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Why is it always Darwinism?

Warden_of_the_Storm

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This is something I don't fully understand when I look on this forum.
Every time a Creationist of any stripe or someone who says they're 'critical of evolution' talks about the theory of evolution, they only ever refer to it as Darwinism.

Darwinian evolution is no longer the accepted model for the theory of evolution. It has been superseded by the modern synthesis, and there have been talks of replacing it with the extended evolutionary synthesis or even the post-modern synthesis.

So I have to ask: why is it always Darwinism that is railed against?
 

solid_core

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This is something I don't fully understand when I look on this forum.
Every time a Creationist of any stripe or someone who says they're 'critical of evolution' talks about the theory of evolution, they only ever refer to it as Darwinism.

Darwinian evolution is no longer the accepted model for the theory of evolution. It has been superseded by the modern synthesis, and there have been talks of replacing it with the extended evolutionary synthesis or even the post-modern synthesis.

So I have to ask: why is it always Darwinism that is railed against?
1. They use old oudated sources, thats why they did not have updated arguments or vocabulary

2. They do not like Darwin, personally. Because he got the idea. They do not realize that darwinism is a specific model inside broader evolutionary model, they use it as a synonym for macro evolution as such.
 
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Ophiolite

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This is something I don't fully understand when I look on this forum.
Every time a Creationist of any stripe or someone who says they're 'critical of evolution' talks about the theory of evolution, they only ever refer to it as Darwinism.

Darwinian evolution is no longer the accepted model for the theory of evolution. It has been superseded by the modern synthesis, and there have been talks of replacing it with the extended evolutionary synthesis or even the post-modern synthesis.

So I have to ask: why is it always Darwinism that is railed against?
This is not a direct answer to your question, but I think it is relevant. It is a brief note I wrote ten years ago, largely to myself, but I've posted it on one or two fora since. I can see a pedagogical argument against it, but I still think the political argument outweighs that.

Evolution – Is Darwinism Dead?
What we call something is, or at least should be, less important than what it is. Our understanding of evolutionary mechanisms is still far from complete and not fully integrated. Large steps have been taken over a century and a half. Is it important to mark those steps through different terminology? Important yes, but not necessarily essential.

Darwin's idea was accepted with surprising alacrity by the scientific community, supporting the claim by some that it was an idea whose time had come. (And Wallace’s independent derivation of the theory served to offer confirmation of that notion.) Yet by the turn of the century Darwinism was all but dead as people gravitated to mutation and the concepts of Mendel rediscovered by Bateman, de Vries and Corren. When the two concepts were fused in the 1930s and 40s did the resultant concept merit a new name? One could hardly call it Haldane/Huxley/Dhobzhanksy/Fisher/Simpson/Stebbins/Wright/ Mayrism, so the Modern Synthesis was born.

And now, more than half a century later, we've learnt even more about the mechanisms and processes, so much more that some people think a new name is in order. Is it?

I said at the outset that what we call something is, or at least should be, less important than what it is. But is this true? Darwin may have been the right man in the right place at the right time, but he ignited a revolution that is arguably of greater scientific importance than any other. His handful of principles still lies at the heart of evolutionary thought – descent with modification from a common ancestor. So my view is simple. Let's just call the current hypothesis and those that will develop in future, Darwinism. Direct, concise, effective.

And it has the secondary advantage that it will likely annoy the Creationists.


(Note: I've replaced a phrase, since it is, I think, disallowed by CF rules.)
 
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Hank77

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1. They use old oudated sources, thats why they did not have updated arguments or vocabulary
Can you be more specific as to who 'they' are because I can assure you that there are educated scientists who do take under consideration current information. If Darwin had, had the information that we do today he wouldn't have believed some of the things he did, his model would have looked different.
2. They do not like Darwin, personally. Because he got the idea. They do not realize that darwinism is a specific model inside broader evolutionary model, they use it as a synonym for macro evolution as such.
Really, they don't LIKE Darwin personally? lol
Yes, they do know that, but I agree that Darwinism is used as a synonym for Macro Evolution but also for Micro Evolution.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Yes, they do know that, but I agree that Darwinism is used as a synonym for Macro Evolution but also for Micro Evolution.

Except it's not. Darwinism refers, very specifically, to the original model of the theory of evolution. To use it to refer to macro and micro evolution (which is a ridiculous attempt at muddying the waters) is frankly insipid and also a very clear example of muddying the waters.
 
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Speedwell

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Can you be more specific as to who 'they' are because I can assure you that there are educated scientists who do take under consideration current information.
I seriously doubt it; not if they are competent scientists.
If Darwin had, had the information that we do today he wouldn't have believed some of the things he did, his model would have looked different.
True. It would look like the model in use today.

Really, they don't LIKE Darwin personally? lol
Yes, they do know that, but I agree that Darwinism is used as a synonym for Macro Evolution but also for Micro Evolution.
I don't think it's personal. Creationists are used to the absolute truth of authoritative scripture and regard Origin of Species as the evil analogue, a sort of AntiChrist Bible.
 
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Hank77

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I don't think it's personal. Creationists are used to the absolute truth of authoritative scripture and regard Origin of Species as the evil analogue, a sort of AntiChrist Bible.
What about all the Christians that believe God created but also believe in evolution?
 
