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Why is it that many Christians

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I'll get back to the Sabbath, but the verses in Romans are
not about eating clean food.

"Romans 14:21 shows that meat offered to idols was the underlying issue of this chapter: “It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.” The Romans of the day commonly offered both meat and wine to idols, with portions of the offerings later sold in the marketplace."
https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-too...olish-gods-law/does-romans-14-abolish-laws-on

Would you consider human meat food? Some people
would, but it isn't clean and not made for eating. Pork is
exactly the same. Pigs have a job, and it isn't being a food
source.

As for clean and unclean animals being for Jews only, even
Noah knew the difference, because he took only two each of
all unclean animals, but seven each of clean ones (for eating
and for sacrifices.) This was still centuries before Abraham,
Isaac or Jacob, much less Moses.

Actually, before I go on to the Sabbath, what exactly does
anyone see about observing the Sabbath that puts them up
in arms against it?
I'm simply not convinced that God wants us to follow the OT torah as it was given. Whether or not something is physically clean or unclean is meaningless as far as sin goes. I can eat a rotten carrot, and it wouldn't be good for me, but eating something rotten isn't a sin.
Matthew 15
10Jesus called the crowd to Him and said, “Listen and understand. 11A man is not defiled by what enters his mouth, but by what comes out of it.”

12Then the disciples came to Him and said, “Are You aware that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?”

13But Jesus replied, “Every plant that My Heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by its roots.14Disregard them! They are blind guides.d If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”

15Peter said to Him, “Explain this parable to us.”

16“Do you still not understand?” Jesus asked. 17Do you not yet realize that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then is eliminated? 18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these things defile a man. 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, and slander. 20These are what defile a man, but eating with unwashed hands does not defile him.”
It seems to me that what Jesus is saying is that whatever enters the stomach doesn't define a man. Rather it seems to be the evil which come out of a man, including murder, and adultery. So even if I ate pork, or fed pork to a bunch of messianic jews who thought I was giving them exotic cow meat, they wouldn't be defiled by the pork itself.

Another thing, it seems to be the case the the OT contains a different covenant than that of the new testament.
Since we're not under the old covenant, the words God gave to Moses, are for us in the sense of learning the narrative and character of God, but not for us in the sense of us being required to go through the things commanded in Moses' era including circumcising our kids on their eighth day.

So, should uncircumcised men become circumcised, and keep the Law of Moses including:
Lev24: 19'If a man injures his neighbor, just as he has done, so it shall be done to him: 20fracture for fracture, eye for eye,tooth for tooth; just as he has injured a man, so it shall be inflicted on him.

If you injure me somehow, and break my jaw, would I, under the old testament law, be required to have the same done to you?

Paul has an answer to the question regarding circumcision:
Galatians 5:
2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

When it comes to sin, and being excluded from God's kingdom, it doesn't seem to me that failure to circumcise a child is against God's will in the New Covenant. Rather, the deeds of the flesh are considered condemning:
Galatians 5
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
I would expect something along the lines of, "those who do not practice the Sabbath, those who do not circumcise, etc will not inherit the kingdom of God" to be included if the case it seems you're trying to make were indeed true.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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God is not partial. He deals with those under the Law, and with those without the Law, properly.
Romans 2 CJB Biblegateway dot com >
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without [regard to] the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged and condemned by the Law.

So, with or without the Law,
God is Righteous and Just.
 
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Colter

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Why is it that many Christians only cry 'legalism' when their favorite
sin comes up? Murder, lying, theft, sodomy; very few have a problem
believing they are still sins. But bring up pork or shrimp, or keeping
the correct Sabbath day, and they are instantly offended.

Aside from the commandments all those OT laws were part of evolved religion, not directly from God. The scriptures are from the Holy men who wrote and rewrote them. God doesn't write books, but he does write his will on our hearts. In the original gospel of Jesus, before the cross, seeking the will of God is all aspects of life was central as opposed to the compulsive laws of religion.
 
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Vicomte13

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Or why is it that obeying the 613 commands in the OT is legalism while obeying the 1,050 commands in the NT isn't?

