Why is religious faith in decline?

[agapelove]

Why do you think that is?
iGen / Xennials are even less religious than Millennials. Interesting.

Well it makes sense because as a society we are becoming more humanist. You can see this with the younger generation in politics for sure.

Not trying to bag on Christianity (I'm a Christian myself), but it's a faith institution built mainly on shame and condemnation which is definitely not the point. Young people are starting to walk away from ideas like damnation, LGBTQ censure, fear-based evangelism, and total depravity.

I think Christianity is long over-due for a spiritual renaissance.

 

[Caliban]

Seems to me the answer is in the Legacy Evangelicals, since they're the ones who have taken the largest tumble.

This hardly seems like it even requires a poll. It's not news that you can't coast through life on someone else's faith forever. So if I had to guess I'd assume that in recent years, following the popularity of the 'new atheist' crowd (Dawkins, Harris, et al.), the social pressure to continue to identify as belonging to the faith in which you were raised has largely dissipated among most Christians, so you see the switch from this or that type of Evangelical (since they had predominated in the USA in recent decades, it makes sense that they'd have the most members to lose) to atheist/none.

Make it easy to leave and pointless to stay, and they will.

I think much of it depends on where you live. I'm in California; there isn't much pressure to be religious. Other places in the country however, place significant pressure on religious conformity. Many have lost family members, spouses, even access to their kids because they left the faith. It seems that in these situations, the reason for walking away from their faith must be significant. People usually make such choices under incredible conviction.

 

[Caliban]

Well it makes sense because as a society we are becoming more humanist. You can see this with the younger generation in politics for sure.

Not trying to bag on Christianity (I'm a Christian myself), but it's a faith institution built mainly on shame and condemnation which is definitely not the point. Young people are starting to talk away from ideas like damnation, LGBTQ censure, fear-based evangelism, and total depravity.

I think Christianity is long over-due for a spiritual renaissance.

Yes, it has repelled many. I find the morals of people from the middle eastern first century to be uncompelling.

 

[hedrick]

I think Christianity is long over-due for a spiritual renaissance.

The problem is that the people who are open to rethinking Christianity are also the ones that are most likely to think that there's no convincing evidence for God in the first place.

Bringing Christianity to people who are still part of the traditional culture is easy. They don't want anything new; competent traditional theology is the best approach. Bringing Christianity to people who are part of the modern culture is a problem that we don't have a good answer to. But spiritual renaissance isn't a bad idea. We need to get members in liberal churches to practice spiritual disciplines. Without that we look too much like we're just pushing ideas can be implemented in a secular context just as well, even if we're being faithful to Jesus' teachings in what we do (which I think we are).

 

[dzheremi]

I think much of it depends on where you live. I'm in California; there isn't much pressure to be religious. Other places in the country however, place significant pressure on religious conformity. Many have lost family members, spouses, even access to their kids because they left the faith. It seems that in these situations, the reason for walking away from their faith must be significant. People usually make such choices under incredible conviction.

I am also in California, and I concur. The people who are religious here can be presumed to actually want to be, at least if they're Christian. Others may differ. I have a Pakistani acquaintance, just for example, who had to flee from his family (not here, somewhere on the east coast; can't remember where, exactly) to another state several states away because he had ceased believing in Islam and didn't want to risk being hurt or worse. That might be another part of this: other traditions might be more strict/disapproving about leaving, and hence their 'nones' never get to really voice their opinions or live according to their convictions.

 

[crossnote]

I don't this this response adequately addresses the question I posed.

I gave you at least 5 reasons (in the parenthesis) why religious faith is in decline. I suppose one can argue it started with the Enlightenment when man’s reason became king over God’s revelation.

 

[pantingdeer]

But why the significant decline in religious faith? In fact, most young people have never believed. They were never in the church to begin with. It seems they don't find religious claims believable.

I think lots of people just don’t seem to care. They think it

But is that really true? I would prefer to ask people WHY the left the church. I don't think you can point to a 1st Century text to determine why people in the 21st Century are making decisions.

