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Why is Christianity opposed to the theory of Evolution?

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laurie2777

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he understanding of evolution is essential when it comes to the advancement of modern medicine. There are people who try to get creationism into the science classroom. These people have lost in court on several occasions. It's a complete waste of time. There is a reason to care when people try to put something that is not science in the science classroom. You're free to believe what you want but it is not allowed to be taught in biology.

What you said is an opinion. Everything evolutionists say or believe they insist are facts.. because they agree with what someone or persons believe to be true. There are Christian scientists as well and Christians physicians too.. I went to a church for years (pointed in that direction by my doctor) that had several doctors and many professionals..even local politicians. And before you say it.. no they were not members for appearance sake.

Believe it or not.. Christians are like any other group of people. There are some poor, some uneducated, some rich and some very very well educated. My son for one, holds two degrees.. one being an mba and his wife was a high school teacher for years (science) and now has gone back to college to further her education.. Both are firm believers but were not always. She certainly wasn't but instead was an atheist born and raised in China.. She came to the states in her late 30's with no intentions of believing anything other than what she was taught to be true all her life.. No God, Christians are dangerous and crazy and Americans are pigs.

Ask her if she holds to that now.
 
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food4thought

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Even if the first life form were created by a miracle instead of forming from natural reactions, that would not rule out evolution afterwards.

But lets think about the rate of evolution. Say a given gene mutation takes about 200 generations to take over a population, when actively selected for. Say at any one time there are about 3 beneficial mutations working their way into the whole population. Say a generation among evolving proto-humans is 15 years. Then in a million years one could accumulate . . . hmmm . . . 3 times 1 million divided by 15 divided by 200 . . . a thousand beneficial mutations.

I see no reason why there could not be 10 or 20 beneficial mutations working into a population at any one time.


Because you just made those numbers up. From what I remember, the actual measured numbers don't add up. I wish I had saved the link.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I'm a Christian who embraces evolution. I don't embrace Darwinist evolution though.

And I believe in motion, just not Newtonian motion; there's no evidence that an object in motion stays in motion unless acted upon by an unbalanced force. And all the evidence people think there is to support this is just a product of their fertile imagination.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Loudmouth

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One example would be the rate of beneficial mutations needed for just the difference between us and our nearest ancestors... from what I understand the rate of beneficial mutations currently measured cannot bring about the kind of changes we see between humans and apes in the time frame that paleontology suggests (no, I don't remember where I heard this).

Just for giggles, let's actually do the math with some rounded off figures. Scientists have actually sequenced the genomes of two parents and one of their children. From those experiments we know that each human is born with about 50 mutations. We also know that human generation times are 25 years or so. When we look at the chimp genome we see that there are 40 million mutations that separate our genomes. If we assume that half of those mutations happen in each lineage, that is 20 million mutations in the human lineage since common ancestry, which most scientists put at 5 million years before present.

If we go with a small human population of just 100,000 individuals through that 5 million year stretch, that is 5 million mutations per generation. In 5 million years, that is 200,000 generations. 5 million mutations per generation for 200,000 generations is 1 trillion mutations that did occur in the human lineage.

As stated before, we only kept 20 million of those mutations, or just 0.002% of the mutations that did occur. Again, these are just the mutations that were kept in the human lineage. Of the mutations that were kept, a large proportion are neutral mutation. If we double the portion of the genome that shows evidence of selectable function, we are still only talking about 20% of the genome where beneficial mutations could occur. Of the mutations that occur in the portion of the genome with selectable function, not even all of those need to be beneficial. So we are really talking about a tiny, tiny percentage of the mutations that did occur had to be beneficial, well below the number of mutations that did occur.

Looking at my math, I really don't understand how the needed mutations couldn't have occurred.

But for me it's not so much about the evidence that causes me to doubt macro-evolution as it is about the lack of evidence for abiogenesis...

Then why don't you doubt the rest of science? Using your logic, without abiogenesis we wouldn't have bacterial species like S. aureus or B. anthracis, so we can't have a Germ Theory of Disease without abiogenesis. Do you reject the scientific theory that explains infectious diseases?

if we cannot demonstrate how life could come from non-life, we are left with the need to account for it by some other way... aside from natural processes, that probably means a designer (I can't think of any other options).

How would that change our theory on how life changed once it did come about? The theory of evolution no more needs abiogenesis than the germ theory of disease.

If life in general requires a designer, then why do I need a theory, one that happens to cause problems with my understanding of my Scripture, to account for the diversity of life when I can account for it just fine with a designer?

Evolution deals with how life changes, not how life comes about.

Just to be clear, I do not doubt that life changes over time (even the bible recognizes that), but I do doubt that all the biodiversity we see today descended from one simple cell some 4 billion years ago.

