Why is it that many Christians

[samir]

Why is it that many Christians only cry 'legalism' when their favorite
sin comes up? Murder, lying, theft, sodomy; very few have a problem
believing they are still sins. But bring up pork or shrimp, or keeping
the correct Sabbath day, and they are instantly offended.

Eating pork and working on Saturday are not sins. They were only forbidden under a covenant God made with the Jews that lasted until the Messiah came.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Eating pork and working on Saturday are not sins.....

What is a sin then ?

 

[pat34lee]

Correct. How can someone versed in Scripture not know thus?

How can you read the books of Moses and deny it? Israel
was not to be an exception, but the example to all of the
nations.

Another thing about Sabbaths. God says they are his, not
the Jews' or Israel's.

Exodus 31:13
Leviticus 26:2
Ezekiel 20:20

About Christians and other strangers

Isaiah 56:1-8
1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

 

[samir]

What is a sin then ?

Sin is a word, thought, or deed contrary to God's will. Scripture declares all foods clean and lawful to eat. Therefore, eating pork, since it is not contrary to God's will, is not a sin.

 

[Soyeong]

Eating pork and working on Saturday are not sins. They were only forbidden under a covenant God made with the Jews that lasted until the Messiah came.

How do you think which things are sins unless God has revealed them?

Romans 7:7a What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

1 John 3:4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.

The law says to keep the Sabbath and to refrain from eating pork, therefore it is sinful to not do those things.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

How can you read the books of Moses and deny it? Israel
was not to be an exception, but the example to all of the
nations.

Did they read Moses ? Don't know.

Out of all the nations on earth, all of them were called doomed, except one. All of them were idolatrous. All of them were wicked with no godliness at all. None of them even sought God , the Creator of ALL.

Now again,
which nation was different than all the others ?

 

[samir]

How do you think which things are sins unless God has revealed them?

Romans 7:7a What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

1 John 3:4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.

The law says to keep the Sabbath and to refrain from eating pork, therefore it is sinful to not do those things

Christianity is based on the New Testament which clearly says all foods are clean.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Sin is a word, thought, or deed contrary to God's will. Scripture declares all foods clean and lawful to eat. Therefore, eating pork, since it is not contrary to God's will, is not a sin.

OH! ..... hmmmm...... You have contradicted yourself.
No worries , perhaps....
Everyone at , well, everywhere, contradicts themselves..... except for the remnant called and chosen by Yhwh for Himself....

First, (and important, qualifying question).

What did Yhwh , the Creator , DO with SCRIPTURE ?

 

[samir]

OH! ..... hmmmm...... You have contradicted yourself.
No worries , perhaps....
Everyone at , well, everywhere, contradicts themselves..... except for the remnant called and chosen by Yhwh for Himself....

First, (and important, qualifying question).

What did Yhwh , the Creator , DO with SCRIPTURE ?

Where do you think I contradicted myself?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Where do you think I contradicted myself?

We won't know
unless
we know what Yhwh did with Scripture. That's why I asked,
It is a question that if not answered, nothing else matters:
what did Yhwh DO with Scripture. (oh, yes- this IS written IN Scripture)
(there's not really a wrong answer, at this point, if it's true or at least honest).

 

[samir]

We won't know
unless
we know what Yhwh did with Scripture. That's why I asked,
It is a question that if not answered, nothing else matters:
what did Yhwh DO with Scripture. (oh, yes- this IS written IN Scripture)
(there's not really a wrong answer, at this point, if it's true or at least honest).

I don't understand your question but it's good to know I didn't contradict myself.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I don't understand your question but it's good to know I didn't contradict myself.

Oh, you did contradict yourself.

The question is simple: What did Yhwh(God) DO with Scripture?

I think what HE does is much much more important than what we think.

 

[toLiJC]

Why is it that many Christians only cry 'legalism' when their favorite
sin comes up? Murder, lying, theft, sodomy; very few have a problem
believing they are still sins. But bring up pork or shrimp, or keeping
the correct Sabbath day, and they are instantly offended.

the causation/infliction of harm/suffering to/on the neighbor/cohabitant is a sin, either spiritual or physical, while the consumption as a creation of the true God is not a sin in and of itself

Blessings

 

[Soyeong]

Christianity is based on the New Testament which clearly says all foods are clean.

And the NT is based on the the OT, which says that eating unclean foods is a sin. Sin is an offense to God, so it is an offense to God for anyone who has a relationship with Him regardless of who they are or what covenant they were under. Even if God had made no covenants with man, it would still be a sin to eat unclean animals.

