Why is Paul needed?

[DarkProphet]

One thing that keeps getting me is that Paul is quoted more then Jesus. Besides having the most dubious credentials of the Bible writers he "clarifies" things in a way that seems counter to Jesus' message and mission. The larger thing is this though, if Jesus was the savior and his disciples are the messengers then why is there a need for Paul at all? Shouldn't have God's message been clear the first time around?

 

[drich0150]

Because alot of well meaning "Christians" misunderstood and even today misunderstand the words of Jesus. Jesus tell us that, even though we have ears and eyes we do not see or hear. In the direction and wisdom of Jesus there is much freedom to be found. So much so, that the foolish or young in the spirit will hang themselves by their very own freedoms. Paul help those who want to truly know God through these freedoms to do so in a manner as to not overwhelm themselves back into sin.

For example Christ tells his disciples to sell all the have and follow Him. There were those well meaning brothers in the church who thought that this was the price of admission into heaven. So the sold all that they had and gave it away, and simply waited for the return of Christ.. Well after a few days these people got hungry and turned to the church for food and shelter.. So Paul explains that Christ's command was not to place people in a state of poverty so that they were to be dependent on the church. Paul tells them that if a man does not take care of his family he is worse than an unbeliever..

The teachings of Paul are a half way point between the initially simple messages that Christ taught, and the more profound underlining meanings that can be found in those very same simple messages. Ultimately Paul's teachings pick up where Jesus's simple teachings stop, and he ultimately helps us back to the more advanced teachings of Christ.

I assume that The reason you hear so much of Paul's teachings, is because this is where you are spiritually. You can "hear" the more advanced teachings of Jesus and to the unhearing ear they sound the same as the simple teachings of Jesus, so usually they are brushed aside by the hearer of those words.

 

[DarkProphet]

Because alot of well meaning "Christians" misunderstood and even today misunderstand the words of Jesus. Jesus tell us that, even though we have ears and eyes we do not see or hear. In the direction and wisdom of Jesus there is much freedom to be found. So much so, that the foolish or young in the spirit will hang themselves by their very own freedoms. Paul help those who want to truly know God through these freedoms to do so in a manner as to not overwhelm themselves back into sin.

Oh? And doesn't God guide those that seek him toward him anyway?

For example Christ tells his disciples to sell all the have and follow Him. There were those well meaning brothers in the church who thought that this was the price of admission into heaven. So the sold all that they had and gave it away, and simply waited for the return of Christ.. Well after a few days these people got hungry and turned to the church for food and shelter.. So Paul explains that Christ's command was not to place people in a state of poverty so that they were to be dependent on the church. Paul tells them that if a man does not take care of his family he is worse than an unbeliever..

Jesus also commented that rich man would have a hard time getting into heaven and that he came to tear families apart. Paul's message seems counter to that, even if it is easier to follow.

The teachings of Paul are a half way point between the initially simple messages that Christ taught, and the more profound underlining meanings that can be found in those very same simple messages. Ultimately Paul's teachings pick up where Jesus's simple teachings stop, and he ultimately helps us back to the more advanced teachings of Christ.

Why Paul then? Why not one of the disciples that followed Jesus?

I assume that The reason you hear so much of Paul's teachings, is because this is where you are spiritually. You can "hear" the more advanced teachings of Jesus and to the unhearing ear they sound the same as the simple teachings of Jesus, so usually they are brushed aside by the hearer of those words.

No, I hear more of Paul's teachings because that is where I'm directed to by Christians and it's where Christians get many of their quotes when referring to how to live.

 

[drich0150]

Oh? And doesn't God guide those that seek him toward him anyway?

He does, but This is Not accomplished by sending an angel to sprinkle magic pixie dust on you while you sleep. For all those who earnestly seek Him, He will be found in the writings of Paul.

Jesus also commented that rich man would have a hard time getting into heaven and that he came to tear families apart. Paul's message seems counter to that, even if it is easier to follow.

Rich men Generally do have a hard time getting into Heaven, especially back then. Because in order for someone to become wealthy it was at the expense of others. This type of behavior runs contrary to what it takes to have a relationship with God. Paul does not disagree here.

Jesus was also correct when He said that, He would be the reason families would be torn apart. Paul clarifies and says, that even if your family is torn apart by your belief in Jesus this does not stop your responsibility to them.. Unless they Leave you, if they decide togo we are supposed to let them leave.

Again there was enough freedom in the principle Jesus spoke, to let a fool or someone young at heart to be wronged by a family member, and assume that the natural reaction is to hurt back.

Primarily because there isn't a direct correlation between "turn the other cheek" and "I am here to drive families apart." People weren't making that connection on their own. So Paul connects the dots for them. Following the teachings of Jesus alone will allow someone to self righteously justify just about anything they want. What the fool or young in spirit often don't see is the fragile nature of the relationship on which God's freedom is built.

Why Paul then? Why not one of the disciples that followed Jesus?