The problem is that doubt has not scientific support. It seems to be founded entirely on misrepresentations that creationists have fed you.
 
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Loudmouth

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And I believe in motion, just not Newtonian motion; there's no evidence that an object in motion stays in motion unless acted upon by an unbalanced force. And all the evidence people think there is to support this is just a product of their fertile imagination.

-CryptoLutheran

We also don't know where gravity came from, so we have to throw out the scientific theory of gravity. ;)
 
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justlookinla

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And I believe in motion, just not Newtonian motion; there's no evidence that an object in motion stays in motion unless acted upon by an unbalanced force. And all the evidence people think there is to support this is just a product of their fertile imagination.

-CryptoLutheran

You apparently aren't familiar with the scientific method.
 
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JonFromMinnesota

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What you said is an opinion. Everything evolutionists say or believe they insist are facts..

You're saying modern medicine isn't dependent on the theory of evolution? Have you ever gotten a flu shot? Ever wonder why you need to get another one every so often? Because the virus evolves. HIV research is dependent on the theory of evolution. New drugs are tested on rats. Do you think they test on rats just for giggles? No it's because the rat and human genome are 85% similar.

There are Christian scientists as well and Christians physicians too.

Did I say there weren't? Of course there are many scientists that are also Christian. There isn't a rule that you must reject God to be a scientist. There are also many Christians and scientists that are Christian who accept the theory of evolution. Ever heard of Francis Collins? He is a devout Christian and a well respected geneticist. He worked on the human genome project. If you're interested in reading about a theistic evolution world view, I would suggest his book, "The Language of God"

"As someone who's had the privilege of leading the human genome project, I've had the opportunity to study our own DNA instruction book at a level of detail that was never really possible before. It's also now been possible to compare our DNA with that of many other species. The evidence supporting the idea that all living things are descended from a common ancestor is truly overwhelming. I would not necessarily wish that to be so, as a Bible-believing Christian. But it is so. It does not serve faith well to try to deny that"- Francis Collins.
 
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bhsmte

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You're saying modern medicine isn't dependent on the theory of evolution? Have you ever gotten a flu shot? Ever wonder why you need to get another one every so often? Because the virus evolves. HIV research is dependent on the theory of evolution. New drugs are tested on rats. Do you think they test on rats just for giggles? No it's because the rat and human genome are 85% similar.



Did I say there weren't? Of course there are many scientists that are also Christian. There isn't a rule that you must reject God to be a scientist. There are also many Christians and scientists that are Christian who accept the theory of evolution. Ever heard of Francis Collins? He is a devout Christian and a well respected geneticist. He worked on the human genome project. If you're interested in reading about a theistic evolution world view, I would suggest his book, "The Language of God"

"As someone who's had the privilege of leading the human genome project, I've had the opportunity to study our own DNA instruction book at a level of detail that was never really possible before. It's also now been possible to compare our DNA with that of many other species. The evidence supporting the idea that all living things are descended from a common ancestor is truly overwhelming. I would not necessarily wish that to be so, as a Bible-believing Christian. But it is so. It does not serve faith well to try to deny that"- Francis Collins.

I have used Collins as an example numerous times, because he is a devout Christian and a well respected scientist.

From fundies, the responses I typically get are; Collins is being led by Satan, Collins is just going along with other scientists to be accepted, or, Collins is not a true Christian.
 
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justlookinla

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You're saying modern medicine isn't dependent on the theory of evolution? Have you ever gotten a flu shot? Ever wonder why you need to get another one every so often? Because the virus evolves. HIV research is dependent on the theory of evolution. New drugs are tested on rats. Do you think they test on rats just for giggles? No it's because the rat and human genome are 85% similar.

This tired old claim is presented over and over, but has no basis. Development of modern medicine isn't dependent upon the guesses and suppositions of Darwinism that only random, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless naturalistic mechanisms produced all life we observe today from an alleged single life form (unknown) of long ago. Modern medicine is developed not by random, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless processes but by planned, goal oriented, processes. The development of modern medicine discards Darwinism in favor of a process based on the scientific method.
 
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justlookinla

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I have used Collins as an example numerous times, because he is a devout Christian and a well respected scientist.

From fundies, the responses I typically get are; Collins is being led by Satan, Collins is just going along with other scientists to be accepted, or, Collins is not a true Christian.

I love it when atheists bring up Collins. Collins is completely against Godless evolution. Simply read the "about us" section of www.biologos.org.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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If you have cardiac health issues, do you seek out an orthopedic physician, or a cardiologist?