It is God breathed text

 

[Caliban]

The problem is that the people who are open to rethinking Christianity are also the ones that are most likely to think that there's no convincing evidence for God in the first place.

Bringing Christianity to people who are still part of the traditional culture is easy. They don't want anything new; competent traditional theology is the best approach. Bringing Christianity to people who are part of the modern culture is a problem that we don't have a good answer to. But spiritual renaissance isn't a bad idea. We need to get members in liberal churches to practice spiritual disciplines. Without that we look too much like we're just pushing ideas can be implemented in a secular context just as well, even if we're being faithful to Jesus' teachings in what we do (which I think we are).

That is interesting. I came to adulthood under the idea that liberal theologians were destroying the gospel and that men like B.B. Warfield had the correct response to unbiblical teaching. Now I just wonder how much his surname influenced his pugilist tone.

Some brands of Christianity set up an all or nothing dichotomy. Maybe I am part of it, but it seems to me that once I ditched the Bible as authoritative, I had nothing left to believe in. Warfield wasn't wrong about that. I just think he was wrong about the truth claims in the Bible.

 

[Caliban]

I gave you at least 5 reasons (in the parenthesis) why religious faith is in decline. I suppose one can argue it started with the Enlightenment when man’s reason became king over God’s revelation.

I asked why you think they are leaving the faith. You replied with a list of what you think the trust in. Maybe elaborate on why you think they left the church.

 

[dzheremi]

The problem is that the people who are open to rethinking Christianity are also the ones that are most likely to think that there's no convincing evidence for God in the first place.

Bringing Christianity to people who are still part of the traditional culture is easy. They don't want anything new; competent traditional theology is the best approach. Bringing Christianity to people who are part of the modern culture is a problem that we don't have a good answer to. But spiritual renaissance isn't a bad idea. We need to get members in liberal churches to practice spiritual disciplines. Without that we look too much like we're just pushing ideas can be implemented in a secular context just as well, even if we're being faithful to Jesus' teachings in what we do (which I think we are).

There is a lot of wisdom in this. Some of the early fathers such as St. Justin Martyr and St. Basil of Caesarea likewise argued for what could be found as edifying to the Christian faith in pagan religions and writings, so this also has a 'traditional' backing that could appeal to even troglodytes like me.

 

[Caliban]

I think lots of people just don’t seem to care. They think it

It is God breathed text

Well...it claims it is. I see no reason to think that is true.

People leaving their churched actually care quite a lot. What evidence do you have that they don't care or are dispassionate about their prior religious community? That seems to explicitly contradict everything they say.

 

[TLSITD]

What explains the trend of decreased religious belief and practice in the U.S.?


Given the findings of the following Barna poll, how do you explain the reason for this trend? I am interested in how a person’s religious tradition, non-belief, or presuppositions shape the way they engage with evidence pointing to the decline of religious faith and the increase of non-belief.


In... “2018, Christianity in the United States had witnessed a significant loss of followers, from 81 percent in 2003 to 72 percent in 2018. Meanwhile, the atheist / agnostic / none segment has seen the greatest increase of all groups analyzed, nearly doubling in size from 11 percent in 2003 to 21 percent in 2018” (Barna 2020).

View attachment 276871


Citation :

Tracking the Growth and Decline Of Religious Segments: The Rise Of Atheism

Barna Group – Organization. Tracking the Growth and Decline of Religious Segments: The Rise of Atheism - Barna Group

Probably because serving oneself at a high eternal cost is still more appealing to people than serving God at a high immediate personal cost. I don't think there's anything new about that.

Even when it was more popular culturally for people to attend church, for example, most of them still lived like the devil outside of it, as many religious people do today.

So I don't see this decline as a decline in true faith, but as a decline in religion as a cultural activity among people without faith.

 

[dzheremi]

I know a lot of ex-Christians who care a lot about their former faith communities, usually because they have family and friends still involved in them. It's hard to make blanket statements about Christians being horrible, greedy bigots or whatever when by doing so you would be indicting your own mother or neighbor or whoever you know who absolutely doesn't match that stereotype (same as with any other religion, really; is the Muslim butcher shop owner down the road plotting to kill you in the name of Allah? Probably not).

