Why is it OK?

[Jonathan Jarvis]

I was watching a TV programme about 70's TV showing the Black and White Minstrels.

I had a thought, why is it OK for men to dress up as women (and vice versa) on TV but not to black up?

The more I thought about it the more confused I got. I kept getting to reductio ad absurdum situations where actors would not be able to represent any one else other than themselves.

So I turned the question on its head. What is wrong with blacking up? Having a bit of knowledge of discrimination law - detriment to people in protected categories etc, the argument against blacking up seems valid, but applying the same criteria so does the argument for casting any member of a protected category in a negative light.

So just as we cringe today when seeing Laurence Olivier as Othello and the Black and White Minstrels will we be similarly embarrassed in 30 years time watching the likes of Les Dawson and Roy Barraclough as Cissie and Ada and more recent programmes such as Mrs Browns Boys.

 

[theFijian]

I think it's seen as being in poor taste.

As is the case with Mrs Brown's boys (not to mention not even remotely funny)

 

[magicaxeman]

I was watching a TV programme about 70's TV showing the Black and White Minstrels.

I had a thought, why is it OK for men to dress up as women (and vice versa) on TV but not to black up?

The more I thought about it the more confused I got. I kept getting to reductio ad absurdum situations where actors would not be able to represent any one else other than themselves.

So I turned the question on its head. What is wrong with blacking up? Having a bit of knowledge of discrimination law - detriment to people in protected categories etc, the argument against blacking up seems valid, but applying the same criteria so does the argument for casting any member of a protected category in a negative light.

So just as we cringe today when seeing Laurence Olivier as Othello and the Black and White Minstrels will we be similarly embarrassed in 30 years time watching the likes of Les Dawson and Roy Barraclough as Cissie and Ada and more recent programmes such as Mrs Browns Boys.

I dont cringe at any of these examples, sadly what the politically correct have missed is that emulation is often based on admiration, mimicry a form of flattery and in these cases it was either from one of those or in the case of Olivier necessity.

Far, Far to much emphasis is put on a persons colour, religion,gender & sexuality these days, none of these things are important and all detract from the person themselves as this is what we should be interested in, the person themself, with complete disregard for any of the afore mentioned attributes.

Yet oddly enough by completely disregarding a persons race, religion, gender or sex I am classed as both sexist and racist, where surely to do so means I am not at all either of those things?

Here it all ties in with the current culture of offence, everyone seems to get offended by what ever is said or shown and demand retribution and I sometimes wonder if its because we have run out of real & genuine things to complain about, real issues, abuse or discrimination back in the day when those things existed in spades.

The truth is todays issues are trivial by comparison and just plain trivial outright, no one has a backbone anymore, no one can seemingly sort out their own problems and cries to a nanny state to protect them from these vicious names they may be called or other such frivolities, what happened to "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never harm me" and why does someone get more jail time for calling someone a name than they do for beating their girlfriend to a pulp?

 

[Genersis]

Hmm.
I guess it's mainly due to the history behind blacking up. Mostly being used to demean black folk, stereotyping through the lens of the empowered white people.

I'm not sure if cross dressing has quite the same controversial history and power dynamic; but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of it being seen in a similar manner one day.

An interesting thing to think about.

 

[Oafman]

I dont cringe at any of these examples, sadly what the politically correct have missed is that emulation is often based on admiration, mimicry a form of flattery

And just as often based on mockery, or a freak show style curiosity. A black and white minstrels show entitled 'The Real Nigs' advertised the opportunity to "Come to the theatre and get a real look into what plantation life was like."

If this were a genuine attempt to educate people on history, then fine, but I think we all know that would not have been the tone at the show. This topic should not really be content for entertainment shows. An equivalent example might be a bunch of guys in stripey pyjamas, doing an Auschwitz-themed comedy show. Most of us would wonder whether or not that was appropriate.

So I do cringe when I see minstrels. Golliwogs too. We shouldn't be making light of such horrible history.

Far, Far to much emphasis is put on a persons colour, religion,gender & sexuality these days,

But far less emphasis is put on those than ever before, and far less prejudice based on those things exists in society. We have political correctness to thank for that.

Yet oddly enough by completely disregarding a persons race, religion, gender or sex I am classed as both sexist and racist, where surely to do so means I am not at all either of those things?

If you are truly disregarding those things, then whoever is accusing you of racism or sexism is wrong.

Here it all ties in with the current culture of offence, everyone seems to get offended by what ever is said or shown and demand retribution and I sometimes wonder if its because we have run out of real & genuine things to complain about, real issues, abuse or discrimination back in the day when those things existed in spades.

There are plenty of genuine things to complain about, and to fight against. Once we've completely eliminated all forms of prejudice, at all levels of society, then this point might stand. But that is going to take an extremely long time to achieve, if it's even possible at all.

The truth is todays issues are trivial by comparison and just plain trivial outright, no one has a backbone anymore, no one can seemingly sort out their own problems and cries to a nanny state to protect them from these vicious names they may be called or other such frivolities, what happened to "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never harm me" and why does someone get more jail time for calling someone a name than they do for beating their girlfriend to a pulp?

I don't think it's trivial that women are paid less than men for the same job. Its not trivial that people of certain ancestry will find it harder to get a job. And it's not trivial that people still face abuse based on their sexual preferences. These are big problems which continue to blight our society, and should not be dismissed to underestimated.

 

[magicaxeman]

Whilst I agree to a point on women's pay its still relatively speaking trivial when you think of the freedoms women have in this country that they don't have elsewhere.
Really? ethnic minorities are being cart blanche rejected for jobs because of their skin colour? I'm sorry but maybe in some executive companies but by and large its a level playing field, in fact if anything companies and institutions are now discriminating against white men and women by applying what they call positive discrimination and not even interviewing anyone not of the prescribed ethnic background and or sexuality.
As for abuse of gays? where!! I've never seen actual abuse of them in my life, never seen anyone beaten or driven out because of their sexuality.
I personally have no problem with what someone does with whom within the realms of legality behind closed doors, but there is not need to run down the street shouting about it or raise it up as something to be proud off, as Christians we all know its a sin and thats a biblical fact.
That doesn't mean we should hate LGBT people, even though what they do is an abomination in the eyes of God, but love them and show them the path to salvation.
But I do not accept gay marriage in any form, marriage is the joining of two people in the sight of God and as such is simply not permissible in his eyes.

Young people need to grasp exactly what abuse is before claiming it and abuse is a lot more than name calling, thats not abuse, thats life, I have suffered abuse in my life, real abuse, physical abuse for my faith when a teenager, being beaten by others because I was "God boy" the tag God boy or bible basher/jesus freak etc etc never bothered me that much, if anything over the years it strengthened me in the same way as plunging a hot sword into oil tempers it, strengthening it, giving it the ability to bend without breaking. But the beating and fear of beatings destroyed me, they and other serious abuse I suffered as a child have affected me all my life and still do to a degree today.