Why is pleasure bad? Why do we suffer?

[Nathaniel Red]

Why is pleasure bad? Why should we have to suffer? Why does getting closer to God bring more suffering rather than more pleasure? God sends pain and affliction, but when is there ever any rest?

 

[pdudgeon]

Sorry.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Why is pleasure bad? Why should we have to suffer? Why does getting closer to God bring more suffering rather than more pleasure? God sends pain and affliction, but when is there ever any rest?

it’s because we should derive our pleasure from God and being in communion with Him. we have replaced that with the notion that we can be satisfied with temporal things. because of that, our passions run us rather than the other way around.

so we bring the suffering on ourselves.

the only real rest is a Christian death.

 

[prodromos]

Adam and Eve sought pleasure in the flesh (Gen. 3:6) rather than God, and look where it got them.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Adam and Eve sought pleasure in the flesh (Gen. 3:6) rather than God, and look where it got them.

as did the unrepentant thief

 

[Nathaniel Red]

it’s because we should derive our pleasure from God and being in communion with Him. we have replaced that with the notion that we can be satisfied with temporal things. because of that, our passions run us rather than the other way around.

so we bring the suffering on ourselves.

the only real rest is a Christian death.

How does pleasure and suffering relate to patience? I don't feel like I have enough patience to suffer through this life.

 

[ArmyMatt]

How does pleasure and suffering relate to patience? I don't feel like I have enough patience to suffer through this life.

die daily, worry about today’s struggles, tomorrow will have its own issues.

 

[Nathaniel Red]

die daily, worry about today’s struggles, tomorrow will have its own issues.

I don't want to suffer. How do I desire suffering?

 

[ArmyMatt]

I don't want to suffer. How do I desire suffering?

nobody wants to suffer, but we should want what suffering can lead us to if we let it: God.

 

[truefiction1]

I don't want to suffer. How do I desire suffering?

We are to desire the Holy Spirit. He is the Comforter, and by Him our discomfort or suffering is overcome.

 

[truefiction1]

How does pleasure and suffering relate to patience? I don't feel like I have enough patience to suffer through this life.

Patience is given by the Holy Spirit. The ability to endure suffering is also given by the Holy Spirit. Think more about acquiring the Holy Spirit, by the means illustrated by St. Seraphim of Sarov during his conversation with Nicholas Motovilov.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Patience is given by the Holy Spirit. The ability to endure suffering is also given by the Holy Spirit. Think more about acquiring the Holy Spirit, by the means illustrated by St. Seraphim of Sarov during his conversation with Nicholas Motovilov.

this

 

[abacabb3]

B

Why is pleasure bad? Why should we have to suffer? Why does getting closer to God bring more suffering rather than more pleasure? God sends pain and affliction, but when is there ever any rest?

Because God is dispassionate. God has permitted the existence of pain as a means for us to purge the passions and thereby become more like him. Otherwise, we'd have an eternity of being diametrically opposed to God and this in reality *is* the experience of damnation.

In short, Saint Maximus teaches that pleasure and pain are from the Fall, and pain brings the death of pleasure and is thereby redemptive.

 

[Nathaniel Red]

B

Because God is dispassionate. God has permitted the existence of pain as a means for us to purge the passions and thereby become more like him. Otherwise, we'd have an eternity of being diametrically opposed to God and this in reality *is* the experience of damnation.

In short, Saint Maximus teaches that pleasure and pain are from the Fall, and pain brings the death of pleasure and is thereby redemptive.

So there is no pleasure in heaven? Then why should I care about it? If God is dispassionate, shouldn't I be dispassionate about God?

 

[abacabb3]

So there is no pleasure in heaven? Then why should I care about it? If God is dispassionate, shouldn't I be dispassionate about God?

You're rhetorical questions. We accept God's revelation knowing that God is good. We don't need to really rationalize it for ourselves.

Heaven would have dispassionate pleasures. So, we'd take pleasure in good, love, worship--not getting our rocks off with chocolate cake or whatever else. Dispassion is not the lack of feeling, rather, it is the ability to operate without diametrically opposed emotions (gnomic willing) and self-edification.

 

[Soyeong]

Why is pleasure bad? Why should we have to suffer? Why does getting closer to God bring more suffering rather than more pleasure? God sends pain and affliction, but when is there ever any rest?

When our desire enters the picture it clouds our judgement so that we can no longer be sure if something is truly good or if we just think that it is good because we desire it, so that is where we need to trust in the Lord with all all heart to divide between what is good or not and lean not on our own understanding, but in all our ways submit to him and he will make our paths straight (Proverbs 3:5-6). So it is not so much that pleasure is bad, but that not everything that we think will be pleasurable is actually good. For example, sex is a precious gift from God, but it is a gift that can be misused in ways that is destructive, so God has given instructions as a gift for our own good to teach a framework for how to correctly use it.

Likewise, pain is also a gift from God that lets us know when something is wrong. For example, the damage caused by leprosy is not directly caused by the disease itself, but rather the damage is self-inflicted as the result of the disease destroying nerve endings that allow us to feel pain. For instance, if someone touched a hot stove and didn't feel any pain letting them know that they should yank their hand back, then they could cause serious burns to themselves without even realizing that they need medical attention. Pain can also be used to discipline us, we should not learn on our own understanding of whether something is a blessing or a curse, but trust that if we are obeying what God has instructed for our own good, then we are being blessed.

 

[Not David]

Even with earthly stuff, we suffer so that we improve, for example, studying can give you a lot of stress when you could be doing something fun, or going for a run can exhaust you when you could be eating chocolate.

 

[ArmyMatt]

So there is no pleasure in heaven? Then why should I care about it? If God is dispassionate, shouldn't I be dispassionate about God?

no, because pleasure is typically our hormonal response to XYZ. our bodies aren’t gonna be like that after the Judgement.

what we will gain is infinitely greater.

 

[Nathaniel Red]

no, because pleasure is typically our hormonal response to XYZ. our bodies aren’t gonna be like that after the Judgement.

what we will gain is infinitely greater.

I have a somewhat related question that's bothering me.

Since God is unchanging, how can we have a relationship with him? We cannot change God, so doesn't that mean that we cannot affect God in a relationship? If we cannot have pleasures, desires, will, or self, but are supposed to find those all in God, how is that not just equivalent to an authoritarian force imposing their nature upon us, rather than a loving father/husband? Where am I in God? How is there room for me at all, if all earthly pleasures are evil? How is it at all reciprocal back and forth kind of love if nothing in God can be reciprocated, nothing can be changed? Who even am I without my desires and self will? It seems I'm just an empty shell that God is spiritually raping.

 

[WanderedHome]

Why is pleasure bad? Why should we have to suffer? Why does getting closer to God bring more suffering rather than more pleasure? God sends pain and affliction, but when is there ever any rest?

I can't believe the pleasures of this life are inherently evil. We should not be hedonists, but neither should we go too far the other way and fall into Gnosticism. I believe God made the enjoyments of this life to draw us towards Himself and reveal more of Himself to us so that we may glorify Him through it. The problem is when the pleasures of this life become our gods. Example- food is not bad, but gluttony is. Sex is not bad, but lust, selfishness, and fornication are. When it is said "God is dispassionate" I don't think it means He is some kind of robot, apathetic towards our joys and griefs but He doesn't let either passion overtake Him and control Him. I think there are pleasures in Heaven, though maybe not the same as what we experience in this world, but far better.