Why is Christ not dead / in Hell

[Inkfingers]

Jesus is so much more than us, a minute of his time is worth 500,000 eternitys for a normal person.

That's irrelevant though.

He was supposed to pay the full price of sin, which is, as I said, Dead-no-return, or Lake of fire forever.

Nothing changes that price. If all he did was spend three days in Sheol that is NOT comparable at all in any way.

 

[Landon Caeli]

That's irrelevant though.

He was supposed to pay the full price of sin, which is, as I said, Dead-no-return, or Lake of fire forever.

Nothing changes that price. If all he did was spend three days in Sheol that is NOT comparable at all in any way.

That's like saying an ounce of gold is equal to an ounce of wood... Because It's an ounce.

 

[συνείδησις]

Eternal death or eternal suffering (depending on which interpretation you hold to) is the FULL price of sin that WE would have to pay.

If Christ instead paid the FULL price of sin, he should either be permanently dead or waiting for the lake of fire - otherwise he has not paid the full price of sin which would otherwise have to pay ourselves.

Again, Christ was judged under the law for the false charge of blasphemy. The penalty for that sin was physical death, which was executed. He was completely innocent of those charges, so death couldn't hold him.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Again, Christ was judged under the law for the false charge of blasphemy. The penalty for that sin was physical death, which was executed. He was completely innocent of those charges, so death couldn't hold him.

Right. He went to hell only because he was human, and that's where all humans went. But being also God, he was able to leave there, thus breaking the chains...

Realistically, did he pay anything? Or did he destroy the binders of hell?

...I think he went to hell to destroy. And in doing so, he fulfilled the prophesies.

 

[paul1149]

He was supposed to pay the full price of sin, which is, as I said, Dead-no-return, or Lake of fire forever.

You commit some act of negligence that causes one of my buildings to collapse. It causes $10M damage. I sue you, you cannot pay, so the judge sends you to debtor's prison. Your rich uncle hears of it, and pays the debt. You are free, because there are no longer grounds to keep you. Does you uncle now have to serve your prison term?

 

[amariselle]

Eternal death or eternal suffering (depending on which interpretation you hold to) is the FULL price of sin that WE would have to pay.

If Christ instead paid the FULL price of sin, he should either be permanently dead or waiting for the lake of fire - otherwise he has not paid the full price of sin which would otherwise have to pay ourselves.

I encourage you to do some careful Bible study on this matter. You have an incorrect view on the sufficiency of Christ’s sacrifice for sin.

 

[teresa]

difficult question to think through, thanks for asking it

 

[Inkfingers]

That's like saying an ounce of gold is equal to an ounce of wood... Because It's an ounce.

Erm, no, it's pointing out that the price is either ENDLESS DEATH or ENDLESS TORTURE and that Christ received NEITHER.

The idea of Christ paying the price for sin is that he pays the actual price, as in the price WE pay, otherwise he's got a discount and not paid the FULL price.

 

[Loren T.]

That's irrelevant though.

He was supposed to pay the full price of sin, which is, as I said, Dead-no-return, or Lake of fire forever.

Nothing changes that price. If all he did was spend three days in Sheol that is NOT comparable at all in any way.

That's not all he did. He took the burden of every sin that would ever be committed on himself. That's a worse punishment than being in hell forever. We only pay the price for our sins, not everyones.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Then he did not pay the full price of sin.

The full price of sin is either:

1) dead dead, no save, no reboot, no second chances, format c:

2) eternity in the eternal fire

Three days in Hell/Sheol is NOT the full price of sin.



That's besides the point though (see above).



Again, see above.

So are you going to tell our Father that the price Jesus paid is not the full price for sin?

 

[RDKirk]

Right. He went to hell only because he was human, and that's where all humans went. But being also God, he was able to leave there, thus breaking the chains...

Realistically, did he pay anything? Or did he destroy the binders of hell?

...I think he went to hell to destroy. And in doing so, he fulfilled the prophesies.

Yes.

Jesus truly died the first death that a man can die. That was Adam's penalty, and that was paid.

But since He is mightier than death, He came back.

 

[RDKirk]

That's irrelevant though.

