Why is crossdressing and non-conformity to either gender not accepted in Church?

[Ernst Junger]

It's not something I feel I actually have a female body. And I just prefer to dress that way that it makes me look better than drab boy clothes that don't suit the body GOD gave me. I don't identify male or female neither does my sex.

Like to get all sexy for church eh?


What a bunch of drama nonsense.

 

[justagirl12]

look up PAIS. It's an intersex disorder. When we feel female be it grade 2 or grade 6 we aren't transgender. If I were intended to be a traditional male I'd be one... GOD gave me a female body as well as what was at birth.
I don't feel female. But I like how I look. Like a haircut one might prefer. Or an outfit I may prefer but being a female is a whole other story just as being a male is.
Never refer to myself as more lesbian people think I'm lesbian when I'm out with a girl...
I guess I nderstand it seemed like a sin so that's why it wasn't allowed. Upsetting to me but I understand.

 

[phishin4min]

not in that sense I have an intersex condition called pais. grade 2. Plus doctors operate for whatever gender someone with pais is going to be...

I looked up this condition, so what your saying is your born with an underdeveloped penis

 

[justagirl12]

Transphobia is common for nearly all social groups so it isn't surprising that churches would also freak out that someone is wearing the wrong clothes. Churches aren't exactly known for being forward-thinking institutions, so they'll likely hold on to their transphobia long after society has moved beyond it (to whatever degree this happens).

And it makes sense I never really thought I was committing a sin or seemingly doing it there. I guess I hoped they'd look pass it.

 

[phishin4min]

I'm guessing the doctors who had first hand look at what was between your legs, and the experience of what was trying to occur, but had trouble in the process (genetics) decided you had more boy parts than girl and did their best to finish the process, much like they give someone a prostetic arm were one failed to fully develop.........I'm only guessing but this underdeveloped penis thing probably really made you wonder if you really were supposed to be a boy, I can imagine how difficult that kind of thing could be on a young boy

 

[Ernst Junger]

Be obedient to your father, especially on an issue as trivial as "how sexy you look... in church".

 

[justagirl12]

yeah one of the things more than just that but I don't think anyone here on this forum wants to discuss how their genital appear looked at birth...

 

[phishin4min]

yeah one of the things more than just that but I don't think anyone here on this forum wants to discuss how their genital appear looked at birth...

your the one who brought up your condition, were just trying to understand where your coming from, I had an older friend who had confided he was born with a condition called micropenis, but still managed to produce four kids, so what ever your dealt with, I would say try to make the best of it

 

[justagirl12]

I'm a prude stop it. I never dress like that at church I was always respectful of that...

And yea I said people with pais grade is almost always reared male. Some do become female though. And it doesn't change the fact that my physical body naturally appears females without hormones. I accept that and present the best way I know...

 

[Cute Tink]

Perhaps if you could give a little more explanation on how this condition applies to you, we could have a better understanding what you are going through. So far, it seems like you are giving explanation that you understand and perhaps are overestimating our ability to comprehend it. I'm not suggesting graphic detail, but a more thorough explanation might go a long way to help us.

 

[justagirl12]

your the one who brought up your condition, were just trying to understand where your coming from, I had an older friend who had confided he was born with a condition called micropenis, but still managed to produce four kids, so what ever your dealt with, I would say try to make the best of it

yeah having kids really has nothing to do with anything.


Do you have the same body as you did as a newborn?


I certainly don't there's more to sex and gender than one's privates...

Ok now I got the answer long time ago... I get why they didn't want me to go I understand now because of that part I just skipped over it since it doesn't apply. But I should have realized they didn't know my past or anything like that... So thread answered.

 

[justagirl12]

Perhaps if you could give a little more explanation on how this condition applies to you, we could have a better understanding what you are going through. So far, it seems like you are giving explanation that you understand and perhaps are overestimating our ability to comprehend it. I'm not suggesting graphic detail, but a more thorough explanation might go a long way to help us.

if you have questions ask them. How is my explanation not thorough enough?

 

[good brother]

if you have questions ask them. How is my explanation not thorough enough?

You said you have grade 2 PAIS. According to the definition I found it's not much more than the meatus being on the bottom side of the penis instead of the end. There is a simple surgery to stitch one hole and make another. If that's not an adequate definition of your condition, please let us know so that we actually can talk to you about what you are facing instead of making all sorts of assumptions about you whcih make you mad.

In Christ, GB

 

[Cute Tink]

if you have questions ask them. How is my explanation not thorough enough?

Because I don't have PAIS and I have no experience with it. Neither does anyone else who is responding to your topic. Frankly, I had never heard of it before this morning. I have no frame of reference to help with the issue. If we were face to face, you would see the same look on my face that I see when I start explaining computer issues to my children.

When the topic started, you seemed to imply that you were born with male parts and then said the doctor essentially gave them to you, yet later you developed a more female appearance outside of your pelvic region. I have no clue what that first part really means. Was it a could-have-gone-either-way situation and the doctor and your parents chose male while your body later responded in a more female way?

