Why Is John MacArthur Considered A Heretic By Some Fundamentalists

[FundamentalistJohn]

I don't think I've ever met a Fundamentalist who considers these men heretical.

Perhaps I don't have as much experience as others.

FJ

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

I don't think I've ever met a Fundamentalist who considers these men heretical.

Perhaps I don't have as much experience as others.

FJ

I've recently run into some who feel that way. I've been posting on an Independent Fundamental Baptist forum, and there are some extreme IFB types there (a small but vocal minority) who believe that Calvinism is of da debil. And MacArthur, Sproul and Piper are Calvinists. Not my opinion at all, I'm just reporting that such sentiment exists.

 

[JSGuitarist]

Cyrus Scofield, Charles Finney, Billy Sunday, John R. Rice, & Jack Hyles.

I might be reading the conversation wrong, but it kind of surprises me the idea that either three of Sproul, MacArthur or Piper would endorse Finney, as he essentially introduced Pelagianism to America. That's about as opposite of Calvinist as you can get. I could be missing something here.

 

[FundamentalistJohn]

I might be reading the conversation wrong, but it kind of surprises me the idea that either three of Sproul, MacArthur or Piper would endorse Finney, as he essentially introduced Pelagianism to America. That's about as opposite of Calvinist as you can get. I could be missing something here.

It's true that Finney is far from being a Calvinist. Wasn't it his teachings that led to what is called "Freewill Baptists?"

 

[FundamentalistJohn]

I've recently run into some who feel that way. I've been posting on an Independent Fundamental Baptist forum, and there are some extreme IFB types there (a small but vocal minority) who believe that Calvinism is of da debil. And MacArthur, Sproul and Piper are Calvinists. Not my opinion at all, I'm just reporting that such sentiment exists.

Thanks Izzy;
Are any of the older members still around? Des, Nadine, HowardDean, Cubanito?

 

[JSGuitarist]

Far as the Freewill Baptists go, I don't know much about them. They may possibly employ methods similar to what Finney used. The use of emotional appeals and altar calls were popularized by him, so far as I can see. I'd just be surprised if Piper, Sproul or MacArthur endorsed him because most Calvinists consider him an outright heretic (and his beliefs very much were).

 

[the particular baptist]

I might be reading the conversation wrong, but it kind of surprises me the idea that either three of Sproul, MacArthur or Piper would endorse Finney, as he essentially introduced Pelagianism to America. That's about as opposite of Calvinist as you can get. I could be missing something here.

The question was asked who do modern fundamentalists look up to and i answered those men. I should have qualified that this fundamentalist (including Sproul, Johnny Mac, and Piper) does not in any way consider the works of those men, or any man that teaches contrary to the free and sovereign grace of God, of any value. Finney was a heretic for sure and Scofield's post modern dispensational hermeneutic has done almost as much damage, if not more, than Finney's decisional regeneration.

 

[desmalia]

Thanks Izzy;
Are any of the older members still around? Des, Nadine, HowardDean, Cubanito?

Heya John!
I'm still around, but don't post as much. Nadine and HD are not on CF anymore, but are on some other forums. Cubanito stops in from time to time, but I haven't seen him in a while.

 

[FundamentalistJohn]

Far as the Freewill Baptists go, I don't know much about them. They may possibly employ methods similar to what Finney used. The use of emotional appeals and altar calls were popularized by him, so far as I can see. I'd just be surprised if Piper, Sproul or MacArthur endorsed him because most Calvinists consider him an outright heretic (and his beliefs very much were).

I can't say that I remember any of the three ever commenting on Finney. But I agree with you, I seriously doubt they would endorse much if anything that he wrote.

 

[FundamentalistJohn]

Heya John!
I'm still around, but don't post as much. Nadine and HD are not on CF anymore, but are on some other forums. Cubanito stops in from time to time, but I haven't seen him in a while.

Hi Des, great to hear from you. Send me a PM and let me know where you guys and ladies are hanging out now. I intend to be more active here but also looking for something different as well.

FJ

 

[General Mung Beans]

The big criticisms some fundamentalists have with MacArthur seems to be the relation of Christ's blood to salvation and also Lordship Salvation which many argue is a salvation by works:

R.B. Thieme, Jr. and John MacArthur ...Heretics!

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False Doctrines/Lordship Salvation/macarthur-works.htm

 

[desmalia]

The big criticisms some fundamentalists have with MacArthur seems to be the relation of Christ's blood to salvation and also Lordship Salvation which many argue is a salvation by works:

R.B. Thieme, Jr. and John MacArthur ...Heretics!

