createdtoworship
In the grip of grace
- Mar 13, 2004
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the arguments were not about Christ's diety but about His physical resurrection
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No you cannot prove God even exists. If you cannot prove that you cannot prove God was raised from the dead.
God doesn't send anyone there. They skip and dance there on their own.
Ok, I'm an athiest but lets assume hell exists.
Ok, I'm an athiest but lets assume hell exists.
I die unsaved, but I die with the wish that after death "I don't want to go to hell, so I'm not going"
So my question to you is
Is god going to still send me to hell for my unbelief, even after I have chosen not to go?
Of course he is. Your idea that anybody would chose willingly to go to a place of enternal torture is absouletly ridiculous.
That is also a matter of faith and not provable as fact.the arguments were not about Christ's diety but about His physical resurrection
Those whose consequence is hell will have put themselves there by their actions not be "sent" there by God.
We all have the power to choose.
If one has chosen to mock God and disdain His children then I would imagine some would very much like for Him not to exist nor the consequence of their actions be reaped.
I think too many Christians ASSUME hell exists, without ever checking the bible to see if it actually exists. Romans 6:23 says that the wages of sin is death. If this is true, how could the wages of sin be to spend eternity conscious in the fire pit of hell?
Well, I quoted Romans, a letter of theology and you quoted The Apocalypse of John, a letter cram packed full of symbolism. Also, your passage is referring to those who worship the beast and its image, not every person who ever died since Adam. You also missed the harvest of the earth in the next section.I see your Romans 6:23 and raise you a Revelation 14:9-11
And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.
So where does this leave us?
That is also a matter of faith and not provable as fact.
The mere action of unbelief is not worthy of condemnation to hell. Would you condem your own children to hell if they chose not to accept you as a parent? .....
The mere action of unbelief is not worthy of condemnation to hell.
What of those who have never heard of Christ or the bible?
What of those brought up in families with a different religion?
Those who died before they could even comprehend the very concept of god?
That is also a matter of faith and not provable as fact.
And your opinion on the matter equals what, exactly?
"without Faith it is impossible to please G-d."
Don't ask me to defend that, I can't. I can't say I understand it much, either. As well as I know G-d, even in my greatest moments of clarity I've never gotten revelation specific to this one point.
It's pretty simple to accept it as true though, and it is a basic tenet
If your questions were sincere, and came from heart that didn't think it knows everything already, you could be very surprised by the answers you would get.
But they did and they are.
"Fortunately" for us.........
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
What of those who have never heard of Christ or the bible?
What of those brought up in families with a different religion?
Those who died before they could even comprehend the very concept of god?
Hell is necessary for those souls who don't!!, WANT to enjoy Heaven.Why is hell even necessary?
Why would a loving God punish the majority of people
for eternity, ETERNITY! for the sin of not accepting His love?
No, see - 'choosing not to go to hell' <- focuses on the WRONG Target.Don't tell me that we send ourselves to hell. We don't.
I'm choosing right now not to go.
Finally you're Admitting the truth!But according to the Bible, I'm going anyway.
God
becomes vengeful, unloving, and unmerciful.
Or is there something I'm missing?
Well, I quoted Romans, a letter of theology and you quoted The Apocalypse of John, a letter cram packed full of symbolism. Also, your passage is referring to those who worship the beast and its image, not every person who ever died since Adam. You also missed the harvest of the earth in the next section.
But if you wish, this leaves us tied, 1:1.
Round 2!
John 3:16, For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
This doesn't say whoever believe in him shall not be tormented in fire for all eternity, but will have eternal life.
Why do you want eternal torment to be true anyway? Is it because you want the Christians to have a doctrine that is easy to scorn?
You are correct. "later on it is mentioned what the condemnation is....the lake of fire." And John tells us what he means by the lake of fire, it is the second death. You should have bolded that part as well. Then you wouldn't have read right past it.if you keep reading in john 3 verse 18-21 it says that they are condemned when they love darkness.
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
later on it is mentioned what the condemnation is....the lake of fire.
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:12-15
did you even watch the vid?
There are many points to contend with before shoving this as non provable. It is intellectually dishonest to say it is not provable before listening to the arguments.
No it is not. It cannot be proven as fact that Jesus ever existed.
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