I am on your side here and yet I feel as though I am getting the same defensive reaction as those who would criticize you. This is not going to aide in communication.

 

[Paradoxum]

Well I am generally quite liberal, but I sort of have a problem with men dressing in dresses. I don't hate it, but I naturally find it quite weird. I guess that's because I'm a product of my society. It's a hard thing to overcome. Morally there doesn't seem to be any good reason why cross-dressing would be wrong.... unless not wanting to weird people out is a good reason.

I mean no offence, I'm just being honest. I find your condition very interesting... though you probably don't want to be perceived as 'interesting', so sorry about that.

 

[Prayer Circle]

I don't go to Church ever since I was 14. I dress in my own style. Suites and tuxedos look just ugly I could never wear one. I am more the type to wear jeans and t-shirt to be neutral that's as masculine I am with clothing. I always wear make up and when dressing for occasions I wear skirts and high heels. I had long hair back then. As I always did as a child. I always have been perceieved as female. I don't consider myself male or female but family and friends always call me Jack and reffer to me as a 'he'. At church they thought I was a 'boy' but never would say so myself. Anyway when I was 14 I started occasionally wearing skirt and make up noticeably. And my dad was told I needed to dress properly or not attend because it made many feel uncomfortable. I don't get where GOD says guys girls or anyone has to dress any way according to gender standards... Why is it not accepted? why can't churches focus on religion not societal structures?

Well you know, the Bible says God said he can not be found in temples, or buildings built by men. That as he is creator of all things, he is found everywhere and most importantly, within one's self.

So, I would say, don't ever let the sinfull arrogance of men/women preclude you from entering into a church.

Those that stepped forward and gave your father an ultimatum are not of God. And woe unto them come the judgment.

Take that experience, and instead of letting it break you, as they intended by their sinful act,and learn from it and grow stronger in your sense of self by the example they provided in what shame manifests in one so shameful.

Find a church that is open to you, where you feel, when you walk in the door, as if you've come home. Because that building is not where God dwells, it is where people committed to honoring the spirit of God commune and come together as a family of God. Giving praise to that spirit, together.

UU churches, Unitarian Universalist, are wonderful communities that are open hearted and the shining example of God's truth.
God, in the meantime, is what you bring to the church when you walk through the door.

And anyone who bars your entrance, because their bias finds you not to be approved as the image and likeness of the most high that created you, is someone you should take note of and learn from. Becuase if you were less in touch with the God inside you, you'd look just like them.

God's peace abide your steps, always.

 

[justagirl12]

gynencomastia at a large amount is not normal for a male neither are other things that come with puberty and not actually are present at birth. And neither is cryptorchidism all that usual. Boys and girls actually look the same genderwise until puberty is reached. So this what your born stuff really become invalid by 12.


I won't post back for a while because I'm going to be reading it all over... A lot of posts I wasn't posting to

 

[phishin4min]

gynencomastia at a large amount is not normal for a male neither are other things that come with puberty and not actually are present at birth. And neither is cryptorchidism all that usual. Boys and girls actually look the same genderwise until puberty is reached. So this what your born stuff really become invalid by 12.


I won't post back for a while because I'm going to be reading it all over... A lot of posts I wasn't posting to

got any laymans terms to helps us out, or are we suppossed to constantly google everything and try to read between the lines of what your trying to tell us

 

[justagirl12]

Because I don't have PAIS and I have no experience with it. Neither does anyone else who is responding to your topic. Frankly, I had never heard of it before this morning. I have no frame of reference to help with the issue. If we were face to face, you would see the same look on my face that I see when I start explaining computer issues to my children.

When the topic started, you seemed to imply that you were born with male parts and then said the doctor essentially gave them to you, yet later you developed a more female appearance outside of your pelvic region. I have no clue what that first part really means. Was it a could-have-gone-either-way situation and the doctor and your parents chose male while your body later responded in a more female way?

I am on your side here and yet I feel as though I am getting the same defensive reaction as those who would criticize you. This is not going to aide in communication.

I'm sorry it's just I came to talk about the church and now it's focussed on this. I wouldn't have mentioned it if one of the pp wouldn't have said I was born both. I also saw a post on this pais here that's why I thought was ok to talk about it like maybe you were aware of it because of the previous thread... I kind of am defensive I guess because this thread wasn't about me in that manner...

But I have a question what if I were a girl and people just called me a 'he' but I dressed like a girl I mean how is that against anything?
No I appeared mostly male at birth. The dr changed certain things so I'd be what a typical guy is. When I grew up I just didn't get/accept treatment so I became female through puberty naturally.

 

[Jase]

whats really happening is your being decieved, drop your pants look at your genitals and then become what God has made you. He made them male and female......Its not accepted because God doesn't like it! if you really love God you would want to live your life to please Him

Try googling intersex. I guess God made a mistake. Didn't take you long to get on the judgmental bandwagon I see though.