I can't say, because the bible is silent there.. Maybe it was always supposed to be Paul, but at the time of Jesus's ministry "Saul" was not ready to be a disciple. And/or Perhaps it took an ex-Pharisee (Someone use to being under the law) to be able to comprehend the depths needed to bridge those gaps between the simple teachings of Jesus and the underlining wisdom.

No, I hear more of Paul's teachings because that is where I'm directed to by Christians and it's where Christians get many of their quotes when referring to how to live.

If you seek direction as to how to live, then you currently do not understand or have a solid relationship with the Holy Spirit. Which means you, are spiritually only able to comprehend the written teachings you have received. To "hear" more of what Jesus taught is a gift, and not an academic exercise.

We quote Paul because His words are usually very direct, and to the point. The words of Christ are open and will serve the purposes of any Heart. For those who come to Him as a Child, they will find a savior. For the self serving, they will find what ever it is they seek.

 

[Hentenza]

LOL!!!! Most non Christians hate Paul because what he teaches is the applications to Jesus teachings. There is no contradiction between Paul's writings and Jesus teachings.

 

[spr]

Paul was used for the very reason that he wasn't one of the twelve, never saw Christ in the flesh, and he was the most zealous persecutor of the church; it was so God could cause Christians later on to understand who they truly are in Christ. None of us are of the twelve or saw Christ in the flesh, and all of us have in some way been contrary to the church of God. Paul is a pedestal that lifts up every Christian above the baseness of saint worship and causes all to enter into their place in the gospel with respect only to God by the sacrifice of Christ alone.

 

[salida]

????Paul is an apostle sir-this whole thing isn't making any sense.

Jesus told the apostles to go out into all the nation and witness to mankind. Why is Paul all of a sudden an issue? They obviously are in line with Christ-except Judas who betrayed him in the gospels.

 

[DarkProphet]

????Paul is an apostle sir-this whole thing isn't making any sense.

Perhaps I missed the part where he traveled with Jesus.

Jesus told the apostles to go out into all the nation and witness to mankind.

Hence the question of why Paul is needed.

Why is Paul all of a sudden an issue?

Because Paul's credentials and motivations are dubious as is his message.

They obviously are in line with Christ-except Judas who betrayed him in the gospels.

Obviously?

So Paul's views on slavery are Jesus' views on slavery?

 

[Hentenza]

Because Paul's credentials and motivations are dubious as is his message.

You keep throwing this around. It would be more productive if you got into specifics.

 

[seashale76]

If you are truly interested in the topic of St. Paul, then I encourage you to listen to a podcast on the very topic:

The Heritage of St. Paul in Orthodox Spirituality- Part 1
The Heritage Of St. Paul In Orthodox Spirituality - Part 1 - A Word from the Holy Fathers - Ancient Faith Radio

The Heritage of St. Paul in Orthodox Spirituality- Part 2
The Heritage Of St. Paul In Orthodox Spirituality - Part 2 - A Word from the Holy Fathers - Ancient Faith Radio

 

[Van]

Why did God choose to use Paul to present the gospel to the World? I am not sure I understand why you say Paul was needed. God could have chosen someone else I suppose, but to suggest that God's plan to present the gospel to world did not include Paul seems dubious. Now if the question is really why did God choose to use Paul, I think it was to illustrate that even a really big sinner can be saved by the grace of God. In other words, Paul would be the last person you would guess, because of how he persecuted believers, and participated in the death of Steven. On the other hand, Paul had the education and Roman citizenship to facilitate carrying the message to the ends of the earth. During his life, Paul became rather Christ-like, which means he provided an example of how all Christians can follow Christ. You might try reading one of his short letters, Philemon, and see if you can discern Christ in Paul's character.

 

[Harry3142]

Paul was a prolific writer, and we are fortunate that he was. We have two letters of Peter's, one of Jude's, three of John's, the four gospels, Acts of the Apostles, Hebrews, and Revelation, all written by other authors. But the majority of The New Testament's letters were composed by Paul.

It is interesting that there now exist some radical denominations which severely curtail their members' reading of Paul's letters. I know personally of three of these where a member can be excommunicated if he asks a question based on what he has read in Paul's letters. I have debated these people on numerous occasions, and have found that there is a common denominator which motivates them. Paul's writings strip their heirarchy of the power they desire to hold over their membership. Since we are saved through God's action rather than our own, the leadership of those churches cannot claim that the membership must obey their directives, statutes, and laws in order to earn their own salvation.

 

[Emmy]

Dear DarkProphet. Jesus Himself made sure that Saul turned into Paul, while on the Road to Damascus. Drich 0150 explained " Why is Paul needed?" very, very good. Maybe 1 of the reasons why Paul is needed, and more thorough in explaining than some others of the disciples, is: Paul saw himself as the persecutor of Christians, who was absolutely mistaken, and therefore had to show his love and obedience to Jesus Christ with all his heart and soul!! Jesus Himself chose Paul, and our Lord is NEVER wrong. I say this humbly and with love. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.