I also know a lot who don't really care, though, and have an "Ehh, that's not for me, but I'm happy for you" sort of approach, at least towards me and my own practice and belief. Granted, these same people are my friends and some (not all) family members, so they know me as a person and can't stereotype me on account of my faith, just as I cannot stereotype them on account of their lack of faith. Everyone is a person, y'know? And I don't mean that in a hyper-individualist way, but in a interpersonal relationship way. It's hard to think that my atheist friends are demons when they're also some of the people who love and care about me most in the entire world, and I them.

 

[XAPLTOS]

people are made to worship and everyone will worship something, rather that be Jesus another religion the government or themselves. Over the last 40 years we have moved into a selfish, isolated and fearful society where we have no real love for our neighbors especially us Christians. We do not love as Christ has loved us, we are superior in our mindset somehow holding the position of the Pharisee more times than not. The decline is because most of the church is sick, it preaches justification by works placing the law and hardships over the people instead of showing them the grace of a God. The grace of God releases love and transparency the law will always generate sin and shame which in turn will close people off. The decline is due to us the followers of Jesus, not anything external we are the problem. Ask yourself this (generally speaking) as much as you post on this site how often do you show the lost the genuine love of God. We debate differences but neglect the lost. If there is a problem it is due to the ones who are called to be salt and light. I will say this though I see a great worldwide explosion of the power, grace and the truth of God coming, we are His vessels and the shaking will continue until this revelation is placed in His people. The world once again will see who God is. I also believe the millennials will lead the way in this. God wins.

 

[Caliban]

Well it makes sense because as a society we are becoming more humanist. You can see this with the younger generation in politics for sure.

Not trying to bag on Christianity (I'm a Christian myself), but it's a faith institution built mainly on shame and condemnation which is definitely not the point. Young people are starting to walk away from ideas like damnation, LGBTQ censure, fear-based evangelism, and total depravity.

I think Christianity is long over-due for a spiritual renaissance.

There are past and active attempts to reform the faith. Liberal theology from the 20th Century attempted this. Major Protestant denominations went through significant change. Methodists for example changed greatly since their Wesleyan founding. But it is difficult to rehabilitate the morality of the text when it clearly presents hell as punishment and women as spiritually insignificant. I am aware of the theological traditions and arguments that make a case for more palatable readings of Hell and women's roles in the church and society; I just don't see it in the perspicuity of the Old or New Testament. At this point, I think Humanism is able to make greater positive social change than religion.

 

[Mantishand]

I think one reason is the “prosperity gospel” money grubbing TV preachers. That’s not Christianity, that’s evil greed and that’s what people associate Christians with. That and the cults that go door to door and try to convert you like the Mormons. That turns people off. People don’t understand Christianity. They think you have to give up things and be a perfect person.

 

[Caliban]

Probably because serving oneself at a high eternal cost is still more appealing to people than serving God at a high immediate personal cost. I don't think there's anything new about that.

Even when it was more popular culturally for people to attend church, for example, most of them still lived like the devil outside of it, as many religious people do today.

So I don't see this decline as a decline in true faith, but as a decline in religion as a cultural activity among people without faith.

I understand your thoughts on true faith as it contrasts with nominal or false profession; but I don't think that accounts for people who sincerely believed and yet left the church. As someone without belief in the Holy Spirit or the efficaciousness of election, I would look for non-spiritual explanations for why people left the church. For instance, no one leaving the church ever says, I left because I made an incense profession of faith. To hold your position, you would have to reject the actual answers people give for why they left.

 

[Caliban]

people are made to worship and everyone will worship something, rather that be Jesus another religion the government or themselves. Over the last 40 years we have moved into a selfish, isolated and fearful society where we have no real love for our neighbors especially us Christians. We do not love as Christ has loved us, we are superior in our mindset somehow holding the position of the Pharisee more times than not. The decline is because most of the church is sick, it preaches justification by works placing the law and hardships over the people instead of showing them the grace of a God. The grace of God releases love and transparency the law will always generate sin and shame which in turn will close people off. The decline is due to us the followers of Jesus, not anything external we are the problem. Ask yourself this (generally speaking) as much as you post on this site how often do you show the lost the genuine love of God. We debate differences but neglect the lost. If there is a problem it is due to the ones who are called to be salt and light. I will say this though I see a great worldwide explosion of the power, grace and the truth of God coming, we are His vessels and the shaking will continue until this revelation is placed in His people. The world once again will see who God is. I also believe the millennials will lead the way in this. God wins.

