Why is satan the bad guy?

[Autumnleaf]

The winners write the history books.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

After reading the bible I still can't quite understand why satan is the bad guy? Compare his actions to what God did and he seems quite docile.

If you read atheist websites alone you will not get a good and balanced view of the bible. You need to understand scripture. In regard to your question below:

There are plenty of accounts of god killing people, sending people to kill others and their children, wiping out the entire planet in the flood etc.

God only ordered the killing of people, when those nations did things like sacrifice their children in fire to false gods. I.e. in the attack on Canaan he first showed his mighty power through Moses, the people of the land that He invaded knew what had happened in Egypt according to the bible, they had heard of the mighty miracles. God told Moses the only reason why the land was being invaded was due to their customs, specifically of immorrality and child sacrifice were mentioned in the bible.

Any nation that wants to do such evil that they sacrifice their own children, and not repent when they see mighty miracles, in my opinion deserves to be removed from the earth. See Christian view of War, the Death Penalty and other topics for more detail on this topic.

As for the story of Noah it is my opinion that God did not send all the people who dies in the flood to hell. Read my document on what the bible says about this issue at Why did God us a flood in the day of Noah

Everyone says satan is the bad guy but what did he actually do? And at what point does he ever do anything against anyone else on the sheer scale that God did?

I look forward to your responses

As for what did he do, no one really knows, but God is very merciful, if he is destined for hell he deserves it.

 

[St_Worm2]

You would have a point, but satan was never actually intended to be taken as a real being. Satan was meant to represent evil in general. It was in later years that people started believing that satan was a real creature like god.

Hi NH, Job, which I believe is the earliest book of the OT, hardly speaks of "Satan" as representative of "evil in general". Take this passage for instance:

6 One day the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.
7 The LORD asked Satan, “Where have you come from?”
“From roaming through the earth,” Satan answered Him, “and walking around on it.”
8 Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? No one else on earth is like him, a man of perfect integrity, who fears God and turns away from evil.”
9 Satan answered the LORD, “Does Job fear God for nothing?
10 Haven’t You placed a hedge around him, his household, and everything he owns? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land.
11 But stretch out Your hand and strike everything he owns, and he will surely curse You to Your face.”
12 “Very well,” the LORD told Satan, “everything he owns is in your power. However, you must not lay a hand on Job himself.” So Satan left the LORD’s presence. Job 1:6-12​

Considering this, it seems to me that the Author of the Bible, right from the start, intended Satan to be taken as a real being, not simply as a personification of "evil".

Finally, while people do believe that Satan is a real creature, he will never be like God, who is certainly real, but will never be a "creature", right ..

Yours and His,
David

 

[BobRyan]

After reading the bible I still can't quite understand why satan is the bad guy? Compare his actions to what God did and he seems quite docile.

There are plenty of accounts of god killing people, sending people to kill others and their children, wiping out the entire planet in the flood etc.

Everyone says satan is the bad guy but what did he actually do? And at what point does he ever do anything against anyone else on the sheer scale that God did?

I look forward to your responses

Satan caused the fall of 1/3 of the loyal angels. Rev 12. The loss of 1/3 of the Angel race.

Satan started war in heaven. Rev 12.

Satan caused the fall of Adam and Eve - the loss of the entire human race.

Satan filled the heart of Judas and drove the people to crucify Christ.

Satan is called "the god of this world" 2 Cor 4 -- and he himself claims "the world is his and he gives it to whom he wishes" Matt 4.

Satan leads Angels and humans to reject the source of life - and to come under condemnation as law breakers - as rebels against God.

Satan lead the humans of Noah's day to reject the Noah message and to kill each other filling the world with violence.

No Angel or human was ever "better off" for having followed one of Satan's lousy schemes.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[FireDragon76]

But as God is all knowing and all powerful... Then he would have known this would happen before he created Satan.. and therefore made him the way he was and knowing full well what he would do?

How can God be responsible for the free choices of a creature? Foreknowledge doesn't necessarily imply responsibility in the causal sense.

In a sense, God did take responsibility for Satan, which is why Christians believe Jesus Christ came into the world- to "destroy the works of the evil one".