There are a remarkable number of bad legalists around. If one treats the various covenants of the Bible as law, and reads them as law, one discovers that the legalism people argue about (shellfish, for instance), is faux legalism. The shellfish law does not apply to the New Covenant.

So, a good Christian legalist - one who actually understands the law - realizes that the Law of Moses, in its entirety (including the Ten Commandments as such) is not law for Gentile Christians at all. Whether or not it is law for a Jewish Christian is a separate, slightly more complicated matter, the answer to which is that yes, if the Jew wants to (forlornly) hope for his ancestral right, from God, to a farm in Israel, that he and his family and community must indeed follow the whole of the Law of Moses. He will then find that, thanks to the destruction of the Temple and the priesthood by the Romans in 69 AD, it is no longer possible to fully obey the Law of Moses, the major part of which was specified rites that can no longer be carried out.

But most Christians simply do not read law very well, or do not understand what they are reading. The Law of Moses, on its face, tells anybody who reads it to whom it applies. Jesus preached to Jews in a time when the Temple was still up, and referred to it in that context. He said that not a letter would pass from "the Law" (by which he meant the Law of Moses) until the end of the world. Given the subsequent destruction of the Temple, what Jesus was saying is, in effect, once the Temple and the priesthood are gone, the promise of this land is gone, because you cannot fulfill the law - not because it's too hard, but because it is literally impossible: the daily, ongoing rites of priests of a certain line at one specific altar was a fundamental requirement of the law, and God removed that line of priests from the world, and saw to the destruction of that altar. And so now the Law of Moses literally cannot be fulfilled, no matter how willing a person might be. God has rendered it physically impossible to do so.

Christians blind themselves through bad reading comprehension skills when they think they're supposed to obey the Law of Moses. Jesus did not tell the people of the New Covenant to do that. He didn't even do that when he spoke about certain of those laws. The problem is one of legal context. Jesus preached to Jews in Biblical Israel. He spoke in their legal context, but by doing so he did not extent the Sinai Covenant to us. Yes, the Law of Moses is still in effect, but no, it never did apply to us, only to Jews. And Jews cannot follow all of it even if they want to - which means that it is really useless for them to follow any of it, as the promised farm in Israel is only in return for following all of it.

This distinction was very hard for Jews to make, and everybody theologizing in the New Testament was a Jew except for Luke.

Paul understood this, which is why we see him apparently struggling with "the Law" and its goodness, and its superfluity, on the one hand, and Christian salvation without it, on the other. Because Paul was himself a legalist Pharisee, he saw the intricacy of the Law. Because he was writing to a heavily Jewish early Christianity the presence of this "old wineskin" was pervasive. All of the evangelists except Luke (who wasn't a Jew) struggled with it. We read the product of their struggles.

The problem is, we read it without very good comprehension. Their struggle with their old law is not the same thing is as our struggle with law itself. All law, even all law in the Bible, is not the Law of Moses. Jesus independently gives plenty of law of God to Christians. These laws are new laws for the New Covenant. Quite a few of those laws overlap somewhat the Law of Moses, so one can see the parallels and see what God was getting at. But most of those laws do not overlap. And although there is an overlap, that overlap does not mean that Christians are, somehow, under the Law of Sinai. We are not, not ever, not even the Ten Commandments.

Now, it happens that a good deal of the essence of the Ten Commandments are emphasized by Jesus in the New Covenant, but Jesus' formulation of them for Christians is different, and the purpose is entirely different: we're not Jews promised, as a tribe, a farm in Israel for obedience, but individuals called individually to follow Christ, and by doing so, obtain a favorable outcome at the final judgment, after which we will go into the City of God to live happily with God the Father and with the regnant Son.

It's really quite different, and the Christian Law, the Law of Jesus, is also quite different.

In both testaments, when reading is done with care, it is clear that there is a hierarchy of laws - that some sins are worse than others. Now, the thing with the Jewish law, of Moses, is that it was communal. The promised reward was earthly: a farm in a secure Israel, for Hebrews of the bloodline. Because all of the Law of Moses was intended to instruct on some facet of life necessary to live securely in Israel, even the less important laws did need to be followed for there to not be suffering in Israel.