People of different cultures have different concepts of what counts as food, so in order to correctly understand Mark 7:19, we need to keep in mind that the context was one Jew speaking to other Jews about food, and the things that they considered to be in the category of all food was only the things that God had said were food in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14. For example, a cannibal who thought that Mark 7:19 was saying it was now ok to eat human flesh as food would be taking it out of context. Eating pork was completely anathema to Jews and they weren't even allowed to raise pigs, so the thought of eating pork would never have crossed their minds. Rather, the discussion was about a man-made ritual purity law (Mark 7:3-4) where people could become defiled by eating with unwashed hands and at the end of the conversation (Matthew 15:20) Jesus was still saying that we do not become defiled with unwashed hands, so he never jumped topics to God's dietary laws.

 

[1John2:4]

What is so burdensome about keeping the Shabbat anyway? What else do you have to do that is more important than giving the Creator of the Universe one day a week, The day He wants you to keep? Go to the mall and buy a bunch of useless stuff? Really why is it such a burden to take a day off from the world? Maybe we would all be wise to listen to his instruction, maybe a lot less people would need anti anxiety medication?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Maybe we would all be wise to listen to his instruction, maybe a lot less people would need anti anxiety medication?

"maybe" ?

however, realize that billions of dollars every day are involved.....
well, not because there are that many believers,
but because the market is that big.... and the 'bosses' won't tolerate loss of profit ...
as voltaire said "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize."

 

[pat34lee]

Now again,
which nation was different than all the others ?

Not even Israel sought out God. He found them, and made
his covenants with their forefathers and fathers. As he knew
that all of us are sinful, his covenants were based on his name
and goodness, requiring nothing of them. They would be punished
for breaking covenants, but God kept them anyway.

 

[Razare]

Sinning is born from legalism in Christians.

Christians living like the world out sinning, are Christians who are legalists and they might even cry fowl "legalism" against people who try to bring up their sins. Either way they're still under the law, because they bear the fruit of the law, and the fruit of the law is sin which leads to death (Romans 7:5 and 2 Corinthians 3:7).

The other type of legalists are modern day church pharisees who often bicker at other Christians about following the law. These types come in 2 sorts... 1) Those who taint God's law, bringing it down to where they can keep it 2) Those who keep God's law pristine, condemning themselves and everyone else ... these people are very, very bitter.

Of the type of legalism I have fallen into, it is the 2nd type. I would condemn myself, and condemn everyone else, and I would do it as fairly as I was able. "That person deserves death." Then I would reflect on it, "I deserve it too, for the same sin." <--- Almost correct application of God's law.... except the full intent of God's law was to point us to Christ, and when we're renewed in Christ's way of thinking, we walk according to the spirit, and not the flesh. It is the flesh which focuses on commandments that it can attempt to keep, but it's the spirit which believes impossible things are now possible beyond our ability to do them.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, - Galatians 5:22

Now, where there is someone operating in love, there is no 10 commandments or law against it. Galatians 5:23

This means biter Christians focusing on God's OT law like the Mosaic law, are walking according to the flesh, and what they're doing is equivalent as to the person who lives in sin as if they never left the world. One sin is licentiousness, and the other is unbelief, pride and false humility. The later sins are worse, so if you're going to pick your poison (sin) then pick getting drunk and sleeping around, but not unbelief, pride, and false humility.

That said, the hypocrite who sits in a church pew has a vastly better shot of being pulled out of the mess they are in since they're exposed to other Christians... where as people at drunk parties don't have this. This is one reason I think Jesus went to the drunkards and tax collectors... they'll repent far easier than the biter person in a church pew. Plus that biter person has the scripture right in front of them, so they already have Christ if they're willing to listen.

So anyway, follow love, not the 10 commandments.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Not even Israel sought out God. He found them, and made
his covenants with their forefathers and fathers. As he knew
that all of us are sinful, his covenants were based on his name
and goodness, requiring nothing of them. They would be punished
for breaking covenants, but God kept them anyway.

Read my post again. As you posted: God kept them- i.e. so then, what nation was "different" than every other nation on earth ?
(I didn't say Israel sought out God.; that is NOT what made them different)
God chose them. God is Who made them different.

Next, read Torah again- all the way in fact through to Revelation, but especially the first 5 books.
Yhwh DID require something of the nation and of all the men HE called and chose.
hint: not sacrifice. hint: better than sacrifice.

 

[joshua 1 9]

But bring up pork or shrimp, or keeping
the correct Sabbath day, and they are instantly offended.

Because they have never been through cardio rehab. When people get older and their health is on the line then they will see that you can add years to their life when they follow the teaching of the Bible. I had a nephew that was eating a LOT of pork. I tried to warn him but he saw no problem with right it. Right up to when he got gout. Now he has cut way back on eating all that pork and he has a lot more respect for eating healthy. His health is a lot better.