Why is Satan mentioned so rarely in the Old Testament?

[Andry]

I have wondered the same thing, could not find anything in scripture that addressed it, not yet anyway.

My OPINON is this.

satan stole from Adam certain authorities. Therefore before Jesus came and took them back there was more that satan could do in OT times than now.

Satan had indeed obtained the authority that rightfully belonged to Adam. But was it stolen or given?

Back to the OP, during the tempation of Jesus in the wilderness, you get the scenario where the devil makes his first physical appearance with a human being since the Garden of Eden. Very interesting, IMO.

 

[rita727]

Maybe Satan was on vacation or something.

Yeah, a nice trip to the tropics! That's what I see.

 

[lismore]

Why do you think Satan is mentioned so rarely in the Old Testament (in only 5 chapters in 929 in the OT i.e., only about ½ of 1% of the chapters)? In particular:

Because the bible is about God not about the devil.

Sometimes when you listen to a believer they say:

The devils done this, the devils done that, the devils done this, the devils done that.

Who cares what the defeated devil does or doesnt do? Jesus is the victor. We should talk more about Jesus

 

[Andyman_1970]

I've got an article on this (on my other computer) very topic I'll post it tomorrow.

 

[JimB]

I just read a book by N.T. Wright called “Evil and the Justice of God”. Wright raises an interesting question, sort of a which-came-first-the-chicken-or-the-egg type of question: which came first, the evil or satan? Is evil the agency (tool) of satan or is satan merely the agent of something larger, evil?

If we are dualists (a heresy, BTW, that was faced and refuted as far back as the Apostles) and think that satan is as powerful as God then evil is his weapon, but if evil came first and satan was but a casualty of it, then evil is our a greater enemy than is the devil and is what we should direct our efforts toward.

What do you think?

~Jim

http://www.ivpress.com/cgi-ivpress/book.pl/code=3398

Zeal is like a fire: feed it but watch it.​

 

[Always in His Presence]

I just read a book by N.T. Wright called “Evil and the Justice of God”. Wright raises an interesting question, sort of a which-came-first-the-chicken-or-the-egg type of question: which came first, the evil or satan? Is evil the agency (tool) of satan or is satan merely the agent of something larger, evil?

If we are dualists and think that satan is as powerful as God then evil is his weapon, but if evil came first and satan was but a casualty of it, then evil is our a greater enemy than is the devil and is what we should direct our efforts toward.

What do you think?

~Jim

I think that people who would even entertain the thought I bolded - have no conecpt of scripture whatsoever.

 

[Andry]

I think that people who would even entertain the thought I bolded - have no conecpt of scripture whatsoever.

We may not think that, but often act like that. It saddens me when some always think the devil's always after them and by de facto elevate him to a level playing field with God, which has never been the case.

 

[stone]

Satan had indeed obtained the authority that rightfully belonged to Adam. But was it stolen or given?

Back to the OP, during the tempation of Jesus in the wilderness, you get the scenario where the devil makes his first physical appearance with a human being since the Garden of Eden. Very interesting, IMO.

incorrect- Here you will see satan speaking to job.

look:

Job 4:12-21 12 Now a thing was secretly brought to me, and mine ear received a little thereof. 13 In thoughts from the visions of the night, when deep sleep falleth on men, 14 Fear came upon me, and trembling, which made all my bones to shake. 15 Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up: 16 It stood still, but I could not discern the form thereof: an image was before mine eyes, there was silence, and I heard a voice, saying, 17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker? 18 Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly: 19 How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, which are crushed before the moth? 20 They are destroyed from morning to evening: they perish for ever without any regarding it. 21 Doth not their excellency which is in them go away? they die, even without wisdom.

 

[Andry]

incorrect- Here you will see satan speaking to job.

Read my post correctly. Physical appearance.

 

[stone]

it has to be physical for him to see it pass before his face,

and just because you don't see it written in these pages called scripture does not mean it didn't happen else where.

 

[stone]

i could also argue that, that which is in heaven is now immortal, even if it was once mortal, so even when satan was in the garden he was not a physical being, but an immortal being.

 

[stone]

which would be why the word spirit is used to describe that which passed before his face, which is satan. and fear travels with it.

 

[stone]

then i would say that it is the fruit that Adam and Eve ate that gave them their mortality, and which is why father said that they would surely die if they ate from that tree.

 

[JimB]

I think that people who would even entertain the thought I bolded - have no conecpt of scripture whatsoever.

Thanx for pointing this out. I did not mean to infer that dualism is correct – that satan is an evil power equal to God. That was one of the first heresies of the church that was faced and refuted even in apostolic times. I have edited my post to say this.