Consider shellfish. God gave that prohibition to Moses and the Hebrews as they were fleeing Egypt to settle in the Promised Land. The Israelites were only promised Canaan. They were never promised the world. God said that if the Hebrews ate as directed, they would not suffer the diseases they suffered in Egypt. THAT was the point of that Law, in that time, for those particular people, living in that place. In a pre-refrigeration, pre-running water, pre-soap, pre-germ theory age, a God who wanted a people he chose to not be ill from the incipient contagion all around in a sewer-free society, admonished them against eating certain foods that would make them sick there. Shellfish from the hot Mediterranean in the stagnant waters of the Eastern Med, polluted with all of the effluvient of the Egyptian Nile, the raw sewage of millions, swirling slowly up the coast.
Nobody today with any knowledge of hygiene would want to eat the oysters or clams out of Calcutta harbor. God always understood human hygiene, but the Bronze Age escaped slaves he was shepherding did not. Read the dietary, washing, excretion and cleanliness laws of the Torah again and realize what you are reading. A God-King leading a people who know nothing of germs, whose vocabulary is primitive, into a hot land that has been long settled (and is therefore covered with feces and illness). This God wants to protect his people, but they do not know germ theory. So he gives them a set of apparently arbitrary rules of what they can and can't eat, what they must wash, how they must prepare food, how and where they must defecate, what they must do about toxic molds and other illnesses. And he promises them that IF they obey all of these laws, they will not get sick like they did in Egypt.

If the balloon were to go up and we found ourselves in a post-apocalyptic world, without running water, without sewerage, without any medicine, without food standards, if we were living in a subtropical place where the stagnant ocean waters were filled with pollution, we would find that the dietary laws of Moses thread the needle to optimum health for that environment.
The Jews didn't figure that out. It was given to them. If the Promised Land had been Norway, God probably wouldn't have prohibited shellfish, because cold water oysters are not unclean and are very healthy. Eating oysters out of the sewage dump that was the ancient Eastern Mediterranean coast was a good way to die. God knew that, and he SAID so in the law of good: Do this, and you won't get the diseases you had in Egypt.

This was part of a covenant for a specific bloodline, in a specific place and time. It is not, on its written face, a law for all of humanity. So, Christians are not being HYPOCRITICAL when they don't follow the Law of Moses. They are actually being legalistic! That law does not apply to them ON ITS FACE. It SAYS who it applies to, and for what.

Where Christians fall down is in being hypocritical about the law of the New Testament, in pretending that because the Apostles and Jesus set aside various portions of "The Law" (of Moses) for them, that NO law applies to them. This choice is usually made out of ignorance. People read the Bible (if they read it at all - most people read parts of it and accept the interpretations of their traditions) see law, see "God said..." and don't read the law as law - to see to whom it applies. "God said not to eat pork..." Actually, God said pork and oysters are fine. He said that Noah after the Flood. God said specifically to Hebrews in Israel that they were not to eat such things there is they did not want to get sick. This was never, ever, a general law for mankind, and if one reads the Scripture verbatim, one sees that that is obvious. Who is subject to the Law of Moses, and why, is right there IN THE TEXT. Also in the text is the struggle of First Century JEWISH Christians, who had been raised under that law, to reconcile their new faith with the Old Law. Some did a better job than others. Some realized that Christians in general - Gentiles - are not under the Law of Moses at all (none quite realized that Gentiles NEVER WERE under the Law of Moses, but that is plain from the text itself).

But then we casually read today, see Old Testament Law, see Jews struggling with it in the New Testament, and then ASSUME, without any legal foundation, that this somehow must apply to us. That's faux legalism. It's like picking up a textbook of law and starting to apply it, without realizing that you are reading a translation of the political law of China. Doesn't apply to YOU (even if you're Chinese, if you're living in America), and NEVER DID to anybody else, living anywhere.

