Why Is Darwinism So Dangerous? (5)

[bhsmte]

Darwinist creationism teaches that ONLY naturalistic processes were involved in the creation of humanity. Collins rejects that, as do I.

How about you? Do you agree that humanity is the result of ONLY naturalistic processes?

You mean the TOE mentions only natural processes.

Let me put it this way. I am atheist towards the Christian God and am 99% certain this God does not exist, by looking at the realities of the world we live in and a thorough examination of the NT from a historical perspective. When it comes to a universal, non personal God, I am 90% certain this God also does not exist, but give it a better shot than the Christian God.

With that being said, no, I do not believe at this time (unless objective evidence becomes available) that any God and especially the Christian God, was behind anything.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Darwinist creationism teaches that ONLY naturalistic processes were involved in the creation of humanity. Collins rejects that, as do I.

How about you? Do you agree that humanity is the result of ONLY naturalistic processes?

There is no such thing as Darwinist creationism. There is a scientific study of evolution, which the scientists themselves don't call "darwinism". So that raises the question as to what are you talking about?

Then, lets think about the science. Take a scientist who believes in God, and speaks scientifically about evolution. He doesn't, particularly, talk about God in his scientific papers. So you accuse him of being an atheist? That is unwarranted.

There was a natural phenomenon of meteors coming to earth, and its recorded in Joshua:

Josh 10:11
11 And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Beth-horon, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.
KJV

Was that a natural phenomenon or was God involved in the occurrence?

Could it possibly be that it was both natural and of God?

 

[justlookinla]

You mean the TOE mentions only natural processes.

Let me put it this way. I am atheist towards the Christian God and am 99% certain this God does not exist, by looking at the realities of the world we live in and a thorough examination of the NT from a historical perspective. When it comes to a universal, non personal God, I am 90% certain this God also does not exist, but give it a better shot than the Christian God.

With that being said, no, I do not believe at this time (unless objective evidence becomes available) that any God and especially the Christian God, was behind anything.

Ok, thanks.

 

[justlookinla]

There is the TOE, which Collins fully accepts, and it only speaks of natural processes. If you don't want to accept it, then don't.

If you don't want to accept the fact, per his website, that he rejects the view that only naturalistic processes created mankind, then don't.

 

[bhsmte]

If you don't want to accept the fact, per his website, that he rejects the view that only naturalistic processes created mankind, then don't.

I fully accept his personal decision to believe a God was involved in evolution and have stated this more than once.

And my point was this; Collins clearly accepts the TOE as stated, from a scientific perspective as being accurate. If you don't want to accept the TOE as accurate, then don't.

This is independent of the fact, of whether one believes a God was involved, because the theory states what it does.

 

[justlookinla]

There is no such thing as Darwinist creationism. There is a scientific study of evolution, which the scientists themselves don't call "darwinism". So that raises the question as to what are you talking about?

From Wikipedia.....

"Darwinism is a theory of biological evolution developed by Charles Darwin and others, stating that all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations that increase the individual's ability to compete, survive, and reproduce."​

Then, lets think about the science. Take a scientist who believes in God, and speaks scientifically about evolution. He doesn't, particularly, talk about God in his scientific papers. So you accuse him of being an atheist? That is unwarranted.

If the scientist attributes the creation of the complex and varied life we have today ONLY by naturalistic means, then the creationist viewpoint of that scientist is inherently atheistic.

There was a natural phenomenon of meteors coming to earth, and its recorded in Joshua:

Josh 10:11
11 And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Beth-horon, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.
KJV

Was that a natural phenomenon or was God involved in the occurrence?

Could it possibly be that it was both natural and of God?

What does this have to do with the viewpoint that mankind is totally, completely, solely the result of naturalistic mechanisms acting upon a single life from from long long ago?

 

[justlookinla]

I fully accept his personal decision to believe a God was involved in evolution and have stated this more than once.

And my point was this; Collins clearly accepts the TOE as stated, from a scientific perspective as being accurate. If you don't want to accept the TOE as accurate, then don't.

This is independent of the fact, of whether one believes a God was involved, because the theory states what it does.

Collins theistic view of creation is incompatible with this inherently atheistic view of creation....

"Darwinism is a theory of biological evolution developed by Charles Darwin and others, stating that all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations that increase the individual's ability to compete, survive, and reproduce. "​

 

[bhsmte]

Collins theistic view of creation is incompatible with this inherently atheistic view of creation....

"Darwinism is a theory of biological evolution developed by Charles Darwin and others, stating that all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations that increase the individual's ability to compete, survive, and reproduce. "
​

Tell that to him, he clearly supports the TOE and quite strongly.

 

[USincognito]

From Wikipedia.....

