Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
That was your answer to this by @Jamdoc "Jesus didn't say "believe in me, or don't, you'll still get to heaven". Does not UR claim that ALL mankind will be saved, the righteous and unrighteous alike, no matter what, even after death? A yes or no answer will suffice.
I asked a question that requires a yes or no answer. Anything other than that I will consider evasion and deflection. But I might be interested in what hoops you will jump through trying to not answer my question.I'll answer in my words if you don't mind.
Christian universalism is Christocentric, as has been explained to you many times, and we can only be saved by acknowledging Christ as Lord.
I asked a question that requires a yes or no answer. Anything other than that I will consider evasion and deflection. But I might be interested in what hoops you will jump through trying to not answer my question.
Does not UR claim that ALL mankind will be saved, the righteous and unrighteous alike, no matter what, even after death? A yes or no answer will suffice.
Sounds like a playground bully.
He can do as he pleases, because there is no way we can stop him.
Why do you think he wants to make us miserable?
Answer if you care to.
You have already gone above and beyond expectations in addressing my questions. If you are done with me, I understand. No worries.
1 Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.
2 (It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.)
3 Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick.
4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
5 Now Jesus loved Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus.
6 When he had heard therefore that he was sick, he abode two days still in the same place where he was.
32 Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
33 When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled.
34 And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.
35 Jesus wept.
36 Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him!
37 And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?
38 Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it.
39 Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.
40 Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
I'm my opinion the first and foremost tenet is that it's not about us and what we want or get or deserve etc.
It's all and only about what God wants, gets and deserves.
Isn't Universalism everyone gets saved so everyone goes to heaven eventually?
Yes but it's not a mindless.conveyer belt of salvation. People have to be saved in just the same way that they have to be in any of the mainstream Christian denominations. The only difference in Universalism is that salvation can be achieved in the next life and it posits that everyone will be saved because deep down it's what everyone wants and God will help them realise this because it's what He wants too.
There are a lot of strawman arguments thrown around about universalism because it's simple message is really hated by some people. There are lots of reasons for this, mainly psychological, but that's a different topic. But if you want to understand.universalism you unfortunately need to be aware of these strawmen so that they can dismissed. I expect some will be posted again in response to this lol. I hope so anyway because it highlights the lack of any solid arguements.
Hebrews 9:27 doesn't really allow for that.
Ultimate Reconciliation means that those who are damned stay in the lake of fire until the sin is purified from them. It takes so long, that their personality is completely erased. The purified soul that God originally breathed out .. is then returned to Him. Souls saved in this manner are like blank slates.Okay, so, what about those who do not believe on Christ.
What happens to them?
How is it "universalism" if it has a condition attached to it?
Care to explain why not? And perhaps quote the verse so that we can easily see what you saying.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
How is that NOT all mankind will be saved, the righteous and unrighteous alike, no matter what, even after death?Yes but it's not a mindless.conveyer belt of salvation. People have to be saved in just the same way that they have to be in any of the mainstream Christian denominations. The only difference in Universalism is that salvation can be achieved in the next life and it posits that everyone will be saved because deep down it's what everyone wants and God will help them realise this because it's what He wants too.
* * *
sorry, mousing over a quoted verse will show you the verse, but it's
I added the verse following to also demonstrate that at His second coming things are kind of settled. It's not He'll appear multiple times unto salvation even after you die.
But just you die... and then you're judged.. and that judgement settles your eternity.
Revelation 20
How is that NOT all mankind will be saved, the righteous and unrighteous alike, no matter what, even after death?
Ultimate Reconciliation means that those who are damned stay in the lake of fire until the sin is purified from them. It takes so long, that their personality is completely erased. The purified soul that God originally breathed out .. is then returned to Him. Souls saved in this manner are like blank slates.
And you believe that the unrighteous dead will be resurrected and without any further ado they will acknowledge Christ as Lord? I know there is absolutely no scripture to support that.I'll answer in my words if you don't mind.
Christian universalism is Christocentric, as has been explained to you many times, and we can only be saved by acknowledging Christ as Lord.
Do you think judgement always has to mean eternal torment? I see no mention of that in these verses, which is why I asked you to quote them, for people at least. The parts you bolded don't seem relevant to your claim.
1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
It's relevant to show that there is an eternal consequence at the judgement. Not you get judged... and then get saved later anyway.
God has wrath against sin, He takes that wrath out in judgement.
The only way out of that wrath, is for that wrath to have been taken out on Christ in your place.
If you say you don't need Christ, God says "fine, then I will hold YOU accountable"
Psalm 32
You're blessed not because of what you did or didn't do, but because God has made a way to not hold you accountable personally for your sins and iniquities.
But if you declare that you will stand on your own deeds... God will show how far short you fall from perfection, and hold you personally accountable for every sin.
Nothing in scripture says that once that judgement has been passed on you, that it will be undone and put on Jesus.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?