It's pretty obvious, when the Scriptures are read with a careful legal eye.

What is also obvious is that there is a NEW law in the New Testament. It has SOME of the features of SOME of the Jewish Commandments (the Ten, and others), but it is by no means a restatement of the Jewish Law. It's a fresh, new law, given by Jesus, for those who would follow HIM to the promised land, which is not Israel, but the City of God after final judgment.

This law is shorter. The deadly sins are detailed twice, by Jesus, on the last page of the Bible. The list only has one or two of the Ten Commandments, and includes other things that were not mentioned at all. It's not a restatement of the Law of Moses, but a different set of principles. There is some overlap, because God is the same God, but it comes from a different angle. This is not about a secure earthly farm in a promised land for selected people, but a room in God's city after death and resurrection.

The Law of Jesus is what we are under - he said "Follow me" many times, and he asked "What good does it do you to say you follow me if you don't do what I tell you to do?" If you want to know the Law of God for YOU, you have to set the Old Testament aside and read Jesus. Start with Revelation - it is best laid out there. The images of the end times are irrelevant here. It's what he says in the letters to the Seven Churches at the beginning, and his statement of the deadly sins at the end, that matter. Read the Gospels for a fleshing out of this message.

THAT is the law that people all over the world need to be following if they want to please God.

The notion that there is no law is absurd. The notion that God's law for the world is the Law of Moses is likewise, absurd. And that is all perfectly clear from the actual Scriptures, if they are read legalistically.
 
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Starcrystal

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I posted about the Sabbath last night here:
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...-the-modern-busy-world.7952305/#post-69767359

As far as shrimp and pork, other unclean foods, there is a scientific reason behind this, not just a spiritual reason, so God is revealing a healthy diet long before science figured it out.

I confess I eat shrimp and shellfish but try to stay away from pork as much as possible.

Scientifically the unclean meats are carnivores and scavengers. Lobster, crab and shellfish clean up the nasty stuff at the bottom of the ocean and other bodies of water. Shrimp are also very high in cholesterol.
Pigs eat garbage and will even eat human remains if offered (Port Coquitlam Canada serial killer Robert Pickton fed bodies to his swine.)
Pigs have numerous parasites including the nasty trichina worm that can make people very sick. This is why they tell you to cook pork thoroughly, and it cannot be eaten rare or medium as beef can.

The clean animals are all mainly vegetarian with the exception of scaled fish. The clean birds are mainly vegetarian and insect eaters, but scavenger birds and carnivorous birds like hawks, owls, and eagles are unclean.

There are some vegetarian animals such as squirrel, rabbit, horse, donkey, that are unclean.

Here is why the rabbit and certain other herbivorous animals are unclean:

"In order for the rabbit to obtain sufficient nutrients from the plants it eats, it has to ferment the material. This requires a fermentation chamber with an alkaline environment. Since the rabbit does not have a pre-stomach, like the cow does, it has to use its enlarged caecum.

However, its caecum is sandwiched between its gut and rectum and most of the absorption of the nutrients takes place there. When the rabbit redigests this material, it becomes coprophagous. In other words, it eats its own excrement. Consequently, the level of toxins in its tissues is far higher than in other herbivores. Bile salts, fatty acids, gases, and ammonia levels are all at unacceptable levels for human consumption. All rodents, and even the horse, fall into the same category."
http://amazingdiscoveries.org/C-deception-unclean_animals_pig_fish_mammals
 
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amariselle

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I posted about the Sabbath last night here:
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...-the-modern-busy-world.7952305/#post-69767359

As far as shrimp and pork, other unclean foods, there is a scientific reason behind this, not just a spiritual reason, so God is revealing a healthy diet long before science figured it out.

I confess I eat shrimp and shellfish but try to stay away from pork as much as possible.