"Darwinism is a theory of biological evolution developed by Charles Darwin and others, stating that all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations that increase the individual's ability to compete, survive, and reproduce."​

Maybe you should quote the important part:

The meaning of "Darwinism" has changed over time, and varies depending on its context.[4] In the United States, the term "Darwinism" is often used by creationists as a pejorative term in reference to beliefs such as atheistic naturalism, but in the United Kingdom the term has no negative connotations, being freely used as a shorthand for the body of theory dealing with evolution, and in particular, evolution by natural selection.[5]​

Darwinism, as used by American Creationists, exists only in their fevered imagination. The quote above, probably from a British editor, says Darwinism is no different than the theory of evolution.

 

[USincognito]

Collins theistic view of creation is incompatible with this inherently atheistic view of creation....

"Darwinism is a theory of biological evolution developed by Charles Darwin and others, stating that all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations that increase the individual's ability to compete, survive, and reproduce. "​

There's nothing about "creation" in that spam.

 

[bhsmte]

Maybe you should quote the important part:

The meaning of "Darwinism" has changed over time, and varies depending on its context.[4] In the United States, the term "Darwinism" is often used by creationists as a pejorative term in reference to beliefs such as atheistic naturalism, but in the United Kingdom the term has no negative connotations, being freely used as a shorthand for the body of theory dealing with evolution, and in particular, evolution by natural selection.[5]
​

Darwinism, as used by American Creationists, exists only in their fevered imagination. The quote above, probably from a British editor, says Darwinism is no different than the theory of evolution.

Ah yes, the complete picture usually helps to clear things up.

 

[bhsmte]

There's nothing about "creation" in that spam.

Just likes to add a pinch here and a pinch there and what do you get; justlookinlaism.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Just likes to add a pinch here and a pinch there and what do you get; justlookinlaism.

Has he entered the wall of FSTDT yet?

 

[bhsmte]

Has he entered the wall of FSTDT yet?

We need a different one for just. Like; fundies try to convince themselves of the craziest things.

 

[PsychoSarah]

We need a different one for just. Like; fundies try to convince themselves of the craziest things.

Considering the absolute insane things I recently read on that site, I think it would fit.

 

[justlookinla]

Tell that to him, he clearly supports the TOE and quite strongly.

He doesn't support the Darwinist creationist version that humanity is the result of only naturalistic processes. And quite strongly.

From the BioLogos site.....

"We at BioLogos believe that God used the process of evolution to create all the life on earth today. While we accept the science of evolution, we emphatically reject evolutionism. Evolutionism is the atheistic worldview that says life developed without God and without purpose. Instead, we agree with Christians who adhere to Intelligent Design and Creationism that the God of the Bible created the universe and all life. Christians disagree, however, on how God created. Young Earth Creationists believe that God created just 6,000 to 10,000 years ago and disagree with much of mainstream science. Supporters of Intelligent Design accept more of evolutionary science, but argue that some features of life are best explained by direct intervention by an intelligent agent rather than by God’s regular way of working through natural processes. We at BioLogos agree with the modern scientific consensus on the age of the earth and evolutionary development of all species, seeing these as descriptions of how God created. The term BioLogos comes from the Greek words bios (life) and logos (word), referring to the opening of the Gospel of John. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made.”​

Are you familiar with the term "evolutionism"? "Evolutionism is the atheistic worldview that says life developed without God and without purpose."

That's precisely the same viewpoint as Darwinist creationism.

 

[PsychoSarah]

-_- look, how many times do I have to repeat this to get it in your head? Evolution as taught in schools is not inherently atheistic, end of story, no gods mentioned as existing or not.

 

[justlookinla]

Maybe you should quote the important part:

The meaning of "Darwinism" has changed over time, and varies depending on its context.[4] In the United States, the term "Darwinism" is often used by creationists as a pejorative term in reference to beliefs such as atheistic naturalism, but in the United Kingdom the term has no negative connotations, being freely used as a shorthand for the body of theory dealing with evolution, and in particular, evolution by natural selection.[5]​

Darwinism, as used by American Creationists, exists only in their fevered imagination. The quote above, probably from a British editor, says Darwinism is no different than the theory of evolution.

I've quoted the most important part. The part I've quoted quite frequently addresses the viewpoint that all life, every single living life form, is the result solely, completely, totally, only by a series of naturalistic processes acting upon a single life form from long long ago.

Darwinist creationism is simply another viewpoint of how the complexity and variety of life exists today and is inherently atheistic.

 

[justlookinla]

There's nothing about "creation" in that spam.

There's something about creation in Darwinism.

 

[justlookinla]

Ah yes, the complete picture usually helps to clear things up.

The complete picture is very simple. You follow a creationist philosophy which teaches you're a cosmic accident.