In the Christian worldview, Satan, and his compatriots, inspires every evil act in the world, directly or indirectly. Satan is basically a demon. You won't find this explicitly listed in the usual Bible (the ones Protestants tend to use), but you will find more information about the demonological beliefs of Second Temple Judaism by reading works such as the Apocrpyha/Deuterocanonical books.

 

[tdidymas]

After reading the bible I still can't quite understand why satan is the bad guy? Compare his actions to what God did and he seems quite docile.

There are plenty of accounts of god killing people, sending people to kill others and their children, wiping out the entire planet in the flood etc.

Everyone says satan is the bad guy but what did he actually do? And at what point does he ever do anything against anyone else on the sheer scale that God did?

I look forward to your responses

Satan is the bad guy because his purpose is evil, whereas God's purpose is good (Rom. 8:28 - at least good toward those who love Him). Satan's work is to steal, kill, and destroy; but God's work is good toward those who are His people. Satan wants to destroy the people of God; but God destroys evildoers who would otherwise harm His people. God also uses Satan and evildoers to hurt God's people (even kill them) for the higher good - to chastise them to force them to repentance. Therefore, God is good because His purpose is good, and Satan is bad because his purpose is bad. Do you need more scriptural detail?
TD

 

[madaz]

Are you suggesting Satan might be the good one? Do have any evidence that this is the case? If not, then it appears that the original assertion that Satan is the evil one stands on its own.

Study the biblical evidence, compare the body count and compare the reasons given for all the murders.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Are you suggesting Satan might be the good one? Do have any evidence that this is the case? If not, then it appears that the original assertion that Satan is the evil one stands on its own.

You aren't seriously asking for evidence are you?

 

[Robban]

One could say that the satan(accuser) is just doing his job, unfortunately he does it well.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Satan was a "murderer from the start". Meaning? He takes life unlawfully I suppose. He destroys life, and inspires its needless destruction. Thats why he's the bad guy. I imagine Gods actions are meant to be signs that warfare etc is lawful under certain curcumstances, and normal respect for lifes sanctity can be overriden by the fact that satan has a grip on someone (or a nation), hence a need for self defence?

The christian ethic of forgivenes is maybe meant to broker peace, because once either side demonises the other, well we have a "divine right to kill" mindset which can just help to make things worse. As in the Middle East.

My solution would be to naturalise evil and goodness, at least inpart, and use smart targets for increasing secular good (rather than pursue a faith only mindset which can increase hysteria and boggle the mind).

 

[madaz]

Satan was a "murderer from the start". Meaning? He takes life unlawfully I suppose. He destroys life, and inspires its needless destruction. Thats why he's the bad guy.

Is it unlawfull of Satan to murder when God commands Satan to murder?

 

[Sectio Aurea]

After reading the bible I still can't quite understand why satan is the bad guy? Compare his actions to what God did and he seems quite docile.

There are plenty of accounts of god killing people, sending people to kill others and their children, wiping out the entire planet in the flood etc.

Everyone says satan is the bad guy but what did he actually do? And at what point does he ever do anything against anyone else on the sheer scale that God did?

I look forward to your responses

I have wondered this myself in the past.

Satan certainly appears to be the lesser of the two evils, why this is so is a certainly a good question worthy of discussion.

Perhaps I'm missing something?

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Is it unlawfull of Satan to murder when God commands Satan to murder?

Not sure where you re coming from...

 

[ranunculus]

How do you assess the character of a god if you believe your sense of morality is given by that god?

What happens if you make a moral judgement on genocide by using the moral standards of the man who says genocide is OK?

 

[DogmaHunter]

I read many posts in this thread that what makes him evil, ultimatly, is his rebellion against god.

As poolerboy pointed out (and to which he didn't recieve a response, unless i've missed it), this off course assumes that god is good.

If we are going to ask the question "who's the good and the bad guy in this story?", then we can't assume our answers up front.

So we're going to have to take a step back and evaluate both characters in the book purely by what is written about their actions.