Scientifically the unclean meats are carnivores and scavengers. Lobster, crab and shellfish clean up the nasty stuff at the bottom of the ocean and other bodies of water. Shrimp are also very high in cholesterol.
Pigs eat garbage and will even eat human remains if offered (Port Coquitlam Canada serial killer Robert Pickton fed bodies to his swine.)
Pigs have numerous parasites including the nasty trichina worm that can make people very sick. This is why they tell you to cook pork thoroughly, and it cannot be eaten rare or medium as beef can.

The clean animals are all mainly vegetarian with the exception of scaled fish. The clean birds are mainly vegetarian and insect eaters, but scavenger birds and carnivorous birds like hawks, owls, and eagles are unclean.

There are some vegetarian animals such as squirrel, rabbit, horse, donkey, that are unclean.

Here is why the rabbit and certain other herbivorous animals are unclean:

"In order for the rabbit to obtain sufficient nutrients from the plants it eats, it has to ferment the material. This requires a fermentation chamber with an alkaline environment. Since the rabbit does not have a pre-stomach, like the cow does, it has to use its enlarged caecum.

However, its caecum is sandwiched between its gut and rectum and most of the absorption of the nutrients takes place there. When the rabbit redigests this material, it becomes coprophagous. In other words, it eats its own excrement. Consequently, the level of toxins in its tissues is far higher than in other herbivores. Bile salts, fatty acids, gases, and ammonia levels are all at unacceptable levels for human consumption. All rodents, and even the horse, fall into the same category."
http://amazingdiscoveries.org/C-deception-unclean_animals_pig_fish_mammals

I have learned about this too. People often think that God was just making rules for no specific reason, but there is actually more to it then ceremonial purposes. This goes for the other laws regarding ceremonial uncleanliness as well, such as those regarding childbirth or touching the dead.
 
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Starcrystal

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Just a note here that some clean animals can be unclean because humans make them unclean...
Clean animals raised in factory farms (CAFOs) are not clean...this links gives detail.
One main reason is that factory farm animals that are herbivores by nature are often fed unnatural feeds that include ground up animal bones, animal waste parts, and even feathers, making them carnivorous clean animals due to human manipulation. Not to mention the antibiotics they are given which is unhealthy for you.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/07/23/cheap-factory-farmed-chicken.aspx

Try your best to get free range grass fed or vegetarian fed poultry and beef.

I have been forced to eat CAFO raised chicken and can literally tell by the smell it is unclean both before and after it is cooked..I can tell it has been fed an unnatural diet and the birds have been forced to become carnivorous animals. At times this has made me sick.
 
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BryanMaloney

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Why is it that many Christians only cry 'legalism' when their favorite
sin comes up? Murder, lying, theft, sodomy; very few have a problem
believing they are still sins. But bring up pork or shrimp, or keeping
the correct Sabbath day, and they are instantly offended.

Pork and shrimp? Really? That's got nothing at all to do with Christianity. Some lunatic fringe cults might think it does, but it doesn't. Go re-read the Book of Acts, MULTIPLE TIMES.
 
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1John2:4

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"maybe" ?

however, realize that billions of dollars every day are involved.....
well, not because there are that many believers,
but because the market is that big.... and the 'bosses' won't tolerate loss of profit ...
as voltaire said "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize."
"No man can serve two masters for either he will hate the one, and love the other;or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and Money."
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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"No man can serve two masters for either he will hate the one, and love the other;or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and Money."
other masters: the world; satan; flesh; sin; money; power; phrmk; military("some trust in horses... " ...) ; economic gobble-em-up; eduKAtion; "rights"(human,women,children,animal,nature,tron(borg),'lectronic)
 
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aiki

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Why is it that many Christians only cry 'legalism' when their favorite
sin comes up? Murder, lying, theft, sodomy; very few have a problem
believing they are still sins. But bring up pork or shrimp, or keeping
the correct Sabbath day, and they are instantly offended.

I don't know who the "very few" are that you are thinking of, but all of the believers I know regard murder, lying, theft, and sodomy as sin. They don't get offended when someone brings up pork or shrimp or keeping the Sabbath, though. Mostly, they just shake their heads at those who want to live under the yoke of the law and think everyone else must, too. And this is where the legalism happens. When those who are obsessed with keeping the law, with having an external veneer of righteousness, seek to impose their ideas of what that looks like on everyone else, they leave love and freedom in Christ and embrace guilt, fear, and the harsh rule of law instead.

