Why is satan the bad guy?

[DogmaHunter]

God is not a guy, the satan is not a guy,

They are refered to as "he" and "him". Humans are supposedly created in his image.

What other word would you want me to use to refer to them?

God is the source of all things, there is no other,
so it is not about believing in anyone, but returning to the source.

That doesn't answer my request for an argument that desmonstrates how god is the good guy and satan the bad guy.

 

[DogmaHunter]

One thing I would never do is try to talk sports with a sports fan.
It would take about 5 sentences before anyone could see I didn't have a clue about the subject. So it is with so many, who obviously, have never read the bible in it's entirety for themselves.

If you are talking about me, I can only tell you that I've read the bible from cover to cover twice. And several chapters more then twice.

Which is more bible-reading then most christians I meet in real life have done.

If you actually want an answer to the question, just read the book for yourself. The answer is there.

I did read the book and didn't have my question answered.
Which is why I'm asking the question here. Instead of responding with a one-liner, why not simply explain how god is objectively good and satan bad?

 

[DogmaHunter]

How about when he deceived Adam and Eve, causing the fall of man, bringing death into the world.

It seems to me that that isn't what is said in the book.
Satan convinced them to eat a certain fruit that would give them knowledge of some kind. Yes, god forbid them to eat that fruit. But again, as explained before, if we are going to seriously evaluate this question, you can't simply assume that god is good and therefor are his commandments and restrictions are as well by definition.

That would be assuming the answers before asking the questions.

Also, it was god that doomed human kind for its apparant disobedience to his commands. Satan didn't do that. God did that. God could have chosen to let it slide and NOT doom human kind. But he didn't. God could have chosen to only punish satan, as adam and eve couldn't have known better by definition, but he didn't do that either.

It was god that doomed human kind as a punishment.

Consider it like this: if I rob a store and get caught, then the authorities are the ones that put me in jail. I don't put myself into jail. The authorities could choose to led it slide and don't put me in jail.

It's the authority that decides on the punishment and its the authority that enforces the punishment. It's also the authority that can choose to not enforce a punishment.

Anyone who does that doesn't sound very good. That's just the very beginning of what he's done in human history alone.

Yes, we know. What you fail to explain is how it was a bad thing.
If someone in North Korea starts a rebellion and convinces North Korean citizens to not obey a certain commandment from dictator Kimmy, we celebrate him as a hero. Even if this rebellion results in the execution of people on command of dictator Kimmy. Then they are even called "martyrs".

What I'm asking for is a demonstration or an objective argument that shows how god is good and satan bad. Until now, everything that's being responded here starts with the assumption that god is good and satan bad and then concludes that "god is good and satan bad".

I shouldn't have to explain why that is irrational.

 

[Robban]

They are refered to as "he" and "him". Humans are supposedly created in his image.

What other word would you want me to use to refer to them?



That doesn't answer my request for an argument that desmonstrates how god is the good guy and satan the bad guy.

I know, how else are we to relate?


His finger, Eye, ear, hand etc

Example, Psalms 95:9,

Shall He who implants the ear not hear?
Shall He who forms the Eye not see?

It does not say such things about the satan.

The satan is a servant of God, it is not about a dual, two entities, there is only one God.

The satan is on God,s payroll, it can only go as far as God permits.

The satan is an angel created by God, angels don,t have a free will,

as they are created, so are they.

 

[Aldebaran]

Can I have the verse that says the talking snake was satan, please

“He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years” (Revelation 20:2). “The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him” (Revelation 12:9)

 

[Aldebaran]

It seems to me that that isn't what is said in the book.
Satan convinced them to eat a certain fruit that would give them knowledge of some kind. Yes, god forbid them to eat that fruit. But again, as explained before, if we are going to seriously evaluate this question, you can't simply assume that god is good and therefor are his commandments and restrictions are as well by definition.

He told them in advance that if they ate it, they would die. They ate it, realized they were naked (before God did anything) and were ashamed, and hid from God knowing they had done wrong. Eventually, they died. God was good when He told them NOT to eat the fruit. Satan was bad by deceiving them into doing it anyway.

