- May 17, 2014
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Rubbish, the price is either eternal death or eternity in the lake of fire (depending on interpretation).
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There never was a set price. The only "price" is what God says it is, and was fulfilled for whatever it was.
I haven't browbeaten anyone.
I'm waiting for someone to actually address the point I've made rather than their own tangential version of it which ignores what I've said.
Rubbish, the price is either eternal death or eternity in the lake of fire (depending on interpretation).
There's no point to address if you haven't yet established it. All that has happened so far is you've created an OP containing a challenge to others to consider your unfounded assertions (and supposed dilemma). The onus is on you; you've made the initial assertion, and you have to establish it FIRST for us to fully consider it. It's not our responsibility to dismantle a conclusion that is not clearly founded---i.e. your simple presentation of assertions ABOUT the Bible "don't cut it."
It's possible you're conflating "eternal" with a concept that is not actually in the scriptures.I'm waiting for someone to actually address the point I've made rather than their own tangential version of it which ignores what I've said.
It's possible you're conflating "eternal" with a concept that is not actually in the scriptures.
So the price of sin is not either eternal death / torture? That's a whole other thread in itself. Here I'm taking the standard line that the price is one of those two things.
Do you take the bible to mean that "price" is a form of payment? Like money?
Right, you are not making any attempt to answer my question but are just posting bizarre comments. Kindly toddle off and do it someplace else.
Why won't people address this problem head on? Why do they insist on trying to reframe the questions in their own tangent that ignores the questions being asked?
I'll spell it out real simple like.
1) The price of sin is either eternal death (annihilation) or eternal torture in the lake of fire (depending on which interpretation you hold to) - that is the price WE pay for sin
2) Scripture says Jesus paid the price of sin for us
3) Jesus is not either eternally dead or eternally in the lake of fire
So....
Either:
a) Jesus did not pay the full price, he only paid part of it (in which case he did NOT pay the price for sin)
or
b) The Father intends to let everyone off the hook the same way (and the price is not really eternal death / torture after all).
Which is it?
So the price of sin is not either eternal death / torture? That's a whole other thread in itself. Here I'm taking the standard line that the price is one of those two things.
You don't get to offer proposition 1 without establishing it from Scripture
you've made up a false dilemma
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life--that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you sent.
Note carefully how Jesus defines "eternal life" and note he does not equate it to a period of time but a state of being.
The opposite of eternal life then, eternal death, is not about a period of time. It's complete separation from God.
Philosophically, eternity isn't really a time either.
So the point is to note that Jesus could suffer eternal death - separation - and yet be raised if he bridged that separation in the "price" (death) itself.
If "eternal" meant "forever" you would have a point. But does it? And what is "forever" anyway?
I believe if you want to engage by asking a good question, you ought to ask good questions of your own assumptions too. So you need to question what you mean by "eternal life" and provide a definition for the discussion.
If you already have a view and refuse to sway it, then why ask the question? You claimed earlier that no one was addressing your point, but everyone is.
The reality is that you either choose to believe Jesus paid for our sins and we have a chance to have a relationship with God, or he didn't pay for our sins and we have no chance of reaching Heaven to be with our Father.
If you already have a view and refuse to sway it, then why ask the question? You claimed earlier that no one was addressing your point, but everyone is.
The reality is that you either choose to believe Jesus paid for our sins and we have a chance to have a relationship with God, or he didn't pay for our sins and we have no chance of reaching Heaven to be with our Father.
No, they are not. They are trying to change the subject matter of the question and thus avoid what I'm asking.
And the price of sin, the price WE all would have to pay, is either eternal death or eternal torture (depending on which interpretation you go with). Jesus is not eternally dead and he isn't going in the lake of fire.
SO HOW CAN YOU SAY HE PAID THE PRICE WHEN HE DID NOT?
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