Romans 7:5-6
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.
6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.


Galatians 5:13-14
13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."


Loving your neighbor as yourself is a great deal more difficult than observing the laws of separation God gave to His Chosen People. Love requires far more of us than external adherence to rules.

Selah.
 
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1John2:4

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Agreed, but there is no command for non-Jews outside of Israel to keep Sabbath. And that's part of Israel's being set apart anyway.


Isaiah 56
1
Thus says the LORD: "Keep justice, and do righteousness, for soon my salvation will come, and my deliverance be revealed.


2 Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who holds it fast, who keeps the Sabbath, not profaning it, and keeps his hand from doing any evil."

3 Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the LORD say, "The LORD will surely separate me from his people"; and let not the eunuch say, "Behold, I am a dry tree."

4 For thus says the LORD: "To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose the things that please me and hold fast my covenant,

5 I will give in my house and within my walls a monument and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that shall not be cut off.

6 "And the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD, to minister to him, to love the name of the LORD, and to be his servants, everyone who keeps the Sabbath and does not profane it, and holds fast my covenant--

7 these I will bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer; their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples."

8 The Lord GOD, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, declares,"I will gather yet others to him besides those already gathered."
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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And that's part of Israel's being set apart anyway.
Not much to hope for, but notice - "set apart". (later maybe "spiritual Israel")
Look all through the NT, (and OT/ Torah too),
and see who is set apart by God, for God's Own Purpose and Plan .
I know, this takes time. (No one can read all the Scriptures about "set apart" (nor should they) too quickly; and also not without asking God, the Author, what He means and IF HE wants to set you apart, or IF NOT, who does HE want to set apart).....
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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but all of the believers I know regard murder, lying, theft, sodomy as sin. They don't get offended when someone brings up pork or shrimp or keeping the Sabbath, though. Mostly, they just shake their heads at those who want to live under the yoke of the law
So, they shake their heads at those who regard murder, lying, theft, sodomy as sin ....
strange then,
... yes, strange....
 
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Faithfulandtrue

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Except for the kosher thing(new t says we don't have to do that anymore), I do agree that people seem to get mad when I say something is sinful if its something they do instead of repenting they want to fight you on it. For ex, (and some of you might try to bite my head off but try to see what I'm saying) i don't believe true Christian's knowing companies like Starbucks and target support gay agendas should still support those companies. There is no excuse for it and people reply with, "oh that's legalism" or " oh I can't live without my Starbucks!" Really?! One how is it legalism to simply not buy from these places knowing your money will be supporting their causes weither a small percentage or big. And two how can we claim we would give our lives for Christ when we can't even give up our little luxury not even give up coffee just Starbucks coffee. I mean come on!
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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You might be wrong about the 'kosher' thing. But no worries - this post is
concerning companies that do and support evil,
several 'pastors' / 'deacons'/ 'elders'/ 'members'/ in some assemblies have
told me straight out that "IF we tell people the TRUTH, it would RUIN the economy".
(so much of the economy is based on evil)

From their viewpoint, of course, that is 'true'.
From knowing what I know about the companies, I agree it would drastically upset the economy. (but for the better of everyone)

=======================================
"Except for the kosher thing(new t says we don't have to do that anymore), I do agree that people seem to get mad when I say something is sinful if its something they do instead of repenting they want to fight you on it. For ex, (and some of you might try to bite my head off but try to see what I'm saying) i don't believe true Christian's knowing companies like Starbucks and target support gay agendas should still support those companies. There is no excuse for it and people reply with, "oh that's legalism" or " oh I can't live without my Starbucks!" Really?! One how is it legalism to simply not buy from these places knowing your money will be supporting their causes weither a small percentage or big. And two how can we claim we would give our lives for Christ when we can't even give up our little luxury not even give up coffee just Starbucks coffee. I mean come on!"
 
