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Why is God so hidden? Why must we seek Him to Find Him?

DogmaHunter

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Unlike goblins, there is a logical theory for Gods existence.

I've heared many theists claim that.

But when asked for that "theory", all that I get is retreat, avoidance or a classic textbook collection of logical fallacies.

Since these gods are by definition objectively "hidden, invisible, undetectable", any such "theory" will be indistinguishable from non-existent things.

Mere words are never enough to actually demonstrate the existence of a thing.
 
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Extraneous

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Yes, science and politics are often that way too. I dont remember the last time someone claimed that a goblin put love in their heart. WE are talking about the creator here, not some magical fairy tale. God allowed us to feel the sting of love. He allowed us to experience the pain of rebellious children and cheating spouses. This is actually an example that God gave us, so we can learn about love. Only when you feel it for yourself can you understand it. These things represent how we treat God. Its to help us grow in knowledge of Him. God is logical then.
 
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SteveB28

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"Feel it for yourself"? That's personal testimony or revelation - by definition, it cannot stand as evidence!
 
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Extraneous

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"Feel it for yourself"? That's personal testimony or revelation - by definition, it cannot stand as evidence!

If the court could look into a persons mind to decide guilt or innocence, they would not be fallible in their judgment. We however know they cannot, and that they are fallible. You want to put God, who is holy, under mans faulty court of judgment. You also want to put God under microscope instead of faith. God demands faith.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Yes, science and politics are often that way too.

Politics? I don't see what politics have to do with this. I'll just ignore it.

Science? No, not even by a long shot. The very foundation of science is testability, verifiability, falsifiability. 3 things that are downright taboo in religion, which is why it demands "faith".

I dont remember the last time someone claimed that a goblin put love in their heart. WE are talking about the creator here, not some magical fairy tale.

The entire point of bringing up goblins and alike, is that there is no objective difference between these claims...

Just because the content of certain untestable claims is more appealing to you, for whatever reason, is irrelevant.

God allowed us to feel the sting of love.

Another claim.

He allowed us to experience the pain of rebellious children and cheating spouses.

Another claim.

This is actually an example that God gave us, so we can learn about love.

Another claim.

Only when you feel it for yourself can you understand it.

Another claim.
Also, "feelings" are not a rational basis for believing something. hence: appeal to emotion.

These things represent how we treat God. Its to help us grow in knowledge of Him. God is logical then.

No, logical fallacies don't result in logical models.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Aaaaaaaand we're back to Steve's original question.....

Why is "faith" seen as a virtue in religion, while it is seen as the hallmark of quackery and superstition in just about any other aspect of life and society?
 
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Extraneous

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Is your life so boring, that you would come to a christian forum, to argue against faith in God, which isn't even possible, let alone rational?

Who will you convince? Not me, and not anyone who is seeking, because they will seek anyway and find out for themselves. What end do you see coming from your debate? Just wondering what, if any, logical reason you would have in undertaking such a futile enterprise?
 
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DogmaHunter

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Is your life so boring, that you would come to a christian forum, to argue against faith in God, which isn't even possible, let alone rational?

Is your case so weak, that in order to avoid discussing these points, you have to resort to questioning why I'm here to discuss these points at all?


General interest in discussing the topic.
General entertainment.
General interest in the way the mind of the believer works.

Not that my motivation is relevant in any way...
 
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DogmaHunter

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I believe that arguing against God is actually a deep down need to know him. I argued against God a little.

I'm not arguing "against god".

If I'm even arguing "against" anything, I'ld say that it is against blind faith and superstition.
 
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Extraneous

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My question was irrelevant. My apologies.
 
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Extraneous

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I'm not arguing "against god".

If I'm even arguing "against" anything, I'ld say that it is against blind faith and superstition.

My faith is not blind. You are blind. You cant see my faith with your eyes and so you pretend it doesn't exist. You say love is not logical, you deny the life that is in anyone you love. You devalue them with your scientific calculator, and they are nothing but things. I cannot believe how blind you are to the life all around you. You may see animals and plants, but you cant see the human soul. Isnt that a bit sad?
 
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