I'd say by your own reasoning: electrical engineers know more about electromagnetic waves than astronomers do. I'd say Plasma Physicists also know more about Plasma Physics then astronomers do too. So then why do you keep going to astronomers and cosmologists instead of the electrical engineers and plasma physicists in a universe we all know is 99% Plasma?
 
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But for me it's not so much about the evidence that causes me to doubt macro-evolution as it is about the lack of evidence for abiogenesis... if we cannot demonstrate how life could come from non-life, we are left with the need to account for it by some other way... aside from natural processes, that probably means a designer (I can't think of any other options). If life in general requires a designer, then why do I need a theory, one that happens to cause problems with my understanding of my Scripture, to account for the diversity of life when I can account for it just fine with a designer?

Leaving aside the issue of whether or not a "designer" actually does solve any problems, my thinking on this is that if you do not yet know the answer to a question that the best course of action is to keep trying to find out, rather than deciding that you'd rather fill in the blank with whatever you choose, regardless of whether or not it's actually true.
 
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JonFromMinnesota

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I love it when atheists bring up Collins. Collins is completely against Godless evolution. Simply read the "about us" section of www.biologos.org.

Biologos does not support your position.

"In recent decades, scientists have discovered more about the beginnings of humanity. The fossil record shows a gradual transition over 5 million years ago from chimpanzee-size creatures to hominids with larger brains who walked on two legs. Later hominids used fire and stone tools and had brains as large as modern humans. Fossils of homo sapiens in east Africa date back nearly 200,000 years. Humans developed hearths for fire, stone points for spears and arrows, and cave paintings by 30,000 years ago. By 10,000 years ago, humans had spread throughout the globe. Genetic studies support the same picture. Humans share more DNA with chimpanzees than with any other animal, suggesting that humans and chimps share a relatively recent common ancestor. Also, the same defective genes appear in both humans and chimps, at the same locations in the genome—an observation difficult to explain except by common ancestry"

https://biologos.org/common-questio...c-evidence-do-we-have-about-the-first-humans/
 
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Loudmouth

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Which human species? What criteria are you using?

I am using physical characteristics, and I am putting them in separate species from living species, human or ape. I base this on the criteria that they don't fall within the observed variation of those living species.

What species are you putting them in, and why?
 
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Justatruthseeker

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You're saying modern medicine isn't dependent on the theory of evolution? Have you ever gotten a flu shot? Ever wonder why you need to get another one every so often? Because the virus evolves. HIV research is dependent on the theory of evolution. New drugs are tested on rats. Do you think they test on rats just for giggles? No it's because the rat and human genome are 85% similar.

Because you ignore observations of the natural world. Asian mates with Asian and produces an Asian (with small variation). Asian mates with African and Produces an Afro-Asian (with large variation). Now the virus is the same as the Asian's in this scenario - because unlike humans - have both strands of chromosomes capable of being passed on. So they like humans vary naturally every time those DNA strands are copied - either in bacteria both together copied into new strands, or humans copied one from each into new strands.

In most cases you mistake dominant and recessive as a mutation, because we now call a mutation any permanent change. Yet these occur naturally. Mutations are damage.

So why you think bacteria and viruses will not show the variation we see among infraspecific taxa of a species - is beyond me? It's a natural occurrence we observe with every birth, unrelated to mutations which are damage. But we all understand they are still the same species. Just as E coli mutated billions of times over billions of generations leads in the end to E coli. Just E coli with new dominant and recessive traits that already existed within the genome and developed naturally. What they don't tell you in the PR is that without the multiple strains that without those backups in real life, would of caused the extinction of the E coli species in our experiment. But it's a good thing an intelligent designer was behind the experiment - keeping it alive and going...
 
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Loudmouth

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I'd say by your own reasoning: electrical engineers know more about electromagnetic waves than astronomers do. I'd say Plasma Physicists also know more about Plasma Physics then astronomers do too. So then why do you keep going to astronomers and cosmologists instead of the electrical engineers and plasma physicists in a universe we all know is 99% Plasma?

Why do creationists keep going to non-biologists to find opinions on a biological theory?
 
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laurie2777

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You're saying modern medicine isn't dependent on the theory of evolution? Have you ever gotten a flu shot? Ever wonder why you need to get another one every so often? Because the virus evolves. HIV research is dependent on the theory of evolution. New drugs are tested on rats. Do you think they test on rats just for giggles? No it's because the rat and human genome are 85% similar.

Still you are saying you're beliefs are facts based on what other persons believe. What you just said can be easily be refuted. I won't go down that path because all will happen is you will get evidence you believe ..then I would and on and on.

It says in the Bible that man will never find indisputable proof (scientific) of His existence or non existence. If you want to know why, look it up. Man has not proven that we came from nothing and he never will. But anyone can say anything and claim it as fact.
 
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