7]John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [aionios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.​

In this verse Jesus juxtaposed aionios life with “shall not see life.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aionios means eternal.

[8]John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never [ου μη/ou mé] thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting [aionios] life.​

In this verse Jesus paralleled aionios with “shall [ου μη/ou mé][fn] never thirst.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aionios means eternal. See footnote [fn] on “ou mé” below.

[9]John 6:27
(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [aionios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. ​

In this verse Jesus contrasted “aionios meat” with “meat that perishes” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aionios means eternal.

[10]John 8:51
(51) Very truly [amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ou mé eis ton aiona][fn] see death."​

In this verse Jesus juxtaposes “unto aion” with “never see death.” By definition “aion” means eternity.

Thank you aionios bot.

 

[Der Alte]

No. It's a reference to Gehenna not the fictious Dante's hell you believe in. Gehenna was a rubbish tip outside Jerusalem where the bodies of criminals were also put out. The gnashing of teeth may be a reference to the feral dogs that survived there by eating the disposed waste food and no doubt the bodies. The wailing, I don't know. Perhaps the grieving relatives and friends of the dead criminals.
But who knows? Maybe you're right and it's all caused by Jesus torturing people.

More internet nonsense. I suggest you research in credible sources.

The traditional explanation that a burning rubbish heap in the Valley of Hinnom south of Jerusalem gave rise to the idea of a fiery Gehenna of judgment is attributed to Rabbi David Kimhi's commentary on Psalm 27:13 (ca. A.D. 1200). He maintained that in this loathsome valley fires were kept burning perpetually to consume the filth and cadavers thrown into it. However, Strack and Billerbeck state that there is neither archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources (Hermann L. Strack and Paul Billerbeck, Kommentar zum Neuen Testament aus Talmud and Midrasch, 5 vols. [Munich: Beck, 1922-56], 4:2:1030). Also a more recent author holds a similar view (Lloyd R. Bailey, "Gehenna: The Topography of Hell," Biblical Archeologist 49 [1986]: 189.
Source, Bibliotheca Sacra / July–September 1992
http://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/ted...Articles/BSac-NT/Scharen-GenenaSyn-Pt1-BS.htm​

There was a trash dump outside Jerusalem but archaeological studies show that it was NOT Gehenna but the next valley over "The Kidron valley."
.....Miqweh of Second Temple Period. ......Jerusalem City-Dump in the Late Second Temple Period, ZDPV, 119/1 (2003),
The chance discovery of an Early Roman city dump (1st century CE) in Jerusalem has yielded for the first time ever quantitative data on garbage components that introduce us to the mundane daily life Jerusalemites led and the kind of animals that were featured in their diet. Most of the garbage consists of pottery shards, all common tableware, while prestige objects are entirely absent. Other significant garbage components include numerous fragments of cooking ovens, wall plaster, animal bones and plant remains. Of the pottery vessels, cooking pots are the most abundant type.
…..Most of the refuse turns out to be “household garbage” originating in the domestic areas of the city, while large numbers of cooking pots may point to the presence of pilgrims. Significantly, the faunal assemblage, which is dominated by kosher species and the clear absence of pigs, set Jerusalem during its peak historical period apart from all other contemporaneous Roman urban centers.
...
Recently, the contemporaneous city-dump was identified on the eastern slope of the south-eastern hill of Jerusalem in the form of a thick mantle (up to 10 m, 200,000 m3 ) (Reich and Shukron 2003). The dump is located roughly 100 m outside and south-east of the Temple Mount on the eastern slope of the Kidron Valley (fig. 1), and extends at least 400 m and is 50–70 m wide. Large amounts of pottery and coins date the dump to the Early Roman period (the 1st century BCE and the 1st century CE up to the destruction of the city by the Romans in 70 CE). A preliminary study of the garbage (Bouchnik, Bar-Oz and Reich 2004; Bouchnik et al. 2005) showed the presence of animal bones.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...udy_of_the_City-Dump_of_Early_Roman_Jerusalem
Jerusalem’s Garbage
The Myth of the Burning Garbage Dump of Gehenna – BiblePlaces.com

 

[Fervent]

But He didn't use those words because these are English words. You need to look at the meaning of the words in scripture that have been translated to "everlasting" in most, but not all, English Bibles.This is usually the word "aionios" which means an unspecified and probably long but always a limited duration of time, an "age" (it's where word "eon" is derived from), and fire of course is usually used as an image of painful purification, not a literal fire.

You argue this based on 1-2 supposed scholars opinions...as if the translators of the Bibles that read "everlasting" or "eternal" are not scholars themselves. Why should those 1-2 scholars opinions take precedence over the vast, vast, majority of scholars both modern and historic, religious and secular?

 

[Der Alte]

Thank you aionios bot.

You are presenting yourself as some kind of expert. Prove me wrong.
More irrefutable evidence that "aionios" means "eternal/everlasting/for ever."
Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church from its inception, 2000 years +/- ago. Who better than the team of native Greek speaking scholars who translated the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB] know the meaning of the Greek words in the NT?

EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [aionios] punishment, [kolasis] but the righteous into eternal life.”
1 Cleenewerck, 1. (Ed.). (2011). The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible: New Testament (Mt 25:45-46). Laurent A. Cleenewerck.
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive​

…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., the second occurrence is 1 John 4:18.

EOB 1 John 4:18 here is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.​

Note the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars who translated the EOB translated “aionios” as “eternal”
The Greek word translated “punishment” in Matt 25:46 is “kolasis.” Some folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction” but according to the EOB Greek scholars it means “punishment.”