I certainly do not worship anything or anyone. You cannot be correct about that. I am direct proof. Only if you count worship as something normal people do everyday, like watching TV or showing affection to their partner, could you ever count that as worship. But if you do count those things as worship, what kind of worship is your god receiving if it's comparable to that?

 

[Caliban]

I know a lot of ex-Christians who care a lot about their former faith communities, usually because they have family and friends still involved in them. It's hard to make blanket statements about Christians being horrible, greedy bigots or whatever when by doing so you would be indicting your own mother or neighbor or whoever you know who absolutely doesn't match that stereotype (same as with any other religion, really; is the Muslim butcher shop owner down the road plotting to kill you in the name of Allah? Probably not).

I also know a lot who don't really care, though, and have an "Ehh, that's not for me, but I'm happy for you" sort of approach, at least towards me and my own practice and belief. Granted, these same people are my friends and some (not all) family members, so they know me as a person and can't stereotype me on account of my faith, just as I cannot stereotype them on account of their lack of faith. Everyone is a person, y'know? And I don't mean that in a hyper-individualist way, but in a interpersonal relationship way. It's hard to think that my atheist friends are demons when they're also some of the people who love and care about me most in the entire world, and I them.

Many people in my life are believers--I love them. I think they are wrong, but I love them. Lots of my family also have different political beliefs than me--love them too.

When it comes to religion, I think it is the fundamentalists who cause the most damage to people and culture. Protestants protested Shakespeare's Globe theatre because it was "ungodly." That is the definition of crazy in my opinion. Most people who attend church, even very conservative churches, are not into the theology and are not oppressing others by complaining about which bathroom a person uses. They just go about their business and try to be good people.

 

[hedrick]

Some brands of Christianity set up an all or nothing dichotomy. Maybe I am part of it, but it seems to me that once I ditched the Bible as authoritative, I had nothing left to believe in. Warfield wasn't wrong about that. I just think he was wrong about the truth claims in the Bible.

Let's look at what it means for the Bible to be authoritative. Should we accept every word as coming directly from God? Of course not. The OT histories are based on traditions from the vague past. Archaeology isn’t very kind to it, though there is reason to think that there’s some actual memory of those past times embedded in it.

But the Gospels are a lot closer to Jesus’ time, and seem to be based on documents that are even closer. Sure, the four writers interpreted it from different points of view, but we can certainly see Jesus there.

If we’re going to claim to be Jesus’ followers, we need some basis for knowing what that means. In the first century, you could talk to witnesses, or at least their disciples. But by our time, the Gospels are the only primary source for what Jesus actually said and did. That’s the basis for its authority. And I think it gives us enough to go on to form a pretty robust religion.

I’m not even so hostile to traditional Christianity. You can see quite clearly how Christianity was formulated to meet the needs of the time, and how the intellectual formulation was designed to let it be taken seriously by intellectuals at the time. But in many ways our metaphysics today is closer to the 1st Cent Jewish concepts than to 3rd and 4th Century Greek versions, and it’s not so clear that the reinterpretation to meet the needs of ancient culture is as useful to the modern portions of ours. (There are plenty of people for whom it still addresses issues that matter to them. But they’re not the ones that are leaving the faith. If you want your denomination to prosper, the best strategy is to become conservative. That gives you access to a large group of people that are easy to reach. But someone has to deal with the more difficult problem of reaching the rest.)

I think Jesus of the Synoptics, if combined with traditional spiritual practices and good worship, is perfectly viable in our culture. There are places that are making it work. But too often good scholarship is combined with insipid worship and a lack of emphasis on spiritual disciplines.