So god is this heavenly dictator, who's authority seems to be rooted in the fact that he's all-powerfull (meaning, it's a case of "might makes right"). Satan is a dude that rebels against this authority.

It seems to me that you can't just assume that this is a bad or evil thing to do.
If someone in North Korea starts a rebellion against the dictator, i'ld say that that dude is the good guy. The biographers and propaganda writers of dictator Kimmy will, off course, make sure to mention that the rebels are evil. But are they, really?

It's not at all clear to me that, in context of this story as written, it is the case that god is the good guy. He's merely claimed to be. And ultimately, that claim seems to be enforced only through a "might makes right" mentality.

It is said for example that satan is responsible for the "fall" of man. But let's actually evaluate what that was all about. Adam and Eve didn't have knowledge of good and evil. They were ignorant of what was good and what was evil. Apparantly, this satan character felt like humans should have knowledge of good and evil. God didn't want humans to have that knowledge. I'ld say having knowledge of good and evil is a good thing, wouldn't you say? Why would god not want us to have this knowledge? Especially if that god is indeed all about good, love and reason?
What does it say about an entity that actively wants us to remain ignorant on such important things?

Please, anyone, present an actual argument that demonstrates how god is the good guy and the rebels are the bad guys.

 

[Robban]

I read many posts in this thread that what makes him evil, ultimatly, is his rebellion against god.

As poolerboy pointed out (and to which he didn't recieve a response, unless i've missed it), this off course assumes that god is good.

If we are going to ask the question "who's the good and the bad guy in this story?", then we can't assume our answers up front.

So we're going to have to take a step back and evaluate both characters in the book purely by what is written about their actions.

So god is this heavenly dictator, who's authority seems to be rooted in the fact that he's all-powerfull (meaning, it's a case of "might makes right"). Satan is a dude that rebels against this authority.

It seems to me that you can't just assume that this is a bad or evil thing to do.
If someone in North Korea starts a rebellion against the dictator, i'ld say that that dude is the good guy. The biographers and propaganda writers of dictator Kimmy will, off course, make sure to mention that the rebels are evil. But are they, really?

It's not at all clear to me that, in context of this story as written, it is the case that god is the good guy. He's merely claimed to be. And ultimately, that claim seems to be enforced only through a "might makes right" mentality.

It is said for example that satan is responsible for the "fall" of man. But let's actually evaluate what that was all about. Adam and Eve didn't have knowledge of good and evil. They were ignorant of what was good and what was evil. Apparantly, this satan character felt like humans should have knowledge of good and evil. God didn't want humans to have that knowledge. I'ld say having knowledge of good and evil is a good thing, wouldn't you say? Why would god not want us to have this knowledge? Especially if that god is indeed all about good, love and reason?
What does it say about an entity that actively wants us to remain ignorant on such important things?

Please, anyone, present an actual argument that demonstrates how god is the good guy and the rebels are the bad guys.

God is not a guy, the satan is not a guy,

God is the source of all things, there is no other,
so it is not about believing in anyone, but returning to the source.

 

[Marbleyes902]

One thing I would never do is try to talk sports with a sports fan.
It would take about 5 sentences before anyone could see I didn't have a clue about the subject. So it is with so many, who obviously, have never read the bible in it's entirety for themselves.
If you actually want an answer to the question, just read the book for yourself. The answer is there.

 

[TheStraightener]

The only things I can recall from the bible is comments saying to be wary of the devil, or not to give him any opportunity etc.

There are no specifics. As your obviously more well read about this than and know more about the bible than me.. then pointing to some scripture highlighting the bad things and atrocities Satan has done shouldn't be an issue for you.

 

[Aldebaran]

The only things I can recall from the bible is comments saying to be wary of the devil, or not to give him any opportunity etc.

There are no specifics. As your obviously more well read about this than and know more about the bible than me.. then pointing to some scripture highlighting the bad things and atrocities Satan has done shouldn't be an issue for you.

How about when he deceived Adam and Eve, causing the fall of man, bringing death into the world. Anyone who does that doesn't sound very good. That's just the very beginning of what he's done in human history alone.

 

[TheStraightener]

Can I have the verse that says the talking snake was satan, please