Why is faith a virtue?

[DarkProphet]

[BIBLE]20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.[/BIBLE]

Jesus basically is saying that to believe without proof is better then to believe with proof. My question is why is this a virtue?
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[childofGod31]

Because without faith it is impossible to please God. It is impossible to be saved.

So what is more important than being saved? Nothing.

So if without faith it's impossible to be saved, then having faith is worth more than anything (because it enables you to be saved).

 

[DarkProphet]

Because without faith it is impossible to please God. It is impossible to be saved.

So what is more important than being saved? Nothing.

So if without faith it's impossible to be saved, then having faith is worth more than anything (because it enables you to be saved).

I don't view being saved as being important because I don't believe in being saved. So I find it hard to follow this line of reasoning. Is there any specific reason faith pleases God?

 

[childofGod31]

Ok, let me try again:

How can you be saved without faith?

There is no proof that Jesus is the Son of God. Yet, in order to be saved, you have to believe that. In other words, you have to have faith. If you don't have faith, you can't believe it, therefore, you can't receive salvation.

 

[DarkProphet]

There is no proof that Jesus is the Son of God. Yet, in order to be saved, you have to believe that.

I was taught to aways ask for proof so to me this seems like asking for a lot.

 

[childofGod31]

It is asking a lot. That is why faith is something special. Not everyone can attain it in abundance. It's a spiritual world. Bible said: physical things are temporary, but things we can't see are eternal. Some philosophers say that the spiritual world we cannot see is more real than this physical world that we do see. I tend to agree, but it so hard to understand it with my mind. I just think that it must be true even though I don't understand it.

It's like trying to picture a fourth dimension. If somebody described it, I still wouldn't be able to picture it because it's so not something I am used to.

 

[ebia]

Ok, let me try again:

How can you be saved without faith?

There is no proof that Jesus is the Son of God. Yet, in order to be saved, you have to believe that. In other words, you have to have faith. If you don't have faith, you can't believe it, therefore, you can't receive salvation.

You seem to regard belief and faith as the same thing. They are not. Faith is believing in God, and trusting him.

 

[DarkProphet]

Faith is believing in God, and trusting him.

This definition of faith brings up another problem. Why do you trust God? If God were a malevolent trickster then how would you know?

 

[ebia]

This definition of faith brings up another problem. Why do you trust God? If God were a malevolent trickster then how would you know?

If he were a good enough trickster then I guess you wouldn't. But everything I know about him rings true, so I choose to trust.

 

[childofGod31]

Ok, I have faith because I believe that God is good.


If you know that your spouse is good and somebody came and told you that he murdered somebody in cold blood, would you believe that person?

Woudn't you doubt that person and be convinced that there has to be a mistake and that you spouse just woudn't/couldn't do that?

Well, it's kind of like that. You learn about God's character. You read about it. He says that He is good. He said that He is love. He said that we should trust Him. Then He sent His Son to die for us. Then He comforts us when we need it. Then He answers prayers and helps us in our need. Then He teaches that we should turn the other cheek and that we should forgive our enemies. This sounds like a good God to me. So whatever is in the Bible that is negative about Him, I am sure there is a good explanation somewhere. And I am sure we will know it when we get to heaven.

And yes, there is always a possibility that God is tricking us. (Kind of like a con man tricking people who think he is very nice.)

But imagine how hurt your spouse would be if you didn't believe him/her? If you actually thought that he killed somebody even though you know him/her so well?

In the same way, God values our faith. He knows that we are taking a risk when we trust Him. And He loves us so much more for that (if that were possible, I believe God's love is perfect).

 

[DarkProphet]

Ok, I have faith because I believe that God is good.

Why do you believe that God is good?

In the same way, God values our faith. He knows that we are taking a risk when we trust Him. And He loves us so much more for that (if that were possible, I believe God's love is perfect).

Why does God value faith?

 

[Deren]

[bible]20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.[/bible]​

Jesus basically is saying that to believe without proof is better then to believe with proof. My question is why is this a virtue?​

Actually, that is not what Jesus is saying at all. Otherwise, Jesus would not have invited Thomas to touch him at all (v. 27). Rather, Jesus was only mildly chiding Thomas for relying on his physical senses to confirm something that Thomas was well aware of long ago when Jesus predicted that he would not only die, but be resurrected as well. In fact, it was Thomas who was willing to say, "Let us also go, that we may die with Him" (Jn. 11:16), because he knew the Jews were out to kill Him. Besides, Jesus doesn't say that those who believed without seeing were necessarily more blessed than those like Thomas, otherwise, once again, Jesus would not have offered Himself to Thomas in the manner that He did and then say, "and be not unbelieving, but believing."

So, faith is a virtue, regardless of whether one sees or doesn't see the proof, simply because the grounds for genuine faith has a verifiable object associated with it, namely Jesus Christ. Furthermore, some people's faith is not as mature as others, and hence God provides certain events to occur for the express purpose of strengthening it. And what occurred with Thomas is merely one example of that provision.

 

[Catherineanne]

[bible]20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.[/bible]​

When the gospels were written Jesus was gone, and the apostles were either dead or very old. It made sense to tell the new generation of believers that they would be blessed for their beliefs, even though they had not seen what the previous generation had seen.

And this has remained true ever since.

Had they said unless you have the same proof as was offered to Thomas, you should not believe, then our faith would have died within the first century after Christ. Clearly it did not, so there must be something else going on, which we attribute to the Spirit of God working in his church.

It makes no logical sense for a flegling faith to commend Thomas' demands of proof at this stage, as you would perhaps now prefer it to have done. Such an attitude would be anachronistic; based on the modern worship of scientific proof and evidence. Which is itself very much faith based, interestingly enough. Believe in the scientist and you believe the evidence. Discredit the scientist and his whole opus goes out the window.

 

[childofGod31]

Why do you believe that God is good?

Because He said so. (Why do you believe a friend if he said he didn't do it (if accused of something)? Just because.) It's the same way here. He is my friend because of all He did for me. And because He said that He is good, I believe Him.

Why does God value faith?

- because only by faith you are saved. In other words, God cannot help us if we don't have faith. The connection of this physical world to God's spiritual world (which we can't touch or see) is through faith. If you don't have that connection, God cannot have a relationship with you. God cannot give you a new birth. That is why it's important.

 

[MethodMan]

Faith has 3 main factors. A knowlege of God, Assent to His lordship and most important, Trust.

Although some would deny, all have been made aware, but Knowlege of God is more than that. One must take the time to know God through His Word and His Creation.

Assent to His Lordship is where most people have problems. They want to run their own lives the way they see fit. They reject God's Will for their lives; somethimes to the point they deny knowlege.

Most important is Trust. Trust that God will meet you at your true need; not something we think we need. He sent His Son for He is Just, and sent the Holy Spirit to guide.

Is He asking a lot? You bet. But what He offers in return:

"No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"