He was supposed to pay the full price of sin, which is, as I said, Dead-no-return, or Lake of fire forever.

Nothing changes that price. If all he did was spend three days in Sheol that is NOT comparable at all in any way.

The full price of sin that we inherit from Adam is physical death. But we don't fear those who can only kill the body. What we fear is death of body and soul--the eternal second death. The eternal second death is the fate of those who will not have faith in Christ.

You are arguing that Jesus must suffer the eternal second death, but that was never case.

 

[RaymondG]

Okay, this is one that vexes me.

If the price of sin is either eternal death, or eternal suffering in the lake of fire (depending on which interpretation you go with), and Jesus paid the full price of sin, why then is Jesus not either:

1) eternally dead

2) waiting to go into the lake of fire for all eternity

If the price of sin is either eternal death, or eternal suffering in the lake of fire (as I said, depending on which interpretation you go with), and Jesus paid the FULL price of sin, he should then be in one of those two conditions.



The only reason I can think that he would not be in one of those conditions is if:

a) he did not pay the full price of sin but was let off part of the bill (cue track playing opening chords of O Fortuna)

b) The Father chooses to end the sentence of sin prematurely (which opens the gates to a potential universalism as regards salvation - ie: all end up being saved in the end)

It CANNOT be that Jesus gets a reduced sentence on account of being sinless, as that would mean he does not pay the FULL price of sin.

Thoughts?

The price for our sin is eternal damnation. Jesus came and paid the price and conquered death and hell. He did this to show us the way to salvation.....Jesus is the way. If we do what he did/says, we too will conquer death and hell. He was the example to follow.

More specifically, there is a way of escape, a door....and Jesus came to show us where it is. I am the door. We can choose to escape to eternal life, or remain destined for eternal damnation.

He that liveth and believe in me, shall never die, believerh thou this?

 

[Inkfingers]

The full price of sin that we inherit from Adam is physical death. But we don't fear those who can only kill the body. What we fear is death of body and soul--the eternal second death. The eternal second death is the fate of those who will not have faith in Christ.

You are arguing that Jesus must suffer the eternal second death, but that was never case.

The full price of sin is either endless death or endless torture (that being the price WE pay).

 

[Landon Caeli]

Erm, no, it's pointing out that the price is either ENDLESS DEATH or ENDLESS TORTURE and that Christ received NEITHER.

The idea of Christ paying the price for sin is that he pays the actual price, as in the price WE pay, otherwise he's got a discount and not paid the FULL price.

Jesus went and flipped hell upside down, with an iron fist. He had no respect for "rules" in hell. Why do you think Jesus should respect Satans rules?

 

[Inkfingers]

So are you going to tell our Father that the price Jesus paid is not the full price for sin?

That sounds like the kind of thing that mafia muscle would say whilst cracking his knuckles...

Either the full price of sin is eternal death/torture or not.

If its, Jesus did not pay it. If it isn't, why do we pay it?

 

[Landon Caeli]

The full price of sin is either endless death or endless torture (that being the price WE pay).

Show me your scripture for "full" price of sin. Nobody ever said Jesus had to pay any "full" price... Jesus set's the price.

 

[Inkfingers]

Jesus went and flipped hell upside down, with an iron fist. He had no respect for "rules" in hell. Why do you think Jesus should respect Satans rules?

I'm quoting God's rules not Satan's.

 

[Inkfingers]

Show me your scripture for "full" price of sin. Nobody ever said Jesus had to pay any "full" price... Jesus set's the price.

Did Jesus pay only part of the price....?

 

[paul1149]

The idea of Christ paying the price for sin is that he pays the actual price, as in the price WE pay, otherwise he's got a discount and not paid the FULL price.

Honestly, it seems to me that you have your belief and have no interesting in listening to anyone. I'll try one more time. You're dying of starvation. You cannot afford your next meal. A man comes along and pays for your meal. Does he now have to starve in your place?

You need to understand the difference between consequences and price. We couldn't pay the price, so we paid the consequences. Christ paid the price in full, so there are no more consequences. There was no need for Him to stay dead, because He was without sin the whole time. Once our price was paid, His task was accomplished.