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False Doctrines/Lordship Salvation/macarthur-works.htm

What makes you say that either of these authors are fundamentalists? Charismatics, quite likely. But fundamentalists?

Based on their web pages both appear to be taking MacArthur's statements completely out of context. One can just imagine what else they take out of context.

 

[General Mung Beans]

What makes you say that either of these authors are fundamentalists? Charismatics, quite likely. But fundamentalists?

Based on their web pages both appear to be taking MacArthur's statements completely out of context. One can just imagine what else they take out of context.

They aren't Charismatics-that site is Independent Fundamental Baptist and they are against Charismatics too.

 

[desmalia]

They aren't Charismatics-that site is Independent Fundamental Baptist and they are against Charismatics too.

Ah. Then they are naturally against anyone who is not KJV-only?

 

[General Mung Beans]

Ah. Then they are naturally against anyone who is not KJV-only?

I presume.

 

[desmalia]

I presume.

Ya, that probably give you a good idea of where they're coming from...

 

[Aleph Ayin-Ar]

I happen to like J Mac. I also consider myself a fundamentalist. Go figure!

Ditto. His sermon on Friends and slaves of Jesus greatly edified me in my understanding of my relationship with my Lord, Jesus Christ.

I've read one 'thesis' on MacArthurs 'heresy', and I mean, jeeeesh, I'm a KJV Only-type whose about ready to say goodbye to everything worldly and join some society where they shun unbelievers, I've HAD IT lol.. So I'd consider myself on the waaaayyy over there-end of the scale when it comes to piety and fundamentalism, I do however see that if it had been the transformative nature of His Blood that saved us, then there would have been no need for Him to go to Hell for three days, aaaand that's about the main point of heresy I've seen posited, the rest where just gobbletigoop with little to no substance. Like how he was a terrible person for saying that you wouldn't go to Hell if you made a cake for some of the gays if you are working as a .. uhm.. cake person?! COnditor? whatever.. It's one thing if it was a wedding cake, or if they wanted like.. a dirty cake or something.. But a cake. with two names on it? Yeah, I don't think the council of Nicea would have deemed him a heretic either. There's quite a bit of room between rebukable misunderstanding and straight-up heresy. Has he quenched, or grieved The Holy Spirit, like how that prophet fellar said? I dunno, I would have to meet both of them to see who had a warm soul or not, and from the few sermons I've heard that popped into my YT feed, I couldnt notice any spirit that wasn't the Holy Spirit, not like with some of the IFB'ers who are feeding on the judgeful spirit. Yo folks, not every spirit is Holy because it wants you to scream about bible verses. Cus you know, the demons know all of that too 'and shudder'.

 

[Aleph Ayin-Ar]

The big criticisms some fundamentalists have with MacArthur seems to be the relation of Christ's blood to salvation and also Lordship Salvation which many argue is a salvation by works:

R.B. Thieme, Jr. and John MacArthur ...Heretics!

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False Doctrines/Lordship Salvation/macarthur-works.htm

I have noticed how many people completely misunderstand that yes, salvation is His Grace, but Sanctification demands works, works, repentance and working works and by NOT chasing the Spirit away, which is what happens when you grief it. You're still saved, but yeah, so many people do just the bare minimum, repenting once and thinking it's honkeydorey. Ooooh WEll! May God bless them with the understanding and knowledge how not to do it to the point where Jesus hardly remembers your face (figuratively, not literal sense, don't let y'alls underwear ride high, Im NOT speaking against His omni-everythingsnesses!). And God bless everyone else too! ESPECIALLY all my enemies! =D Love y'all people Ive never met!

 

[Newtheran]

Cyrus Scofield, Charles Finney, Billy Sunday, John R. Rice, & Jack Hyles.

Scofield - Old age gap theorist as a compromise with evolution can practically be laid at his feet.
Hyles - A great deal has been said about him that isn't too flattering from fundamentalists: The Biblical Evangelist - Jack Hyles Story
Finney, Sunday, and Rice are relatively free from critique as best as I can tell.

 

[jdcastro1972]

It's his brand of premillenial dispensationalism - one of the wackiest around.

Personally I subscribe to neither premillenialism or dispensationalism, because to me they are prioritizing a particular interpretation of more obscure scripture passages (e.g. Revelation 20) over the plainer ones, and a cardinal rule of interpretation is that the more obscure passages should be read in the light of the plainer ones, not the other way around.

We are also living in New Testament times, not Old.

Of course there are lots of other problems with the P/D view as well.