Consider it like this: if I rob a store and get caught, then the authorities are the ones that put me in jail. I don't put myself into jail. The authorities could choose to led it slide and don't put me in jail.

It's the authority that decides on the punishment and its the authority that enforces the punishment. It's also the authority that can choose to not enforce a punishment.

Now you're talking about the justice of God. If He didn't enforce a punishment, he would not be just. However, right now we have the option of taking refuge in Christ, who accepted that justice in our place. In this way, God is being just, while we at the same time receive mercy.

 

[Robban]

He told them in advance that if they ate it, they would die. They ate it, realized they were naked (before God did anything) and were ashamed, and hid from God knowing they had done wrong. Eventually, they died. God was good when He told them NOT to eat the fruit. Satan was bad by deceiving them into doing it anyway.




Now you're talking about the justice of God. If He didn't enforce a punishment, he would not be just. However, right now we have the option of taking refuge in Christ, who accepted that justice in our place. In this way, God is being just, while we at the same time receive mercy.

He could not have told them in advance, only Adam, because Eve was not yet.

One explanation is, Adam was over protective, by saying, "Do not eat off that tree, don,t even touch it."

He added to God,s Words.

Eve said to the serpent, "No, we must not eat from that tree, not even touch it."
Then said the serpent, "Oh no, etc"

So Eve touched the tree, and did not drop dead, so, maybe Adam Heard wrong, so she ate of the tree, the fruit , they did not die, not the same day, Adam died at the age of 930.

Which is also intresting because, for the Lord one day is as a thousand years,
and a thousand years as one day, (paraphrased).

Just one angle.

 

[TheStraightener]

“He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years” (Revelation 20:2). “The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him” (Revelation 12:9)

I'm not seeing the link with Genesis here.

Was there a Dragon in the garden too?

 

[Aldebaran]

I'm not seeing the link with Genesis here.

Was there a Dragon in the garden too?

Read my post again, this time continue to the point just 3 words after the word "dragon". There, you will see the word "serpent". Following that, you will see where it is also mentioned that the serpent is known as Satan or the devil.

 

[TheStraightener]

Read my post again, this time continue to the point just 3 words after the word "dragon". There, you will see the word "serpent". Following that, you will see where it is also mentioned that the serpent is known as Satan or the devil.

There are many many references to serpents in the bible. Is Satan all of them? Or just when it suits you

 

[Aldebaran]

There are many many references to serpents in the bible. Is Satan all of them? Or just when it suits you

I didn't write the bible. I'm just going by what it says.

 

[TheStraightener]

So all the serpents mentioned are Satan then?

 

[Aldebaran]

So all the serpents mentioned are Satan then?

If used in a parable, that is almost always the case. Just as the fig tree, when used in parables, referred to the nation of Israel. Of course that doesn't mean that every fig tree is the nation of Isreal either.

 

[St_Worm2]

Everyone says Satan is the bad guy but what did he actually do? And at what point does he ever do anything against anyone else on the sheer scale that God did?

The Lord tells us in John 8:44 that Satan is a "liar" and that he is, in fact, the "father of lies". He is also called a "murderer from the beginning", because it was through his lies/deceptions that our progenitors were persuaded to disobey the one, single command God had given them to keep (thus causing the Fall of the mankind and the immediate spiritual and eventual physical death of the entire human race).

Separation from God, aging, sickness and death were not part of God's original plan for us. He made us "upright" and in His very "image", and His intension was that we would live with and enjoy Him forever and never die, physically or spiritually. Satan, the murderer of our race, changed all that when he seduced Eve (and through her, Adam) into believing his lies rather than God's truth. I hope this begins to help explain why Satan was and is understood as being the "bad guy" in all this.