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Speedwell

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What about all the Christians that believe God created but also believe in evolution?
You mean people like me? We're not on the Creationist side of the argument. Creationists try very hard to turn the debate of science vs. a literal interpretation of Genesis into a cosmic struggle between atheism and theism, but that is nothing but shallow fraud.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Any type of evolutionary theory is an offspring of Darwin. Since the "theory"that things changed from their original state by anything other than God's Creation was propelled into modern thought by Darwin.

But it's not Darwinism. Darwinism specifically refers to the original model of evolution put forth by Darwin, which has since be supplanted by the modern synthesis.
 
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pitabread

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Any type of evolutionary theory is an offspring of Darwin. Since the "theory"that things changed from their original state by anything other than God's Creation was propelled into modern thought by Darwin.

Not really. There were ideas of evolutionary change before Darwin along. For example, Jean-Baptiste Lamarck proposed a form of evolution (now called "Lamarckism") decades before Darwin.

People also always forget the work of Alfred Wallace who independently came up with the same idea (natural selection) that Darwin did. It's just that history has given Darwin all the credit.
 
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Hank77

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You mean people like me? We're not on the Creationist side of the argument. Creationists try very hard to turn the debate of science vs. a literal interpretation of Genesis into a cosmic struggle between atheism and theism, but that is nothing but shallow fraud.
Are you a Christian?
Not all Christians who believe in evolution and that God created believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis. Are the days literal 24 hr days? At all Christians believe they are.
You know as well as I do that there are YECs, OECs, and IDs and all are creationists.
 
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But if there was nothing to be supplanted it wouldn't even be anything. Kinda like God made a biscuit and Charles says "no, that dough developed from a yeast without a cook" and its called 'yeastification'. Who laid the foundation of that theory? Ol Charles ruined the biscuit so he'll always get the due credit.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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But if there was nothing to be supplanted it wouldn't even be anything. Kinda like God made a biscuit and Charles says "no, that dough developed from a yeast without a cook" and its called 'yeastification'. Who laid the foundation of that theory? Ol Charles ruined the biscuit so he'll always get the due credit.

... what?
That's an incredibly bad analogy. Like... wow, that's just horrendous.
 
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pitabread

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But if there was nothing to be supplanted it wouldn't even be anything. Kinda like God made a biscuit and Charles says "no, that dough developed from a yeast without a cook" and its called 'yeastification'. Who laid the foundation of that theory? Ol Charles ruined the biscuit so he'll always get the due credit.

Here, read this: History of evolutionary thought - Wikipedia

Ideas of biological evolution pre-date Darwin.
 
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Speedwell

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Any type of evolutionary theory is an offspring of Darwin. Since the "theory"that things changed from their original state by anything other than God's Creation was propelled into modern thought by Darwin.
The idea itself is of some antiquity and Darwin wasn't the only one working on it at the time--he just happened to get to press first. Probably the most important factor behind propelling the idea into modern thought was disproving the "biblical" age of the Earth during the century leading up to Origin of Species.
 
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AvisG

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But it's not Darwinism. Darwinism specifically refers to the original model of evolution put forth by Darwin, which has since be supplanted by the modern synthesis.
People, including me, casually refer to "Christianity" as though it were some monolithic entity that it isn't and we know it isn't. We likewise refer to "Darwinism" as though it were some monolithic entity even though we are fully aware of the various permutations of evolutionary theory. Intelligent Design is routinely referred to as "Creationism" even though this is inaccurate. Unless the debate concerns some narrower, specific aspect of Christianity, evolutionary theory or Intelligent Design, where fine distinctions are important, these sorts of generalizations strike me as harmless and not necessarily indicative of a lack of knowledge or understanding on the part of someone who uses them.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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People, including me, casually refer to "Christianity" as though it were some monolithic entity that it isn't and we know it isn't. We likewise refer to "Darwinism" as though it were some monolithic entity even though we are fully aware of the various permutations of evolutionary theory. Intelligent Design is routinely referred to as "Creationism" even though this is inaccurate. Unless the debate concerns some narrower, specific aspect of Christianity, evolutionary theory or Intelligent Design, where fine distinctions are important, these sorts of generalizations strike me as harmless and not necessarily indicative of a lack of knowledge or understanding on the part of someone who uses them.

To be honest, I can accept that logic, in part.
When you're talking generalization, eh, it's fair game.
When you're specifically talking science and are talking about a specific part of science, and you (general you, not a specific 'you') use it to try and refer to all science, it's a problem.
 
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Speedwell

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Intelligent Design is routinely referred to as "Creationism" even though this is inaccurate.
It is accurate. Intelligent Design was developed by the Discovery Institute as a "Trojan Horse" for biblical creationism. And no, that is not some conspiracy theory. They have been quite open about their intentions.
 
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Speedwell

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Are you a Christian?
Not all Christians who believe in evolution and that God created believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis. Are the days literal 24 hr days? At all Christians believe they are.
You know as well as I do that there are YECs, OECs, and IDs and all are creationists.
The distinction is whether the Christian believes that the science of our origins is wrong (or possibly even a lie) or not.
 
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