Why is it so hard to beileve in Jesus Christ?????????

[razzelflabben]

That is actually my life verse

keep us posted and keep searching your heart and searching for God.

 

[Countryangel707]

I think one thingthat actually confused me, is when people say there is a different between mentally accepting the facts and accepting them with your heart. I read a commentary that the word mind and heart are used interchangeably, but I'm not sure if that is true. Another thing that confused me is some people say repentance is required to be saved and others say it isn't.

 

[razzelflabben]

I think one thingthat actually confused me, is when people say there is a different between mentally accepting the facts and accepting them with your heart. I read a commentary that the word mind and heart are used interchangeably, but I'm not sure if that is true. Another thing that confused me is some people say repentance is required to be saved and others say it isn't.

WEll, let's go with what scripture says....first about heart and mind. there are tons of passages and I'm not sure how to condense it so I will let you look up all the passages. A good way to start is to go to "strongs" website, look up Mark 12:30 and from there, click on the address, it will open a window that lists each word used and from there you can scroll down to a list of all the times that word is used in the bible. compare all those for Heart, then do the same for mind, then compare the two and you will see some differences. The "heart" of the issue is that the heart is the deep seated determination to follow no matter the cost. It defies reason, defies logic. The mind is all about logic and reason and can be manipulated. In fact, your mind is being manipulated now by the things of the past and the lies satan wants you to believe. The heart however is not so easily controlled. The heart is also where the deep seated desires lie. Think here about things like what compel you, what you are passionate about. Your passions come from someplace deeper than the mind and thoughts.

As to repentance....there are 83 passages in the Holman bible and 105 in the King James Version. With that many passages that tell us to repent, I'm going with repentance is important to God. Even the old testament sacrifices were for the purpose of confessing and repenting of our sins and as such, Hebrews tells us that Jesus is the new covenant, the better covenant, a covenant that does not replace repentance, but does replace animal sacrifice for that sin. IOW's we still need to apply the blood of the Lamb by repenting of our sins.

 

[Countryangel707]

WEll, let's go with what scripture says....first about heart and mind. there are tons of passages and I'm not sure how to condense it so I will let you look up all the passages. A good way to start is to go to "strongs" website, look up Mark 12:30 and from there, click on the address, it will open a window that lists each word used and from there you can scroll down to a list of all the times that word is used in the bible. compare all those for Heart, then do the same for mind, then compare the two and you will see some differences. The "heart" of the issue is that the heart is the deep seated determination to follow no matter the cost. It defies reason, defies logic. The mind is all about logic and reason and can be manipulated. In fact, your mind is being manipulated now by the things of the past and the lies satan wants you to believe. The heart however is not so easily controlled. The heart is also where the deep seated desires lie. Think here about things like what compel you, what you are passionate about. Your passions come from someplace deeper than the mind and thoughts.

As to repentance....there are 83 passages in the Holman bible and 105 in the King James Version. With that many passages that tell us to repent, I'm going with repentance is important to God. Even the old testament sacrifices were for the purpose of confessing and repenting of our sins and as such, Hebrews tells us that Jesus is the new covenant, the better covenant, a covenant that does not replace repentance, but does replace animal sacrifice for that sin. IOW's we still need to apply the blood of the Lamb by repenting of our sins.

So it's like my mind is being manipulated by the lies of satan but my heart is the thing that keeps telling me that the facts of Christ are true.

 

[razzelflabben]

So it's like my mind is being manipulated by the lies of satan but my heart is the thing that keeps telling me that the facts of Christ are true.

Yep...and it is the belief of the heart that God honors, but you still want to look for that guarantee of the evidence of the HS in your life, that is God's way of assuring us we have it right.

 

[oi_antz]

Another thing that confused me is some people say repentance is required to be saved and others say it isn't.

Can you please show examples of someone saying that repentance is not required, to be saved? This sounds like a concern, a possibly misleading false doctrine, and I would like to know about it. Do you have a URL to an article where this is explained?

 

[oi_antz]

So it's like my mind is being manipulated by the lies of satan but my heart is the thing that keeps telling me that the facts of Christ are true.

If this is the truth, then it will come right when the information becomes available. I have noticed too, that I learn things after I would have liked to, but then I have to accept also that God's timing is perfect. As time goes on, it is reassuring to see how the mistakes we make in ignorance can actually work to make us stronger.

 

[razzelflabben]

Can you please show examples of someone saying that repentance is not required, to be saved? This sounds like a concern, a possibly misleading false doctrine, and I would like to know about it. Do you have a URL to an article where this is explained?

I don't know of an article or what the poster is referring to specifically, but a lot of people believe that since Jesus paid our debt, we don't need to do anything, including but not limited to repenting. It is a false doctrine in the church, but one I am familiar with.

 

[oi_antz]

since Jesus paid our debt

This is interesting too, since I actually have not found scripture to support this doctrine. Perhaps you have, and if so, that would be valuable for me to know. Thanks!