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Starcrystal

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It's not about legalism. The pork and shrimp issue as I posted earlier is a health issue, plain and simple, proven by science..we could also go further and say 1 Corinthians 3:16 - 17 & 6:19 - 20

"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's
."

Now most people apply that to drugs, excessive alcohol, smoking, fornication, etc, but it speaks of the physical body being the temple, so why shouldn't it include food?
Our food is what fuels our body, keeps us going and if we put unclean food or food laden with antibiotics or poisons in our body that disturbs the bodies natural balance, and we know it, is it not a defilement of the body?

As for the Sabbath, it was never changed by anyone but man..even Paul didn't change it...he would preach on the Sabbaths - just because he did a couple things on Sunday never meant he changed the Sabbath..man later changed it, so now some people are literally forced to work Saturdays but most places get Sunday off.

Daniel 7:25 speaking of antichrist spirit:
"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws:"
 
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aiki

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It's not about legalism. The pork and shrimp issue as I posted earlier is a health issue, plain and simple, proven by science..we could also go further and say 1 Corinthians 3:16 - 17 & 6:19 - 20

"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's
."

Now most people apply that to drugs, excessive alcohol, smoking, fornication, etc, but it speaks of the physical body being the temple, so why shouldn't it include food?
Our food is what fuels our body, keeps us going and if we put unclean food or food laden with antibiotics or poisons in our body that disturbs the bodies natural balance, and we know it, is it not a defilement of the body?

There is no divine mandate commanding us to eat healthy food and only healthy food. I know many poor people who cannot afford antibiotic-free food. The live on cereal, Chef Boyardee, Kraft macaroni and the odd can of tuna. Some eat dog or cat food because they can't afford much else. Some are so financially desperate they eat refuse from garbage bins. Are they sinning when they do so? Is their poverty and the poor diet it entails a sin? I don't think so. Christ never condemned the poor for being poor.

As for the Sabbath, it was never changed by anyone but man..even Paul didn't change it...he would preach on the Sabbaths - just because he did a couple things on Sunday never meant he changed the Sabbath..man later changed it, so now some people are literally forced to work Saturdays but most places get Sunday off.

Every day is God's day. This is why Paul wrote:

Romans 14:4-10
4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.


It is the legalist who says, "You ought to observe the Lord's Day as I do." But as Paul writes here, "Who are you to judge another man's servant?" You observe the Sabbath as you like and I will observe it as I like. And God will be the Judge of us both; not me of you and not you of me. If I wish to esteem every day alike and you do not, we are free to differ in this regard. What is required is that we be fully convinced of the rightness of our way in our own mind before God.

Selah.
 
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Starcrystal

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There is no divine mandate commanding us to eat healthy food and only healthy food. I know many poor people who cannot afford antibiotic-free food. The live on cereal, Chef Boyardee, Kraft macaroni and the odd can of tuna. Some eat dog or cat food because they can't afford much else. Some are so financially desperate they eat refuse from garbage bins. Are they sinning when they do so? Is their poverty and the poor diet it entails a sin? I don't think so. Christ never condemned the poor for being poor.



Every day is God's day. This is why Paul wrote:

Romans 14:4-10
4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.


It is the legalist who says, "You ought to observe the Lord's Day as I do." But as Paul writes here, "Who are you to judge another man's servant?" You observe the Sabbath as you like and I will observe it as I like. And God will be the Judge of us both; not me of you and not you of me. If I wish to esteem every day alike and you do not, we are free to differ in this regard. What is required is that we be fully convinced of the rightness of our way in our own mind before God.

Selah.

True that poor people are forced to eat unhealthy food, but if you have access to healthy food and can afford, why not do so? It would make sense even to atheists to stay healthy. there are pagans that eat really healthy diets because they understand the health benefits of not eating contaminated foods..so it isn't some religious command, it is just common sense.

As for Sabbath, yes Paul wrote that, but it never changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.

To his own master he stands or falls....
For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.


Read between the lines there...Paul is truly emphasizing the spiritual over the physical, but what also is he saying?
 
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