Yours and His,
David

 

[Robban]

Too often it is the blame game, but we cannot blame anyone else for our choices, if we have freedom of choice, then there is a possibility to make the wrong choice,
the satans mission is to bring a person to make a choice between good and bad, if the person is presented with various choices, chances are there is also a temptation to choose wrong,
temptation does not come from outside, it comes from the inside, from our own evil inclination, in that way the satan, devil is within each and everyone, though at different levels.

The more "spiritual" one becomes, the more challenges one will have.

NT, Matt 4:1-11, James 1:12:15,

just intresting verses relating to the evil inclination, the satan, devil.

Don,t blame the satan, devil for the choices we make, it only led us to those choices, we have the ability to change our Destiny, through our choices.

 

[poolerboy0077]

People in this thread are really having a difficult time understanding the fallacy of begging the question.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I know, how else are we to relate?


His finger, Eye, ear, hand etc

Example, Psalms 95:9,

Shall He who implants the ear not hear?
Shall He who forms the Eye not see?

It does not say such things about the satan.

The satan is a servant of God, it is not about a dual, two entities, there is only one God.

The satan is on God,s payroll, it can only go as far as God permits.

The satan is an angel created by God, angels don,t have a free will,

as they are created, so are they.

You are just asserting who has the authority (through the concept of "might makes right", among all things...). You are not demonstrating who is good and who isn't, nore are you even trying to form an argument one way or the other.

Dictator Kimmy in North Korea has authority as well. Does that make him good? Does might make right?

 

[DogmaHunter]

He told them in advance that if they ate it, they would die

Kim Jung also threatens the North Korean citizens with heavy punishment if they disobbey his rules. This doesn't make the rules intrinsicly "good".

God was good when He told them NOT to eat the fruit.

Why? You are just asserting it. Explain in real words why it was good to forbid them to eat from the fruit.

Satan was bad by deceiving them into doing it anyway.

That is not at all clear to me. Furthermore, I don't see how it was "deceiving". He merely encouraged eating the fruit and disobbeying god's commandments. How is that "deceiving"? To deceive someone means to promise one thing and do another. Encouraging a rebellion and/or disobedience to a perceived authority is not that.

Now you're talking about the justice of God.

No. I'm making the point that in the story, it is GOD that condemns human kind. It was his action and his choice. It was claimed in this thread that humans and/or satan condemned mankind. This is false. God did that.

If He didn't enforce a punishment, he would not be just

According to his own rules. If a north korean citizen rebels against kim jung by, for example, not having the haircut that Kim Jung commands every north korean citizen to have, is it then "just" for Kim Jung to enforce punishment for that fact?

That's what you are saying. To call it "just" ASSUMES that the rules are just and that one is justified in enforcing those rules. So you again skipped a step. How are the rules themselves just? You need to be able to support that before being able to say that enforcing those rules (including consequence for not following them) is a just thing to do.

However, right now we have the option of taking refuge in Christ

Which is the very opposite of "justice". "Justice" and "mercy / forgiveness" can not coexist. Since mercy/forgiveness is the suspension of justice.
However, that's irrelevant to the subject at hand.

In this way, God is being just, while we at the same time receive mercy.

False. Any mercy at all is the suspension of justice (assuming the rules themselves are just).

 

[Robban]

You are just asserting who has the authority (through the concept of "might makes right", among all things...). You are not demonstrating who is good and who isn't, nore are you even trying to form an argument one way or the other.

Dictator Kimmy in North Korea has authority as well. Does that make him good? Does might make right?

I don,t see how you have come to that conclusion.

I see a forum as a Place where people gather and share,

it can be enjoyable at times even.

Un fortunately there are those who come with nothing to share,
they just demand, demand, demand, mostly athiests, whatever that is.

So, I brought something to share,

Take it or leave it.

I will see myself to the door.

 

[Blessedj01]

Satan is the bad guy because he wants you dead, has planned to destroy you and ruin your future and wants to kill every single human there is and do the same to them.

Satan right now, is telling you to side with him (a created angel who refused to even do his job and decided to kill all of gods children) over the one who is good, who made all creation.

That makes him the bad guy.