 

[razzelflabben]

This is interesting too, since I actually have not found scripture to support this doctrine. Perhaps you have, and if so, that would be valuable for me to know. Thanks!

There are several verses that are used to support the doctrine of Jesus paying our debt, but I don't know of any passage that says it directly. The idea comes from the whole teaching about death being the debt owed for sin....Rom 6:23 and also from the notion that Jesus is the one who atones for our sins...again this is the same idea just not the same wording. In fact, we can go to I Cor. 13 and see that Love (remember God is Love) keeps no record of wrongs, again, the idea that Jesus pays our debt. Another place in scripture where we see this idea of paid the debt owed, comes from the accounting word "reconciliation" and there are several passages that talk about reconciliation or reconciling us to God.

I really don't want to get off topic by going into too much depth as to where the doctrine comes from but that is a decent start without getting to indepth to get us off topic.

 

[Countryangel707]

I do believe the Lord just revealed something to me. i was watching the movie fireproof and i realized my own selfishness and how the only thing i wanted was for the Lord to save me from Hell. i havent really wanted a realionship with Him. i am now praying that the Lord will continue to help me and will transform my heart into loving Him for more than what He can and already has done. I pray that He will help me to turn from my selfishness and heardhartedness.

 

[oi_antz]

There are several verses that are used to support the doctrine of Jesus paying our debt, but I don't know of any passage that says it directly. The idea comes from the whole teaching about death being the debt owed for sin....Rom 6:23 and also from the notion that Jesus is the one who atones for our sins...again this is the same idea just not the same wording. In fact, we can go to I Cor. 13 and see that Love (remember God is Love) keeps no record of wrongs, again, the idea that Jesus pays our debt. Another place in scripture where we see this idea of paid the debt owed, comes from the accounting word "reconciliation" and there are several passages that talk about reconciliation or reconciling us to God.

I really don't want to get off topic by going into too much depth as to where the doctrine comes from but that is a decent start without getting to indepth to get us off topic.

Ah alright then, yes I have seen those verses too, and have, as you have said, not found it stated explicitly in scripture. I have invested a lot of attention to finding support for the Penalty Substitution doctrine too, so it is best to not discuss it here. You might like to contribute to my investigation on the thread I dedicated to it: http://www.christianforums.com/threads/why-substitutionary-atonement.7890113/ , where specifically probably you will be able to ask how I can understand redemption/salvation without that doctrine, or why some particular scriptures do not necessitate it. I have come to view the gospel such that the writers of the bible do not make any statements that reveal their belief in that doctrine, and that the earliest statements which do, are from Church Fathers who were not personally taught by Jesus' disciples.

 

[oi_antz]

I do believe the Lord just revealed something to me. i was watching the movie fireproof and i realized my own selfishness and how the only thing i wanted was for the Lord to save me from Hell. i havent really wanted a realionship with Him. i am now praying that the Lord will continue to help me and will transform my heart into loving Him for more than what He can and already has done. I pray that He will help me to turn from my selfishness and heardhartedness.

This is good timing! I was today reading this verse in church and I made a note to show it to you:

Matthew 5:3 (NWT)
Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the Kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.

 

[razzelflabben]

I do believe the Lord just revealed something to me. i was watching the movie fireproof and i realized my own selfishness and how the only thing i wanted was for the Lord to save me from Hell. i havent really wanted a realionship with Him. i am now praying that the Lord will continue to help me and will transform my heart into loving Him for more than what He can and already has done. I pray that He will help me to turn from my selfishness and heardhartedness.

as long as you are willing, He will do it, cause that is also what He desires for you....may you discover the living God, full of wonder, power, grace and Love and in that, may you take your delight

 

[Countryangel707]

as long as you are willing, He will do it, cause that is also what He desires for you....may you discover the living God, full of wonder, power, grace and Love and in that, may you take your delight

yea. i am also praying that He will help me in being willing.I mean some day's i am alert and willing and then other days im just in a i don't care mood and that's what scares me.

 

[Countryangel707]

yea. i am also praying that He will help me in being willing.I mean some day's i am alert and willing and then other days im just in a i don't care mood and that's what scares me.

Is this normal?

 

[razzelflabben]

yea. i am also praying that He will help me in being willing.I mean some day's i am alert and willing and then other days im just in a i don't care mood and that's what scares me.

sounds like the ADD we fight in our son...but being willing and asking God will get you there, that is how He works, our willingness, HIs power and strength.

 

[razzelflabben]

Is this normal?

More normal than not normal....

 

[Countryangel707]

sounds like the ADD we fight in our son

I don't think I understand, sorry?

 

[razzelflabben]

I don't think I understand, sorry?

our son has Attention Deficit Disorder and that sounds like how he functions without his herbs to help his focus. But I also think that most people have that tendency, so no worries, just keep yielding more and more of yourself to God and ask Him to continue working on you.