~Jim

Zeal is like a fire: feed it but watch it.​

 

[Andyman_1970]

Why the accuser is not mentioned much in the Hebrew Scriptures:

IV. In Judaism, the devil is a created being subject to God. He can not do anything he wants. He has no power or authority of his own. He almost becomes a non-entity. He is more identified with the inclination towards evil, the yetzer ha-ra. Judaism spends very little time (if any at all) even discussing him. "The Satan" is man's adversary that accuses him before God. He is not given in Judaism the emphasis that he is given by modern Christianity. In Christianity, Satan has become almost a god of equal force for evil as God is force for good. Dualism is the foundation for this kind of thinking. It is a thought contrary to pure monotheism. As far as monotheism is concerned, God is God and there is none to even compare or challenge Him. Satan is not omnipresent, omniscient, nor omnipotent. Satan is a deceiver and a liar. (John 8:44, 11 Corinthians 11:3). Satan is not the god of this world as is taught in Christianity. II Corinthians 4:4 has been seriously misunderstood, and erroneously translated.

It's sad how dualism (Gnosticism lite) has an influence on Christianity even today in the year 2007.

 

[victoryword]

While I am not strongly dispensational in my theology (I believe there is much truth to it), I do agree with many of them that the Bible is PROGRESSIVE REVELATION. Everything was not revealed to the Old Testaments saints. For example, in 2 Samuel 24:1, God is blamed for causing David's temptation. Yet, we New Testament Christians know that God is NOT the source of temptation (James 1:13).

1 Chronicles 24:1, which was written many years later, gives us revelation into the true character behind David's temptation, which is the devil. Why this was not revealed before, we don't know and we could only speculate at this point. However, we do know that many evil things that is attributed to God in the Old Testament were actually works of the devil. Laurence Vance, in his excellent book, "The Other Side of Calvinism" wrote the following:

There is also the matter of God's permission. Often times God is said to do something when in fact he only permitted it to be done. Satan provoked David to number Israel (1 Chr. 21:1), but God was said to do it (2 Sam. 24:1). The best example is Job. Satan was the cause of Job's trouble (Job 1:12, 2:7), but Job (Job 1:21), the writer of Job (Job 42:11), and Satan himself (Job 1:11, 2:5) attributed it to God. This is further confirmed by Charles Hodge: "From these and similar passages, it is evident that it is a familiar scriptural usage, to ascribe to God effects which he allows in his wisdom to come to pass." (The Other Side of Calvinism, p. 273)

​

Some who know the Hebrew tell us that our English translations place God as a CAUSITIVE AGENT when it should be written to show Him as simply ALLOWING these things.

 

[stone]

While I am not strongly dispensational in my theology (I believe there is much truth to it), I do agree with many of them that the Bible is PROGRESSIVE REVELATION. Everything was not revealed to the Old Testaments saints. For example, in 2 Samuel 24:1, God is blamed for causing David's temptation. Yet, we New Testament Christians know that God is NOT the source of temptation (James 1:13).

1 Chronicles 24:1, which was written many years later, gives us revelation into the true character behind David's temptation, which is the devil. Why this was not revealed before, we don't know and we could only speculate at this point. However, we do know that many evil things that is attributed to God in the Old Testament were actually works of the devil. Laurence Vance, in his excellent book, "The Other Side of Calvinism" wrote the following:

There is also the matter of God's permission. Often times God is said to do something when in fact he only permitted it to be done. Satan provoked David to number Israel (1 Chr. 21:1), but God was said to do it (2 Sam. 24:1). The best example is Job. Satan was the cause of Job's trouble (Job 1:12, 2:7), but Job (Job 1:21), the writer of Job (Job 42:11), and Satan himself (Job 1:11, 2:5) attributed it to God. This is further confirmed by Charles Hodge: "From these and similar passages, it is evident that it is a familiar scriptural usage, to ascribe to God effects which he allows in his wisdom to come to pass." (The Other Side of Calvinism, p. 273)​

Some who know the Hebrew tell us that our English translations place God as a CAUSITIVE AGENT when it should be written to show Him as simply ALLOWING these things.

This appears to be a contradiction in scripture, what you have pointed out here 1st:

1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

when compared to this:

1Ch 21:1
And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

but when you look at this after reading job, you see that the bad things that happened only came to pass after father said that it could be done.

Job 1:6-12 6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. 8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? 9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? 10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. 11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. 12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
***

and then it all makes sense, it all comes together.

 

[AudioArtist]

Great, so God controls evil! What's the point, then? It seems bizarre praying for help with temptation to Him, when He's the one doing the tempting all along. How could I love such a God? A god mockingly telling me to fight against temptation, promising me help from it, yet all the time use Satan like a stupid little pawn to shove temptations in my face. :S

 

[stone]

There is that freewill thing as well. You choose in the end, just as Job chose rightousness over curseing g-d.

David chose to take the sin of israel upon himself, another act and display of rightousness.

It's the rightousness of man that satan wants to break.

 

[Svt4Him]

Why would you ask that, JT? Do I have to have ulterior motive in searching for the truth?

~Jim

Zeal is like a fire: feed it but watch it.​

Yes, you usually do.